America - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

Is the USA going it alone with its own 17ish% a bad thing?

It depends on their actions from here, those aren't clear. As you say:

Perhaps if the USA focuses on getting its own emissions under control without the input of other nations, it can come up with technologies to accelerate the reduction in other nations sooner than Paris mandates - it is, after all, a nation of the best and brightest and nearly three times as many Nobel Prizes as anyone else.

To your other questions:

Does the USA have to be in the Paris Agreement in order to reduce its CO2 emissions?

No, clearly not.

Will not being in it mean that the USA doesn't reduce its CO2 emissions?

On balance I think they will. Whether or not those reductions will match the Paris-agreed reductions in scale is as yet unknown.

 

[Famine]

So ultimately the initial reaction from May, Corbyn, Macron and others is an overreaction, and while it's probably better for the Paris Agreement that the USA is in it, it isn't necessarily worse for the planet or global emissions if the USA is not?


(Park life)

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I get that almost every other country reckons Paris is a good idea, but I don't get how it's automatically bad for any nation to not be in it - much less an incredibly advanced one.

I think the concern is that other nations will see America back out and say "well, if they're not going to do it, we're not going to do it either".

 

[McLaren]

From what I've been reading today, it's less about it being bad for the environment that we pulled out (phrasing) but more along the lines that it signals the US isn't interested in cooperating with other nations to solve the human contribution to damaging the environment.

I'm kind of on the fence about it, while I don't think it's all doom and gloom that we got out of the Paris Agreement, I don't think it was necessarily the best move. Whether humans are the reason for climate change or not, we are still doing a number to the environment by polluting the air, water, and soil. It'd be nice to see nations working together to figure out how to protect our environment rather than destroy large swaths of it. Plus I wonder about how this will affect scientific progress since many of those programs (at least in the US) are funded through government grants. By getting out of the agreement, I think it says that our focus isn't on protecting the environment and I feel that means the funding will dry up for research.

Isn't part of Trump's argument for pulling out that the US is contributing more to it financially than other countries, some of which contribute nothing?

I saw a couple figures thrown around, but they seemed a bit too outlandish (& potentially skewed) to believe true.

 

[Joey D]

Isn't part of Trump's argument for pulling out that the US is contributing more to it financially than other countries, some of which contribute nothing?

I saw a couple figures thrown around, but they seemed a bit too outlandish (& potentially skewed) to believe true.

I thought that was his argument for wanting to pull out of NATO? My understanding of him want to get out of the agreement was because it was somehow hurting the US economy and that the agreement was, in his words, "draconian".

But as far as I know with the Paris Agreement, financial contributions are voluntary and nations set their own emissions reduction. So really we were only "hurting" taxpayers because we were contributing money we didn't have to contribute in the first place.

I don't think we necessarily need the Paris Agreement to reduce emissions, but I think Trump has made it pretty clear that he has no interest in doing so. And unfortunately there's so much BS science going around that the consumer can't even make an informed choice to buy something that is environmentally friendly or at least environmentally responsible.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I see the Paris Agreement being less about actually reducing emissions and more about international powers working together to solve a problem that impacts the entire planet.

 

[fatkrakr]

Isn't part of Trump's argument for pulling out that the US is contributing more to it financially than other countries, some of which contribute nothing?

I saw a couple figures thrown around, but they seemed a bit too outlandish (& potentially skewed) to believe true.

Thats why all the other countries are crying. If the USA pulls out who is gonna foot the bill? Without American dollars this things dead in the water and the rest of the remaining countries know it because they sure as hell aint footing the bill.

 

[Joey D]

Thats why all the other countries are crying. If the USA pulls out who is gonna foot the bill? Without American dollars this things dead in the water and the rest of the remaining countries know it because they sure as hell aint footing the bill.

Other countries, the US pledged $3 billion and has only paid in $500 million as of March 3rd.

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2017/05/trump-paris-agreement/

Really in the grand scheme of things $3 billion isn't that much and I really doubt it was hurting taxpayers. While I don't necessarily agree with the spending, we throw money away (as a country) on things every day that are less meaningful then working to combat a global issue.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I thought that was his argument for wanting to pull out of NATO? My understanding of him want to get out of the agreement was because it was somehow hurting the US economy and that the agreement was, in his words, "draconian".

It was also his argument for getting out of the TPP.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Lets take a few minutes to hear Trump's reasons for pulling out of the Paris Accord, shall we.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Lets take a few minutes to hear Trump's reasons for pulling out of the Paris Accord, shall we.

He's made it pretty clear that he thinks the Paris Accord was deliberately designed to undermine American competition. He's previously spoken to the idea that the Chinese invented global warming to try and disrupt the American economy; he might not have brought it up since, but he hasn't backed away from it. Neither idea holds up under scrutiny.

 

[fatkrakr]

Next on the list is those trade deals.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Next on the list is those trade deals.

How, exactly, does cutting yourself off from the global community help you?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

He's made it pretty clear that he thinks the Paris Accord was deliberately designed to undermine American competition. He's previously spoken to the idea that the Chinese invented global warming to try and disrupt the American economy; he might not have brought it up since, but he hasn't backed away from it. Neither idea holds up under scrutiny.

I can't say that I have ever seen that, but I can't say that I disagree.

It seems every country wants to, in nearly every deal, gets the upper hand on the US. that might have been fine forty years ago, but it has taken it's toll.

Now we need help. We can no longer be the world's sugar daddy. Thank god we finally have a president that understands that.

 

[fatkrakr]

How, exactly, does cutting yourself off from the global community help you?

Where did I or he say that was the plan? I believe he has always said renegotiate the trade deals.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It seems every country wants to, in nearly every deal, gets the upper hand on the US.

Because you've made no attempt to plan your economy when they have.

I believe he has always said renegotiate the trade deals

With no bargaining power. Those economies don't need you to survive.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Because you've made no attempt to plan your economy when they have.

Planned economy? Planned by who? The central guberment? I would much rather help the market by voting with my dollars than having some government agency dictate crap.

Why plan the economy, when clearly the free market can do it much better? That has been the secret of America's success. The free market.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why plan the economy, when clearly the free market can do it much better?

Because thanks to your over-reliance on the free market, you have made no attempt to transition to a services or technology-based economy and are instead reliant on an uncompetitive manufacturing sector. You always just assumed that the free market forces would correct any imbalance, but basic Keyensian economics tells you that this is a faulty assumption. Planning your economy allows you to figure out where you are, where you want to be, and how best to get there. It also allows you to better respond to changes in the market.

That has been the secret of America's success.

Then why is nothing I own made in America? Other countries produce better-quality goods that are more affordable than anything made in America.

 

[Imari]

Most people realize the American Empire has too many military bases around the world pursuing unsustainable global wars and policies of regime change. On the other hand, a more attractive alternative is hard to imagine or put into words...

I'll take a stab. How about...not that first thing you said?

Most countries find it easy not to have too many military bases around the world pursuing unsustainable global wars and policies of regime change.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

For those, like me, unfamiliar with Parklife, it appears to be a London nostalgia video. I like it, but it will never replace Doo Wop!

You're unfamiliar with one of the greatest bands of the 90s...get out!

 

[UKMikey]

^I would suggest mentioning the "woo-hoo" song. Americans seemed to like that one the best.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Because thanks to your over-reliance on the free market, you have made no attempt to transition to a services or technology-based economy and are instead reliant on an uncompetitive manufacturing sector. You always just assumed that the free market forces would correct any imbalance, but basic Keyensian economics tells you that this is a faulty assumption. Planning your economy allows you to figure out where you are, where you want to be, and how best to get there. It also allows you to better respond to changes in the market.

Centrally planning your economy to try and predict anticipate an uncertain future for 350,000,000 people. Where have I heard that before comrade?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're unfamiliar with one of the greatest bands of the 90s...get out!

Song #2 sure

 

[Johnnypenso]

In some disturbing non-Trump news, Illinois, the fifth largest state economy most populous in the U.S., has had it's bonds downgraded to "near junk" status, due to ongoing budget gridlock, chronic deficits, underfunded pensions, a record backlog of bills that are equivalent to about 40 percent of its operating budget and a host of other problems.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...crisis-is-about-to-get-even-harder-to-resolve

 

[Joey D]

I can't say that I have ever seen that, but I can't say that I disagree.

It seems every country wants to, in nearly every deal, gets the upper hand on the US. that might have been fine forty years ago, but it has taken it's toll.

Now we need help. We can no longer be the world's sugar daddy. Thank god we finally have a president that understands that.

The Paris Agreement's contributions were completely voluntary and each country set their own financial limits. We weren't being a sugar daddy, we were voluntarily giving money away. If the US government though $3 billion was too much, then it could have easily reduced the amount.

And I wish the president also understood that war and conflict is one of the bigger reasons the country is hemorrhaging money.

Planned economy? Planned by who? The central guberment? I would much rather help the market by voting with my dollars than having some government agency dictate crap.

Why plan the economy, when clearly the free market can do it much better? That has been the secret of America's success. The free market.

The US isn't a free market, it's a mixed economy.

 

[fatkrakr]

With no bargaining power. Those economies don't need you to survive.

Guess will just have to wait and see about that wont we.

 

[Danoff]

Because thanks to your over-reliance on the free market, you have made no attempt to transition to a services or technology-based economy and are instead reliant on an uncompetitive manufacturing sector.

What? You're talking about the 9% of our economy that is based on manufacturing... where it is clearly competitive because it exists? And is growing? Do you know what the top manufactured product is in the US? Oil.

You always just assumed that the free market forces would correct any imbalance, but basic Keyensian economics tells you that this is a faulty assumption.

...and the US is heavily Keynesian... to its detriment. Our federal reserve and presidential and congressional financial policy can be described as nothing but Keynesian.

Planning your economy allows you to figure out where you are, where you want to be, and how best to get there. It also allows you to better respond to changes in the market.

...much slower than the actual market.

Then why is nothing I own made in America? Other countries produce better-quality goods that are more affordable than anything made in America.

Because our standard of living is too high to pay people to make stuff. How many times were you wrong in that one post? 6?

Edit:

Other things manufactured in the US that the world buys... pharmaceuticals and airplanes.

 

[CodeRedR51]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...657&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Nothing says guilty like trying to gag someone from testifying against you.

 

[DDastardly00]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN18T1WZ?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=59319abf04d301382d3e7657&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Nothing says guilty like trying to gag someone from testifying against you.

From your link, they said they would be watching (Comey's testimony) along with the rest of the world. It's seems the press made the gag implication since they brought it up.

I don't see how it would make sense to gag Comey anyway, all he can say is I ate dinner with Trump, during that dinner Trump suggested he would certainly like it if the investigation into Flynn was ended, and then I went home and wrote a memo about it.

All of that information has been out there for weeks anyway, there is really nothing new here.

 

[fatkrakr]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN18T1WZ?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=59319abf04d301382d3e7657&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Nothing says guilty like trying to gag someone from testifying against you.

Where does anyone from Trumps team say they are stopping him? OH YEA no where. What she said was we will be watching like the rest of the people when he does testify. The reporter brought up blocking testimony. Talk about twisting words.

 

[BobK]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...657&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Nothing says guilty like trying to gag someone from testifying against you.

Absolutely. Good thing that didn't happen then, isn't it?