America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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I have seen this comment so many times now. Do Americans even want their troops overseas?

As far as I can tell the answer is no but it's a little complicated. Some don't support the government, some support troops but not what they are doing, some support government, troops, and what they are doing.

Our country reaps rewards from unfair trade and meddling around the globe, some accept that while others do not. It's important to note that the whole we are digging cannot simply be walked away from without deep wounds.
 
I have seen this comment so many times now. Do Americans even want their troops overseas?

Depends on who you ask. I think the average American probably doesn't, but there is still a portion of the population that absolutely loves war.
 
Do non-Americans think there's a straightforward answer to this question?

:P

haha 👍

We're no longer afraid of communism the way we once where, most of us are not afraid of Iran, and 9/11 seems a distant memory. Those are just some of the things that make you go hmmm.
 
I understand that it might be a complicated situation, but I find it odd that, so it seems, a large majority doesn't want their troops going around playing world police. Shouldn't the politicians* take notice of this?


*they probably have a double agenda on that matter.
 
That aside, I don't think the Army have the production facilities to support this kind of build.
You should check out the dam and lake they built for Atlanta's water source.

Buford Dam, Lake Lanier.

They can build a wall...
 
That aside, I don't think the Army have the production facilities to support this kind of build.
You should check out the dam and lake they built for Atlanta's water source.

Buford Dam, Lake Lanier.

They can build a wall...
Nobody's saying they can't build a wall but can has the army got the resources to spare on constructing and maintaining a project of this size without private assistance?
 
You should check out the dam and lake they built for Atlanta's water source.

Along with the New Orleans levees?

The point I was making was that the Army Corps don't create their own materials, they buy and assemble the concrete, the steel, the brick and so on. There will always be private suppliers in the process somewhere.
 
State procurement divisions are just like any other consumer group, for the most part they go with the lowest bid. Empty rhetoric and as it was said earlier the Fed can blackmail moar better even by withholding the funds the states would spend anyway.

Contractors would jump at the chance to work with the core as they pay better than the state anyway.
 
Say what?

Did I miss the part where building a wall is related to pensions and investments?

Apparently so - the discussion was about about ordinances that prevent investment in the funds of companies associated with building the wall. As far as I'm aware there are no ordinances in place (although there are some 'proposals') that affect being invited to bid.
 
Apparently so - the discussion was about about ordinances that prevent investment in the funds of companies associated with building the wall. As far as I'm aware there are no ordinances in place (although there are some 'proposals') that affect being invited to bid.

O.K. I guess, I still have no idea what you are on about. I thought the threat from the states in question is that they would boycott any contractors that worked on the wall, that is not how state procurement works and of course they use a bid system.

Oh well, the threats will amount to squat anyway.
 
Apparently so - the discussion was about about ordinances that prevent investment in the funds of companies associated with building the wall. As far as I'm aware there are no ordinances in place (although there are some 'proposals') that affect being invited to bid.
That's not the gist of the article.
Coordinated efforts have been launched in California, Arizona, Illinois, New York and Rhode Island that would prohibit cities and towns from doing any official business with the companies as part of a larger resistance strategy to delay construction of the controversial wall.

Most recently, Berkeley’s City Council in California approved an ordinance that would ban it from contracting with companies involved in the construction.
They are literally talking about blacklisting companies because they are engaging in a legal project sponsored by their political rival. It's third world politics. It's extortion.
 
That's not the gist of the article.
They are literally talking about blacklisting companies because they are engaging in a legal project sponsored by their political rival. It's third world politics.

That would. At the moment those ordinances haven't been passed. I agree that if they are passed it's a different ball-game.
 
That would. At the moment those ordinances haven't been passed. I agree that if they are passed it's a different ball-game.

There is no way an state will officially attempt to pass such a law, it would be shot down in the state's supreme court in a blink of an eye.
 
The fact that it's even being suggested is extremely alarming to me.
What about the significant number who feel compelled to suggest it? I find the whole lot of it alarming. What nations have border walls? There are some not-entirely-unreasonable examples but there is also some unsettling company.
 
Israel is very important presence in the middle east to support our troops...

Why? It's right beside Saudi Arabia, which has historically been a very strong US ally. Why throw yourself in front of a bus for a small and hyper aggressive country when you have an ally right beside them?

If Israel wants to buy arms from the US, great. More customers. But I don't see the advantage to the US in tying themselves to the Israeli mast.
 
Why? It's right beside Saudi Arabia, which has historically been a very strong US ally. Why throw yourself in front of a bus for a small and hyper aggressive country when you have an ally right beside them?

If Israel wants to buy arms from the US, great. More customers. But I don't see the advantage to the US in tying themselves to the Israeli mast.

Military tech. and support, and they are cheaper to please ;p

I think the U.S. is sending a so called democracy message with it as well, that part is strange as since we've taken out working regimes we see no democracy in it's place, utter chaos.

Israel doesn't really need to buy arms from us, that's a bonus.
 
Military tech. and support, and they are cheaper to please ;p

You're telling me that the US wants Israeli military technology? Pull the other one, it has bells on.

The Israelis do a decent line in missiles, but the US are hardly lacking in that department. What military technology does Israel have that the US doesn't have available already?
 
Here ya go then.
Dozens of leading U.S. companies have set up technology incubators in Israel to take advantage of the country's penchant for new ideas, which is why Bill Gates observed in 2006 that the "innovation going on in Israel is critical to the future of the technology business." Likewise, Israeli high-tech firms often turn to U.S. companies as partners for joint production and marketing opportunities in the United States and elsewhere, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. And although Israelis make up just three percent of the population of the Middle East, in 2011 Israel was the destination of 25 percent of all U.S. exports to the region, having recently eclipsed Saudi Arabia as the top market there for American products.

U.S. companies' substantial cooperation with Israel on information technology has been crucial to Silicon Valley's success. At Intel's research and development centers in Israel, engineers have designed many of the company's most successful microprocessors, accounting for some 40 percent of the firm's revenues last year. If you've made a secure financial transaction on the Internet, sent an instant message, or bought something using PayPal, you can thank Israeli IT researchers.

I already know you'll say that stuff is not military tech but whatever, our alliance with them is a good deal and this article will explain more to you.
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america

We are not the military super power we are because we live in a bubble, we've always used resources around the world to make and keep us the war machine we are. Why would we stop doing that now?

Israel has also emerged as an important niche defense supplier to the U.S. military, with sales growing from $300 million per year before September 11 to $1.1 billion in 2006, due to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Israel's military research and development complex has pioneered many cutting-edge technologies that are transforming the face of modern war, including cyberweapons, unmanned vehicles (such as land robots and aerial drones), sensors and electronic warfare systems, and advanced defenses for military vehicles.
 
I already know you'll say that stuff is not military tech but whatever, our alliance with them is a good deal and this article will explain more to you.
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america

You know, that's a pretty vague article. It mentions missile tech, which I'd also already mentioned, although I believe it's more of an information transfer rather than production units or designs. UAVs is a good one, Israel does indeed do a good line in unmanned military vehicles, more so than many other states who can afford the military manpower instead. It's something that the US is getting into more heavily, although the US has also been experimenting in this area since at least the 60's if I recall.

Random "technology" seems a bit of a reach, there are many states that are making significant technological progress. Israel perhaps splits their technology budget more towards the military than some, but without specifics it seems hard to create an informed opinion on the potential benefits. Frankly, the article is pretty short on actual information and pretty long on propaganda. The entire thing can largely be summed up by "the alliance with Israel is good for the US, have some buzzwords".

If you've got actual specific advantages that you'd like to discuss I'd be very interested. It has recently become relevant to my interests to be informed about military technologies and their impact on the US and it's allies. I don't pretend to be highly knowledgeable, but I've learned a bit and I'm keen to learn more. However at the same time I'm not real eager to simply accept generalist assertions at face value when we could just as easily talk about the specific benefits that such an alliance provides.

We are not the military super power we are because we live in a bubble, we've always used resources around the world to make and keep us the war machine we are. Why would we stop doing that now?

You wouldn't, but using external resources is done with consideration and forethought. The US does not use or rely on foreign military resources just because, it's a considered choice. You'll notice that the US has not bought the Eurofighter Typhoon or the Dassault Rafale, because of considered choices that they have made.

If you're going to make the argument that Israel is part of the US policy of adopting foreign military technology, I expect you to be able to provide at least some reasoning for that statement. For example, the Spike is a remarkable piece of man portable and light vehicle mountable missile technology, however the US has chosen not to field it in favour of it's own equivalent hardware. What is it specifically that Israel is providing the US?
 
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