America - The Official Thread

[Zardoz]

Refresh my memory: What was Rumsfeld's original estimate of the cost?

He fired and demoted people who said it might cost half of this:

Half a trillion so far, and we're just getting dug in...

 

[Solid Fro]

The Opposition Party complained that the government didn't spend enough for the military (such as non-standard body armor, up-armored HMMWVs, night vision rifle scopes, etc.) and now they are complaining that we are spending too much?

Give me a ****in' break.

 

[///M-Spec]

Not a problem. No rush.

Good, because I'm about at the point of a post a week now. But back to the point...

Correct.
Yes.
Yes.
Sometimes -- almost rarely, actually.
Depends on the circumstances; but in general yes I would try to do right.

Okay, so you believe you're a good person. You try to do the right thing, even under external influence. That's cool... I think most people would answer the same way.

Next to last question: would you at any point in time, allow your job to influence your politcal views or keep you from looking at a topic or situation in the most objective way possible?


M

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Good, because I'm about at the point of a post a week now. But back to the point...

No problem.

Okay, so you believe you're a good person. You try to do the right thing, even under external influence. That's cool... I think most people would answer the same way.

Next to last question: would you at any point in time, allow your job to influence your politcal views

Absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I allow any job to influence my political views.

or keep you from looking at a topic or situation in the most objective way possible?

M

Definitely not.

 

[Duke]

No problem.

Absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I allow any job to influence my political views.

Definitely not.

Why do I suspect that you've somehow just played right into ///M-Spec's hands?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Why do I suspect that you've somehow just played right into ///M-Spec's hands?

Your suspicions are correct. I just want to see where he's going with it.

 

[Solid Fro]

Sorry to interrupt your regular scheduled program, but I just had to post this little video of a 77 year-old Iraqi voter. Betty Dawisha tells it like it is:

http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/12/13/gotohell/

There is no point to this. I will say this now: you won't see this on CNN.

 

[FoolKiller]

Sorry to interrupt your regular scheduled program, but I just had to post this little video of a 77 year-old Iraqi voter. Betty Dawisha tells it like it is:

http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/12/13/gotohell/

There is no point to this. I will say this now: you won't see this on CNN.

Wow!

[SARCASM] I don't know if she was clear enough in expressing her opinion.[/SARCASM]

 

[Diego440]

is there a part where she says "Thank you Mr. Bush for exterminating 30 thousand of my fellow countrymen"?

 

[Swift]

is there a part where she says "Thank you Mr. Bush for exterminating 30 thousand of my fellow countrymen"?

You can't be serious. Man....that was just weak. It's a war. People die in war. It's not cool or nice, but true.

 

[FoolKiller]

You can't be serious. Man....that was just weak. It's a war. People die in war. It's not cool or nice, but true.

Plus that kind of comment leads people to believe that they were killed by Americans.

 

[Diego440]

Plus that kind of comment leads people to believe that they were killed by Americans.

Are you suggesting they did a massive hara-kiri or something?

Swift, you're right, but it would lead us into the whole purpose of the thread, as if the past 50 pages had been for no use... the US started the war, not Iraq, blah blah blah

anyhow, how come there's no zoom out showing the surroundings? Because we'd see all the stage, ha!

 

[FoolKiller]

Are you suggesting they did a massive hara-kiri or something?

No, but most of them have been killed by the former Iraqi army during the initial conflict or insurgents since then.

I'm not saying American soldiers didn't cause some of the casualties but the majority of the ~30,000 was not by them.

 

[Swift]

No, but most of them have been killed by the former Iraqi army during the initial conflict or insurgents since then.

I'm not saying American soldiers didn't cause some of the casualties but the majority of the ~30,000 was not by them.

Exactly, it was other Iraqi militants. As I stated in my suicide bombers thread.

 

[///M-Spec]

Your suspicions are correct. I just want to see where he's going with it.

You sound like you've already figured that out.

Anyways, your original statement....

Relies more on corporate funding and less from the government than before. "Underwriting spots" are indistinguishable from commercials.

So how about it then? If you would never let a job stand between you and objectively viewing something and speaking up for what you believe in, then why would you assume the people at NPR would?


M

 

[MrktMkr1986]

So how about it then? If you would never let a job stand between you and objectively viewing something and speaking up for what you believe in, then why would you assume the people at NPR would?


M

One could surmise that because I'm still relatively young and have few financial obligations that I can "afford" to quit a job if I feel pressured politically.

Otherwise, I see your point -- and it's a very good one. You're right, though -- that assumption was a bit of a stretch.

 

[FoolKiller]

The media is not liberal... It's conservative.

While I hate to bring up a three week old argument a new report from researchers at UCLA disagree with you.

Media Bias Is Real, Finds UCLA Political Scientist

I am sure that you will disagree with their basis for their research based on your own point of view they base their data on the standard gauge for lawmakers support for liberal causes creatd by Americans for Democratic Action (ADA). The scale goes from 0 (ultra-conservative) to 100 (ultra-liberal) and rates points based on how how often a lawmaker votes on the liberal side of an issue. The current average Congressional score is 50.1 (that surprised me a bit).

According to their findings:

Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.

The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third.

"Our estimates for these outlets, we feel, give particular credibility to our efforts, as three of the four moderators for the 2004 presidential and vice-presidential debates came from these three news outlets — Jim Lehrer, Charlie Gibson and Gwen Ifill," Groseclose said. "If these newscasters weren't centrist, staffers for one of the campaign teams would have objected and insisted on other moderators."

The fourth most centrist outlet was "Special Report With Brit Hume" on Fox News, which often is cited by liberals as an egregious example of a right-wing outlet. While this news program proved to be right of center, the study found ABC's "World News Tonight" and NBC's "Nightly News" to be left of center. All three outlets were approximately equidistant from the center, the report found.

I found all this to be interesting if nothing else. I also liked that they ignored op-ed and editorial sections and focused only on reporting, something which most media research doesn't do.

 

[niky]

Criminy. I'm actually surprised at some of those results.

Maybe it's something to do with the mindset of the typical reporter. I've known a couple of people in political science and journalism in college, and it does attract its fair share of liberals and out-and-out leftists. (Propaganda is one of the basic weapons of the Communist movement... seriously.) Strange to see that the tilt is present even in the US.

Was going to ask if the results had anything to do with George being president for a lot of that time, (you'd expect the media to always be opposite the government, as the fourth estate) but if that covers the past ten years, Bill was in till 2001.



So... what now?

EDIT: yeah, it's interesting that the opinions of the editors are sometimes at odds with the slant of the paper. Re-read the methodology. It's very technical and difficult stuff, because the data used was collected manually by the research assistants. You never know, one item or another might have slipped through the cracks. And if you determine things by basing against politicians, how sure are you that US Dems aren't ever so slightly to the right of the left? Still, I give props to the research group, as I don't think anyone else has had the guts to tackle something like this.

 

[ledhed]

So lets talk about the Mormon Church and the massacre...a great exaample of the reason why a theocracy sucks...hmmmmm...or lets talk about the Mai lai massacre..or lets just talk about the words of Ezekiel......9.5-6


Go after him through the city and smite. Let not your eye spare , neither have ye pity;
slaughter old and young, both maids and little chidren.




No one is innocent . Except a new born babe ....yet they get slaughtered every day... some place ...or some how..all over .


religion can bite my ass.

with crap like this to draw on ...how can any one claim to be ....???? what ???? moral.... or...what the F#@&k ?????


Take some time to look around at all religions......




They all want us to exterminate each other in some way or just ..." convert ' the others....


Merry christmas ...

 

[JulesG]

at the moment im writing a dissertation on the american dream as a controversial issue...as exemplified in the life of andrew carnegie. this forum seems to me very promising...do you have any spontaneous thoughts on that? i would appreciate that very much. thanxx

 

[Disturbed07]

So lets talk about the Mormon Church and the massacre...a great exaample of the reason why a theocracy sucks...hmmmmm...or lets talk about the Mai lai massacre..or lets just talk about the words of Ezekiel......9.5-6


Go after him through the city and smite. Let not your eye spare , neither have ye pity;
slaughter old and young, both maids and little chidren.




No one is innocent . Except a new born babe ....yet they get slaughtered every day... some place ...or some how..all over .


religion can bite my ass.

with crap like this to draw on ...how can any one claim to be ....???? what ???? moral.... or...what the F#@&k ?????


Take some time to look around at all religions......




They all want us to exterminate each other in some way or just ..." convert ' the others....


Merry christmas ...

Actually, Christianity is pretty peaceful, with no smiting in sight, provided you believe in all of the changes it says Jesus made....Jesus changed everything in the new testament... He does a remarkable job of out-dating the old testament, being half-human, half-God, and not all God...What kind of religion wouldnt want everybody to believe it? What kind of God would accept people spitting in his face?, or denying his existence? Does a father not want his son to listen? does he not get angry when his son gives him an attitude?

 

[FoolKiller]

So lets talk about the Mormon Church and the massacre...a great exaample of the reason why a theocracy sucks...hmmmmm...or lets talk about the Mai lai massacre..or lets just talk about the words of Ezekiel......9.5-6


Go after him through the city and smite. Let not your eye spare , neither have ye pity;
slaughter old and young, both maids and little chidren.




No one is innocent . Except a new born babe ....yet they get slaughtered every day... some place ...or some how..all over .


religion can bite my ass.

with crap like this to draw on ...how can any one claim to be ....???? what ???? moral.... or...what the F#@&k ?????


Take some time to look around at all religions......




They all want us to exterminate each other in some way or just ..." convert ' the others....


Merry christmas ...

Ledhed, you have a very cynical view of religion. You and my brother would get along great. If you want you can PM me and I will give you the link to his blog so that you can read his belief manifesto that he just posted the last couple of days. He uses an argument much like yours, only more thought out and better described.

 

[Swift]

So lets talk about the Mormon Church and the massacre...a great exaample of the reason why a theocracy sucks...hmmmmm...or lets talk about the Mai lai massacre..or lets just talk about the words of Ezekiel......9.5-6


Go after him through the city and smite. Let not your eye spare , neither have ye pity;
slaughter old and young, both maids and little chidren.

LOL, I love it when people take scripture out of context. How about the preceding verse?

Ezekiel 9:4

And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

So there were people that were spared in this PARTICULAR instance.

Be careful when you just pluck versus out of the bible.

 

[ledhed]

I did not pick that verse . I quoted it from the book on the massacre by the Mormons . but you did help me make my point . All phyco religions full of fanatics take the verses they NEED to make the point they need made about killing the infidels or the heritics or the unclean or the jews or whomever. Its not just a Muslim or Christian thing. Religion is a tool for mind controll in the hands of those who would use it as such . Its not just Osama and his crew .

 

[Swift]

I did not pick that verse . I quoted it from the book on the massacre by the Mormons . but you did help me make my point . All phyco religions full of fanatics take the verses they NEED to make the point they need made about killing the infidels or the heritics or the unclean or the jews or whomever. Its not just a Muslim or Christian thing. Religion is a tool for mind controll in the hands of those who would use it as such . Its not just Osama and his crew .

Hmm....that's an interesting deduction.

So are you saying that all people with a strong faith are under mind control?

 

[Zardoz]

How credible is this story? :

Billion-dollar "bunker" embassy in Baghdad, and four permanent U.S. "superbases" in Iraq

Is it BS, or are we about to begin construction of our permanent garrison in Iraq?

 

[Diego440]

Hmm....that's an interesting deduction.

So are you saying that all people with a strong faith are under mind control?

isn't religion the opium of the masses?

 

[Solid Fro]

How credible is this story? :

Billion-dollar "bunker" embassy in Baghdad, and four permanent U.S. "superbases" in Iraq

Is it BS, or are we about to begin construction of our permanent garrison in Iraq?

You must be ****tin' me, Zardoz. The article's source is "A US source in the Middle East". How credible do you think it is?

Plus, isn't this the same Daily Mirror who called 60 million Americans "dumb"? Young_Warrior has more credibility than this tabloid.

 

[Diego440]

Plus, isn't this the same Daily Mirror who called 60 million Americans "dumb"? Young_Warrior has more credibility than this tabloid.

At least 60 million Americans must be dumb... [/sarcasm]

 

[FoolKiller]

isn't religion the opium of the masses?

It can be abused for that purpose. Although I rarely hear it referred to that way outside of socialist/marxist/communist circles. Some individuals feel that way without being any of those three, my brother being one.

I am sure Swift will disagree with you. A free thinking individual who interprets the Bible for himself and follows his heart can not be considered part of this kind of system.