America - The Official Thread

[Denur]

True Libertarians and Anarchist it seems.

This always is a source for confusion. I am a liberal in my country, which means that I am right wing and not religious. But I understand that in some countries that being liberal is as bad as being a communist. I am a liberal and hate, deeply, communism, with all of my heart. Damn, it is just as dispicable as religious fanatics (Osama, George W).

 

[Danoff]

Not really, I think the government should play a role in peoples lives.

What is the proper role of government in your mind?

Civilisation separates us from animals but culture does as well, another discussion though.

Ok, no comment on the point of my response though? That libertarianism!=anarchy....

If I was homosexual I couldn't marry my partner which is denying me a freedom others have, that's the best example I can give that isn't based on observations.

That's not really denying a freedom, but it's not equal protection under the law and as such, I'm all in favor of giving homosexuals to ability to have their marriage recognized by the state. But it doesn't prevent homosexuals from actually doing anything.

I'm an Atheist. How are my freedoms different than a Christian?

 

[Joey D]

Stop being so ridiculous. This kind of mentality perpetuates the problems of collectivism.

Because I don't see it your way I'm being ridiculous? Glad to see you have to resort it to a personal level.

What is the proper role of government in your mind?

To protect it's people, regulate resources and settle disputes. That's pretty much the reason government was started.

Ok, no comment on the point of my response though? That libertarianism!=anarchy....

Nope. I have my opinion on it and so do you, we aren't going to change each others mind.

That's not really denying a freedom, but it's not equal protection under the law and as such, I'm all in favor of giving homosexuals to ability to have their marriage recognized by the state. But it doesn't prevent homosexuals from actually doing anything.

Yes it does, there are many states in which it is illegal for homosexuals to wed or adopt kids. That is denying them freedoms others heterosexual people have.

I'm an Atheist. How are my freedoms different than a Christian?

This is only observable by me so therefore it doesn't count in the discussion.

 

[Danoff]

To protect it's people, regulate resources and settle disputes. That's pretty much the reason government was started.

You forgot "to enforce human rights". Regulating resources though, I could use a little more discussion about that one. Also, where does this statement:

I think the government should be responsible to provide for it's citizens to some extent.

...fit in the above description of the proper role of government? Protection?

Nope. I have my opinion on it and so do you, we aren't going to change each others mind.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of pure fact. Libertarians believe strongly that government is critical. They also believe as strongly in limits on that government. If you don't think government is necessary, you aren't a libertarian. It's that simple.

Yes it does, there are many states in which it is illegal for homosexuals to wed or adopt kids. That is denying them freedoms others heterosexual people have.

Denying them legal recognition is not denying them a freedom. Denying them the ability to adopt is (so that's one I'll give you), but it has nothing to do with gay marriage. Single people can adopt.

This is only observable by me so therefore it doesn't count in the discussion.

I'm wondering why you mentioned it then.

 

[Joey D]

You forgot "to enforce human rights". Regulating resources though, I could use a little more discussion about that one. Where does this statement:

No I didn't, human rights are different in different cultures.

And the government should manage resources, what more do you want me to say?

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of pure fact. Libertarians believe strongly that government is critical. They also believe as strongly in limits on that government. If you don't think government is necessary, you aren't a libertarian. It's that simple.

No it's a matter of opinion, I view the group in one light you view it in another. Libertarianism is in the direction of anarchy by taking the government out of things.

Denying them legal recognition is not denying them a freedom. Denying them the ability to adopt is, but it has nothing to do with gay marriage. Single people can adopt.

I have the freedom to marry a women but I do not, under my state law, have the freedom to marry a man. How is that not denying freedom?

 

[Swift]

Wrong, you can want to move really bad but sometimes you just can't. When I was in the UK I researched this a bit and in order to get the proper papers to live there you need a job, but you aren't allowed to look for a job under your 6 month visa. So the only way an American could go over there to live now would be to get hooked up with a company here that transfers your over there. I would have to imagine that other countries are like that.

I'll get to this in a minute

On this note what is so great about America? This is an honest question, what would make someone from another country want to live here?

you're kidding right?

Why don't you ask the 10 million+ ILLEGAL immigrants what's so much better about this country that they would risk so much to get here? That was a really, really ignorant question man.

could you tell me a bit about your history? Obviously you've lived in other places, so what were those places and how did you end up in America? And if you were a citizen of another country, why not go back?

Back to your first point. You said Europe, you didn't say Great Britain specifically in your original post. I have no clue what it takes to be an immigrant to Great Britain, but maybe their rules are there because the government doesn't think the country can support any more people from other countries. I'm sure a British or English member would know much better then me.

No it's a matter of opinion, I view the group in one light you view it in another. Libertarianism is in the direction of anarchy by taking the government out of things.

So that would mean conservatives are for anarchy as well. Since they believe in limited government as well. So you would put me in that same category.

What I'm starting to realize is that you're letting your personal experiences effect your philosophy of government. For the remainder of the conversation, try to take your previous experiences out of the picture and look at the philosophy with an objective mind.

 

[Joey D]

you're kidding right?

No it was an honest question, it wasn't meant to be a downer to America. I am just curious what makes this country so great?

Why don't you ask the 10 million+ ILLEGAL immigrants what's so much better about this country that they would risk so much to get here? That was a really, really ignorant question man.

Hmmm so I make ignorant statements which must me you are calling me ignorant, great behavior from a mod. I think it was a good question that I was hoping would spark some sort of discussion but apparently it didn't.

could you tell me a bit about your history? Obviously you've lived in other places, so what were those places and how did you end up in America? And if you were a citizen of another country, why not go back?

I've lived in Michigan for 20 years, both in an urban environment and a suburb one. I hate it here and I would like nothing more then to move away but I'm still in school and I don't think I have enough money to do so yet. One grandparent is Scottish, right off the boat if you will, and the other is English, off the boat as well. They have dual citizenship but continue to live here because this is where their children and grandchildren as...plus they are in their 70's.

Back to your first point. You said Europe, you didn't say Great Britain specifically in your original post. I have no clue what it takes to be an immigrant to Great Britain, but maybe their rules are there because the government doesn't think the country can support any more people from other countries. I'm sure a British or English member would know much better then me.

No I'm pretty sure I said the UK, I have no idea what it is like in other European countries but I have to imagine it is just as difficult. I was told by the customs official that gave me the third degree upon entering the country that they do not want to support anyone who comes their looking for a free ride...whether that is the main reason or not I don't know.

So that would mean conservatives are for anarchy as well. Since they believe in limited government as well. So you would put me in that same category.

The only thing I see conservatives for is holding the country back from progress. I don't care for them and I won't vote for one...and most of it stems largely from their religious involvement.

What I'm starting to realize is that you're letting your personal experiences effect your philosophy of government. For the remainder of the conversation, try to take your previous experiences out of the picture and look at the philosophy with an objective mind.

Wait, so you are telling me my personal experiences shouldn't affect how I view the government? That make no sense, your political views are shaped by who you are.

 

[Swift]

No it was an honest question, it wasn't meant to be a downer to America. I am just curious what makes this country so great?

The fact that you can go from having nothing to be successful, or choose to have nothing. It's a free society. You can be what you want, not what you were born into or raised in.

Hmmm so I make ignorant statements which must me you are calling me ignorant, great behavior from a mod. I think it was a good question that I was hoping would spark some sort of discussion but apparently it didn't.

Yep, it is excellent behavior for a mod. You are actually showing a better example of your ignorance. By your response it's difficult for me to think that you understand what ignorance means. It means you lack knowledge of a certain subject or area. Obviously, you know very little about immigration to this country. Or else you never would have asked a question about why tens of millions of people come to America. Legally and illegally.

I've lived in Michigan for 20 years, both in an urban environment and a suburb one. I hate it here and I would like nothing more then to move away but I'm still in school and I don't think I have enough money to do so yet. One grandparent is Scottish, right off the boat if you will, and the other is English, off the boat as well. They have dual citizenship but continue to live here because this is where their children and grandchildren as...plus they are in their 70's.

So you've never lived in another country yet? With your grandparents having dual citizenship, I'm willing to bet there is some kind of sponsorship program or something you could use.

No I'm pretty sure I said the UK, I have no idea what it is like in other European countries but I have to imagine it is just as difficult. I was told by the customs official that gave me the third degree upon entering the country that they do not want to support anyone who comes their looking for a free ride...whether that is the main reason or not I don't know.

Nope, you said Europe

I think I would be far better off in Europe, sure they pay a lot of tax, but at the same time many countries have strong economies and good social structure. I have a professor from the Netherlands and from what he has told me I think I would quite like it there.

Why don't you quit school, get a job and save money to go to the UK? Assuming of course you can get some sponsorship. It seems this is really important to you so why not make it your focus?

The only thing I see conservatives for is holding the country back from progress. I don't care for them and I won't vote for one...and most of it stems largely from their religious involvement.

So what do you consider progress?

Wait, so you are telling me my personal experiences shouldn't affect how I view the government? That make no sense, your political views are shaped by who you are.

Yes, they shape who you are. But it shouldn't effect your ability to look at things objectively. Think about any person in a leadership position. You need to be able to detach your personal experience from the situation to figure the best solution. If you can't, then that makes you a bleeding heart liberal. I honestly hope that's not the case.

 

[Joey D]

The fact that you can go from having nothing to be successful, or choose to have nothing. It's a free society. You can be what you want, not what you were born into or raised in.

And that's the answers I am looking for.

Yep, it is excellent behavior for a mod. You are actually showing a better example of your ignorance. By your response it's difficult for me to think that you understand what ignorance means. It means you lack knowledge of a certain subject or area. Obviously, you know very little about immigration to this country. Or else you never would have asked a question about why tens of millions of people come to America. Legally and illegally.

I never said I was an expert nor did I claim to be. And typically saying someone is "ignorant" is an insult. I'll discuss the matter with Jordan.

So you've never lived in another country yet? With your grandparents having dual citizenship, I'm willing to bet there is some kind of sponsorship program or something you could use.

I stayed in the UK for 6 weeks, but that is hardly living somewhere. And just because my grandparents have dual citizenship doesn't mean I can get a free ride over there.

Nope, you said Europe

No I'm pretty sure I was talking about the UK

When I was in the UK I researched this a bit and in order to get the proper papers to live there you need a job, but you aren't allowed to look for a job under your 6 month visa. So the only way an American could go over there to live now would be to get hooked up with a company here that transfers your over there. I would have to imagine that other countries are like that.

It's the only one I've looked in to.

Why don't you quit school, get a job and save money to go to the UK? Assuming of course you can get some sponsorship. It seems this is really important to you so why not make it your focus?

How do you suppose I get an adequate job to make enough money to even begin thinking about moving to a country where their money is worth 2.5 time more then ours without a college degree? Yes I make decent money now but it's hardly enough to make it in another country. And anything I do save is handled by a financial adviser.

Moving away from America is a hope of mine but I have to be realistic as well. I'm looking at getting engaged soon, I need to finish school and get a proper job first, and I still enjoy my family. You make it sound like picking up and moving is easy.

So what do you consider progress?

Things that are in a progressive manner. Conservative typically do not support homosexual marriage, stem cell research, and cloning which are all progressive ideas in my mind. They also typically still want creation taught in schools which is something I can't even begin to agree with.

Yes, they shape who you are. But it shouldn't effect your ability to look at things objectively. Think about any person in a leadership position. You need to be able to detach your personal experience from the situation to figure the best solution. If you can't, then that makes you a bleeding heart liberal. I honestly hope that's not the case.

I look at politicians who go after what I believe in, if this truly is a free country I should be able have this view.

 

[Swift]

And that's the answers I am looking for.

I'm glad it was.

I never said I was an expert nor did I claim to be. And typically saying someone is "ignorant" is an insult. I'll discuss the matter with Jordan.

I'm sorry, but this is really, REALLY showing you don't understand what ignorant means or you're really sensitive. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to immigrating to another country, but since you really want to do it, shouldn't it be a subject you know a great deal about?

Oh, and feel free to contact Jordan about it. Though I think he may get more of a laugh out of it then I did.

I stayed in the UK for 6 weeks, but that is hardly living somewhere. And just because my grandparents have dual citizenship doesn't mean I can get a free ride over there.

I didn't say free ride. But their could quite possibly be a loophole or something you could exploit since you have a documented family connection to the country.

No I'm pretty sure I was talking about the UK

I quoted it when you said Europe in my last post, but that's semantics.

How do you suppose I get an adequate job to make enough money to even begin thinking about moving to a country where their money is worth 2.5 time more then ours without a college degree? Yes I make decent money now but it's hardly enough to make it in another country. And anything I do save is handled by a financial adviser.

That was actually my point. You seem to be doing pretty well but you have a loathing for a country that does people wrong. Interesting...

Moving away from America is a hope of mine but I have to be realistic as well. I'm looking at getting engaged soon, I need to finish school and get a proper job first, and I still enjoy my family. You make it sound like picking up and moving is easy.

No, it's not easy. But it's possible for those that really want it. The question is, are you willing to leave your family for your ideology?

Things that are in a progressive manner. Conservative typically do not support homosexual marriage, stem cell research, and cloning which are all progressive ideas in my mind. They also typically still want creation taught in schools which is something I can't even begin to agree with.

So you hit all religious points except for maybe stem cell research. You do know that SCIENCE doesn't support embryonic stem cell research but instead great advances have been made in adult stem cell research.

How would things be better for the American society with clothing and homosexual marriage?

I look at politicians who go after what I believe in, if this truly is a free country I should be able have this view.

Sure you can have it. But it's an opinion that is easily picked apart for inconsistencies, as I and others have done in this thread. That's what I was talking about. You have what seems to be a very emotionally based political philosophy and this is almost always not founded on facts or logic.

 

[Joey D]

That was actually my point. You seem to be doing pretty well but you have a loathing for a country that does people wrong. Interesting...

How am I doing pretty well? Pretty well would mean I could buy whatever I wanted. I have a decent job that I got by knowing the right people, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I'm not here to talk about my finances though.

No, it's not easy. But it's possible for those that really want it. The question is, are you willing to leave your family for your ideology?

No, my mom and dad will always come first in anything. They have taken care of me for a number of years, the least I can do is return the favour. If they wanted to come with me then I wouldn't have an issue.

So you hit all religious points except for maybe stem cell research. You do know that SCIENCE doesn't support embryonic stem cell research but instead great advances have been made in adult stem cell research.

When I think of conservative ideas, a religious tone comes to mind.

I didn't say embryonic, but I really don't see an issue with it. Some scientist don't support it, others do. That's why there is a debate about it.

How would things be better for the American society with clothing and homosexual marriage?

I assume clothing is a typo.

But we would be a freer society if there was homosexual marriage, I can't see anything wrong with allowing two people of the same sex to get married and the only thing I see against it is the Bible...which shouldn't be used in making laws.

Sure you can have it. But it's an opinion that is easily picked apart for inconsistencies, as I and others have done in this thread. That's what I was talking about. You have what seems to be a very emotionally based political philosophy and this is almost always not founded on facts or logic.

So you mean your political ideology has nothing to do with your personal feelings?

 

[Swift]

How am I doing pretty well? Pretty well would mean I could buy whatever I wanted. I have a decent job that I got by knowing the right people, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I'm not here to talk about my finances though.

Uh, no. Your doing well means you're not in want and can afford to be in college, have a job that meets your needs, have a computer, be online and talk about how you horrible this country is. Do you really think you think you would be doing well until you could buy anything you want? You are very dedicated to your family, I'm betting you would like to buy them a lot of things too. You'd need many millions just to be doing "pretty well". This is what I mean by emotionally based philosophy.

No, my mom and dad will always come first in anything. They have taken care of me for a number of years, the least I can do is return the favour. If they wanted to come with me then I wouldn't have an issue.

I can respect that.

When I think of conservative ideas, a religious tone comes to mind.

Then you don't know much about conservatism.

I didn't say embryonic, but I really don't see an issue with it. Some scientist don't support it, others do. That's why there is a debate about it.

Actually, there are very well documented reports that adult stem cells are much better for medical purposes then embryonic. Which then of course, takes away the scientific aspect and asks, do we really want to kill unborn fetuses for a science that is not productive?

I assume clothing is a typo.

Good assumption. 👍

But we would be a freer society if there was homosexual marriage, I can't see anything wrong with allowing two people of the same sex to get married and the only thing I see against it is the Bible...which shouldn't be used in making laws.

I do. But for more then just biblical reasons. That's a conversation for the homosexual thread though.

So you mean your political ideology has nothing to do with your personal feelings?

Very little if anything. Just because I like something doesn't make it good for all people. Also, just because something goes along with my particular religion doesn't mean it should be forced on all others.

 

[Joey D]

I don't feel I am doing well, but as I've said a person's finances are their business. I am better off then other people just because I have things and there are some who live on the streets. I will consider myself to be doing well when I can buy whatever makes me, my future wife, and my parents happy. It's a personal view though.

This conversation is going nowhere since I'm not going to change how I think, nor am I going to change the way you think. I guess this shows we do have freedoms in this country because two people are allowed to have different opinions.

 

[Swift]

What you just said is all well and good. But you dodged all of my questions and rebuttals.
This forum isn't here specifically to change someone's mind. It's here for us to voice our opinions and debate them. So, why discontinue?

 

[Joey D]

Why continue? I've said all I want to say on the subject, you know exactly where I stand.

 

[Swift]

Why continue? I've said all I want to say on the subject, you know exactly where I stand.

So you're content with letting me being able to pick apart your stance with logic just because you "feel" it's fine? That's quite interesting.

 

[Joey D]

It now seems like you just want to argue for argue sake. I'm content with knowing that I am happy with how I view my political ideology as well as the country. I know there are others out there that think like I, however I am aware there are people who don't which I am fine with, I don't expect everyone to hold the same values on things.

I personally do not like America, that is my position on this thread.

 

[Omnis]

Because I don't see it your way I'm being ridiculous? Glad to see you have to resort it to a personal level.

No-- that statement just sounded awfully emotional and unfounded. I read that as putting Christians on a pedestal, implying that all other individuals have lesser rights.

It was not meant to be a personal attack of any sort, and I'm sorry if you thought it was.

Basically, you can apply Swift's response to my own opinions.

 

[Swift]

It now seems like you just want to argue for argue sake. I'm content with knowing that I am happy with how I view my political ideology as well as the country. I know there are others out there that think like I, however I am aware there are people who don't which I am fine with, I don't expect everyone to hold the same values on things.

I personally do not like America, that is my position on this thread.

So are you going to give a concrete reason you don't like America or just go with emotions?

BTW it's arguing because this is the opinion forum's sake.

 

[YSSMAN]

I personally do not like America, that is my position on this thread.

No matter how crazy I may get politically, I don't think I could ever say that. EVER. I'm just as patriotic as anyone here, and I'd be happy to discuss that, but there is a difference between disliking the country in general or just not caring much for the current state we're in.

Like it or not, you can do something. Get out there and get people motivated to vote, stir your own pot with your local government, the state government, the federal government. There is plenty of room for you to help make America a better place, you just have to be willing to do it.

My tastes for the current administration (which has been degrading since 2004, in which I did help to get him elected) may not be positive, but I see light at the end of the tunnel. Things will get better, and quite honestly, I don't think its going to be anything near better in Europe. You're still going to have to deal with some nasty immigration issues, not to mention economies that are constantly on the verge of collapse, systems of government that are literally running out of money because their populations are too old, etc.

Hey, I respect your opinion, and if you don't care much for the home team anymore, thats your own deal. I don't think I could ever say that because I know that there is always something that I can do to help change things.

...But hey, thats just me...

 

[Joey D]

No-- that statement just sounded awfully emotional and unfounded. I read that as putting Christians on a pedestal, implying that all other individuals have lesser rights.

I feel they do, America is way to much of a Christian nation for my liking, especially when we are supposed to have separation of church from the state. See the article below about Atheist being the most distrusted group in America.

So are you going to give a concrete reason you don't like America or just go with emotions?

As I've said in various threads:

- I don't like how it has become a Christian nation, I have a strong dislike of religion and I feel America forces it on me. You know Atheist are the least trusted group in the US according to a 2006 survey?
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2006/03/24/67686

America makes many of it's decision through faith and pushes for other crazy faith based ideas, as I've said before the one that bugs me the most is teaching of creation in school.

- I don't like our foreign policy, I see no reason to police the world or give money to every country when we are slipping here at home.

- I don't like how the money is spent, I have no issues with paying taxes as long as the money goes for something good. This is even more so at the state level.

- I don't like the attitude we give off to the rest of the world, but I can see where they get their ideas from. I know we all aren't NASCAR loving rednecks who drive pick-ups and wear cowboy hats or a bunch of gun toting warmongers but if I watched the news I would sure get that impression. I also don't like how many citizens think we are the best.

- I don't like how our money is rapidly declining.

- I don't like how, 2.5 years later, the damage from Hurricane Katrina hasn't been cleared.

- It's probably the area I live in, but I hate how people jump on you for buying certain things. If this truly is a free country I shouldn't be worried every time I park my car that some thick skulled UAW worked is going to come over and key it.

- I don't like our technology base, especially the internet speeds and how we aren't doing anything to up them.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13184/1066/

- I don't like our tax system, it's fairly complex and the language is quite difficult to read for a laymen. Also the IRS has so much red tape in it it boggles my mind.

- I don't like our sports here, but this is a purely personal thing.

- I don't like how we are pursuing E85 as our next big alternative fuel source which I've said (as well as done some math) is a mistake.

There are other things that bug me about this country, but these are somethings off the top of my head so these are the ones that stick out the most to me.

No matter how crazy I may get politically, I don't think I could ever say that. EVER. I'm just as patriotic as anyone here, and I'd be happy to discuss that, but there is a difference between disliking the country in general or just not caring much for the current state we're in.

I honestly do not care for this country, I feel out of place. Maybe it's because I live in Michigan, I don't know.

Like it or not, you can do something. Get out there and get people motivated to vote, stir your own pot with your local government, the state government, the federal government. There is plenty of room for you to help make America a better place, you just have to be willing to do it.

I try to an extent, I know I could do more though. I know our local township manager and I've been able to convince him to have the community support events like our Relay for Life. I know one person can change things, but I don't know if I really have the patience for that fight.

My tastes for the current administration (which has been degrading since 2004, in which I did help to get him elected) may not be positive, but I see light at the end of the tunnel. Things will get better, and quite honestly, I don't think its going to be anything near better in Europe. You're still going to have to deal with some nasty immigration issues, not to mention economies that are constantly on the verge of collapse, systems of government that are literally running out of money because their populations are too old, etc.

Bush's administration is kind of "meh" to me, I think to many people made a big deal about it. I guess I see it as a huge running joke now...but then again isn't that what politics are?

I'm not saying things will be better in Europe, I just think I would like it better there and I think I would "fit" better with the culture.

Hey, I respect your opinion, and if you don't care much for the home team anymore, thats your own deal. I don't think I could ever say that because I know that there is always something that I can do to help change things.

...But hey, thats just me...

And see this is fine, I have no issues with people disagreeing with me like this. You are entitled to disagree with why I dislike the country, but on the same token I am entitled to disagree with your like. If everyone always agreed nothing would ever really change.


======

Crap, sorry for the massive text wall, I typically hate those.

 

[Famine]

I'd be grateful that I lived in a country which not only afforded me the opportunity to move to wherever I like but also permitted me to.

However, to address your points in relation to the UK:

I don't like how it has become a Christian nation, I have a strong dislike of religion and I feel America forces it on me. You know Atheist are the least trusted group in the US according to a 2006 survey?
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2006/03/24/67686

America makes many of it's decision through faith and pushes for other crazy faith based ideas, as I've said before the one that bugs me the most is teaching of creation in school.

The UK is a Christian nation - moreso than the US. We have no legislated separation of church and state.

I don't like our foreign policy, I see no reason to police the world or give money to every country when we are slipping here at home.

Every time the US sends troops anywhere, the UK sends troops with them.

I don't like how the money is spent, I have no issues with paying taxes as long as the money goes for something good. This is even more so at the state level.

You wait until you're taxed 30% of your salary for other people's health. Or £400 a year and 80% of your fuel for £60 per driver spending on roads (the rest going to other people's health). And 17.5% of everything you buy - for other people's health. And where politicians spend a half billion pounds a year on "expenses" they don't have to declare (fun fact - an MP can claim £200 if they have to buy a blender).

I don't like the attitude we give off to the rest of the world, but I can see where they get their ideas from. I know we all aren't NASCAR loving rednecks who drive pick-ups and wear cowboy hats or a bunch of gun toting warmongers but if I watched the news I would sure get that impression. I also don't like how many citizens think we are the best.

As opposed to posh, superior, stiff-upper-lipped xenophobes?

I don't like how our money is rapidly declining.

See earlier. You think you have a credit crunch coming?

I don't like how, 2.5 years later, the damage from Hurricane Katrina hasn't been cleared.

Pfft. The damage from the 1987 hurricane in the UK hasn't been cleared. We just pretend it didn't happen.

It's probably the area I live in, but I hate how people jump on you for buying certain things. If this truly is a free country I shouldn't be worried every time I park my car that some thick skulled UAW worked is going to come over and key it.

Cars are keyed all the time over here. No-one gives a crap about other people's possessions - and there's no consequences. Better still "environmental activists" flyer vehicles they think are too big and have recently taken to damaging tyre valves.

Fun fact - in some areas, a third of drivers don't have any insurance. Good luck getting anything back if one of them smacks into you.

I don't like our technology base, especially the internet speeds and how we aren't doing anything to up them.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13184/1066/

My Broadband - for which I pay £17 a month - rarely exceeds 512kbps. If you're remote (by which I mean 5 miles or more from the next nearest village) you don't get gas supplies and you're lucky if you get electricity, phones or post. And you still get charged £400 for road tax, even though you cannot possibly get public transport.

I don't like our tax system, it's fairly complex and the language is quite difficult to read for a laymen. Also the IRS has so much red tape in it it boggles my mind.

Oh you'll love it in the UK. Our tax system is simple - take 'em down, bend over and grit your teeth.

I don't like our sports here, but this is a purely personal thing.

Welcome to the UK. We have football (soccer) which is played by a bunch of inbred borderline rapists whose only marketable ability is to shepherd an inflated bag of synthetic leather into an outdoor cupboard, cricket which takes 5 days and still doesn't come up with any kind of result and rugby which is played by burly homosexuals. All sports and discussions of them can be resolved by punching anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I don't like how we are pursuing E85 as our next big alternative fuel source which I've said (as well as done some math) is a mistake.

Wait... is this the US or the UK you're talking about?


Dude, the grass is always greener. 30% of our salary vanishes without us ever seeing it. Want a pension when you retire? Another 5% goes the same way. Want a car? Welcome to paying twice what you'd pay in the US. Want a new one? Welcome to 17.5% purchase tax, new registration tax and road tax. Want a nice new one? That'll be £950 to put it on the road and £440 every year (all but £60 of which goes to the NHS). Want petrol? That'll be $8 a gallon. Want to go on public transport instead? Enjoy our always-late, urine-soaked relics, running on the worst road and rail systems in the known universe. Want to exist? That'll be £96 please, for an ID card which contains your fingerprints, DNA profile, retinal scan, name, address, photo and constitutes a criminal offence against the Terrorism Act (not joking) if you fail to show it to a policeman.


And don't forget you'll be paid, on average, 20% less than the same person in the USA.

 

[Joey D]

Welcome to the UK. We have football (soccer) which is played by a bunch of inbred borderline rapists whose only marketable ability is to shepherd an inflated bag of synthetic leather into an outdoor cupboard, cricket which takes 5 days and still doesn't come up with any kind of result and rugby which is played by burly homosexuals. All sports and discussions of them can be resolved by punching anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Good lord that was possibly the funniest thing I've heard in a while. And your soccer (football) players sound a lot like our football (American handball, is that what you call it?) players.

Anyways like I said I just looked into living over in the UK briefly, I don't know if I could financially do it (by the sound of it I couldn't just yet). From my short time their I really enjoyed it and I think it's a great country. I just think it's hard for a citizen of a country to see the country from an outsiders perspective (wow that was profound ).

I don't know where I would like to live, all I know is America doesn't suit me, culturally or politically, which is a good indication I probably should move.

 

[Famine]

From my short time their I really enjoyed it and I think it's a great country.

I'd agree - we have some spectacular things and people.

Then again we have Nottingham and Yardies.

I just think it's hard for a citizen of a country to see the country from an outsiders perspective (wow that was profound ).

The opposite is also true. You don't get the whole picture just visiting.

I'll give you an example. We've just bought a house. It cost us $265,000 - the majority of which is a loan costing us $1,300 a month. The total floor area is about 800sqft (140 of which is the garage) and there's about 1600sqft of garden. It is directly attached to another house. I also have to pay the local government (council) $2,000 a year for living in their area. This is the start of what it costs to live here.

This is also "cheap".

I don't know where I would like to live, all I know is America doesn't suit me, culturally or politically, which is a good indication I probably should move.

If you like socialism, Germany. If you like capitalism, France.

Fun fact I heard about France - Parisians objected so strongly to wheel clamps (Denver Boot?) that whenever they saw a vehicle clamped, no matter whose, they superglued the lock. So to release the car (after collecting a fine), the clamp had to be cut off and replaced. Cost of new clamp >>> fine. Clamps were abandoned.

 

[Joey D]

I'd agree - we have some spectacular things and people.

Then again we have Nottingham and Yardies.

Every place has it's undesirable areas.

With the people, I found the British to be quite friendly and helpful. I remember when I got off the train in Maidenhead my mobile phone didn't work and I had no idea how to use a pay phone. A very nice women who saw I was bewildered came up gave me the 40p to use the phone and helped me dial the number. I was astonished, things like that typically don't happen in America...or at least I never observe them. Everyone seems so cheerful towards me and I thought I was going to be looked down upon because I was American, although people kept thinking I was from Kent for some reason.

The opposite is also true. You don't get the whole picture just visiting.

I'll give you an example. We've just bought a house. It cost us $265,000 - the majority of which is a loan costing us $1,300 a month. The total floor area is about 800sqft (140 of which is the garage) and there's about 1600sqft of garden. It is directly attached to another house. I also have to pay the local government (council) $2,000 a year for living in their area. This is the start of what it costs to live here.

This is also "cheap".

Oh I know I didn't get the whole picture, I mean I was in Oxford most of the time with time spent in Maidenhead, London, and the tourist areas.

I did notice housing was quite expensive, the people I stayed with in Maidenhead had quite a large flat on the River Thames...which I have to imagine was quite expensive. They also owned what they called an estate in Scotland. But people from Maidenhead are rich anyways...or so I'm told.

 

[Sphinx]

Every place has it's undesirable areas.

With the people, I found the British to be quite friendly and helpful. I remember when I got off the train in Maidenhead my mobile phone didn't work and I had no idea how to use a pay phone. A very nice women who saw I was bewildered came up gave me the 40p to use the phone and helped me dial the number. I was astonished, things like that typically don't happen in America...or at least I never observe them. Everyone seems so cheerful towards me and I thought I was going to be looked down upon because I was American, although people kept thinking I was from Kent for some reason..

Keep those memories of your visit, and don’t let Famine destroy them with his far stretched half-truths and overly exaggerated views of this country. 👍

 

[Sureboss]

Every place has it's undesirable areas.

With the people, I found the British to be quite friendly and helpful. I remember when I got off the train in Maidenhead my mobile phone didn't work and I had no idea how to use a pay phone. A very nice women who saw I was bewildered came up gave me the 40p to use the phone and helped me dial the number. I was astonished, things like that typically don't happen in America...or at least I never observe them. Everyone seems so cheerful towards me and I thought I was going to be looked down upon because I was American, although people kept thinking I was from Kent for some reason.



Oh I know I didn't get the whole picture, I mean I was in Oxford most of the time with time spent in Maidenhead, London, and the tourist areas.

I did notice housing was quite expensive, the people I stayed with in Maidenhead had quite a large flat on the River Thames...which I have to imagine was quite expensive. They also owned what they called an estate in Scotland. But people from Maidenhead are rich anyways...or so I'm told.

Was it a Lada estate?

 

[Kylehnat]

I honestly do not care for this country, I feel out of place. Maybe it's because I live in Michigan, I don't know.

*singing and pointing north (or in your case, pointing southeast)* O Canada, our home and native land...

You'll be hard-pressed to find a country that is infinitely better than the U.S. The grass always looks greener on the other side, until you hop the fence and realize that your neighbor actually spray-painted his lawn.

 

[Joey D]

I wouldn't mind Canada to be honest, I could easily be near my family and really wouldn't have to learn much to live there (culture things). I would ideally like to work at a museum and the Royal Ontario Museum would be just fine with me.

And here is how I see it, I am willing to live in an area where I have to pay more to live if the culture makes up for it. I loved the culture when I was in England and the fact that they actually view archaeology as a dignified profession.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'll admit that I've got a bit of Anglo-Envy on occasion, but I (no offense) do not consider their country to be any better than ours. Its much the same, only with a rather silly system of tax that will eventually blow itself apart as the country ages... Something that we will see happening across Europe.

Thought:

In the not too distant future, Europe will be begging for immigrants to help fund their socialized care systems. I'm sure they'd be happy to have a couple thousand Americans come over...