America - The Official Thread

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The shutdown is over (temporarily at least) with no wall funding!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/politics/donald-trump-shutdown-border/index.html

That's good news for contractors, many of whom were getting close to having to go leave without pay. Federal employees were pretty much always guaranteed back pay, so some got to stop working and would eventually get paid for that time anyway, others got to work with out pay (until now), and still others never stopped working or getting paid. Some contractors were getting a bit nervous.

We'll see what happens in a few weeks. I think many impacted agencies will fill up reserve coffers so that they can buffer against a second shutdown similarly to the first.
 
That's good news for contractors, many of whom were getting close to having to go leave without pay. Federal employees were pretty much always guaranteed back pay, so some got to stop working and would eventually get paid for that time anyway, others got to work with out pay (until now), and still others never stopped working or getting paid. Some contractors were getting a bit nervous.

We'll see what happens in a few weeks. I think many impacted agencies will fill up reserve coffers so that they can buffer against a second shutdown similarly to the first.

One thought I've had is how many federal workers are considering leaving their positions for good? How horrible, or in the very least supremely irritating, it must be to constantly be used as pawns by opposing forces far beyond your ability to control.

I strongly doubt that the government will shutdown in 3 weeks no matter what happens, but who knows what will happen next year, and I have a feeling federal workers are thinking the same thing.
 
It's too cynical to call this politics. This is far worse than politics. I think America and Americans need to move beyond this notion of politics always requiring such a substantial amount of Machiavellism. Perhaps we should call it Stoneism and treat it like a very bad word.

I'm not condoning it. But it's the way it is. Trump has burned his bridges in the mistaken belief that he's running a TV reality show where he can just say "you're fired" to his political opponents when he chooses. When you eke out a marginal electoral (college) victory it would be wise to plan your political strategy accordingly. But Trump isn't wise.
 
One thought I've had is how many federal workers are considering leaving their positions for good? How horrible, or in the very least supremely irritating, it must be to constantly be used as pawns by opposing forces far beyond your ability to control.

I strongly doubt that the government will shutdown in 3 weeks no matter what happens, but who knows what will happen next year, and I have a feeling federal workers are thinking the same thing.

There's going to be a wide range of responses. For the federal workers that got paid and kept working the entire time, they have to feel bullet-proof to this kind of thing. For the ones that will get paid for furlough, if they had plenty of money to float, they're probably enjoying the paid vacation. For the ones that will get paid for furlough who were living paycheck to paycheck, they're probably not feeling so hot right now.

And for the TSA and Air Traffic Control, I bet the best ones have gotten their resumes out. But it's not actually them I'm most worried about, it's attrition. Some natural level of attrition is normal to people moving or retiring. But how do you recruit to those positions right now? It's a tougher sell.

So the agencies themselves have to be scratching their heads about how to build in funding reserves in order to last through months of government shutdown. Because now they're all convinced that it could happen (again). So I bet tons of agencies are doubling or tripling their rainy-day funds right now to insulate themselves against this. Which will just leave the public scratching their heads even more next time when the government "shuts down" and even fewer government employees stop working.
 
I think many impacted agencies will fill up reserve coffers so that they can buffer against a second shutdown similarly to the first.
What a concept! Save money for emergencies! ;)
 
What a concept! Save money for emergencies! ;)

I think the best analogy here would be a wife who has been the victim of domestic abuse hiding money from her husband. :lol:

It feels wrong to laugh at that.

Edit:

I doubt it's that simple. I'm not sure congress would be very happy with different agencies just stashing away the money directed to them instead of using it.

Yea, actually in some cases it may be a cleverly designed reserve that can function for this purpose but actually looks like it has another purpose. The government hiding money from itself. That's why I like the domestic abuse analogy

Edit:

I was just reading up on how some government agencies do it. Some of them use trust funds that are set aside for other purposes. Others use carry-over funding from the previous budget, which I guess they're allowed to do? So for example an agency can run up to the end of the fiscal year and not spend its entire budget in case there is an appropriations lapse. If there isn't a lapse, they then scramble to dump the extra money so that it doesn't look like they came in under budget.

I'm sure there are hundreds of individual games played depending on the agency. It's fairly dysfunctional though, and it's only going to get worse as a result of this. It leads the public to believe that it doesn't matter either, so it's a hidden cost of these appropriations lapses - the agencies themselves are insulating the public against the impact because those agencies are doing whatever is needed to avoid the impact on their personnel, even if that means raiding other accounts (to the extent legally possible). They'll get more creative too in the wake of this event.
 
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I doubt it's that simple. I'm not sure congress would be very happy with different agencies just stashing away the money directed to them instead of using it.
Yeah...it seems to me that "government agency" and "budget surplus" are phrases that just don't mix without considerable scheme-hatchery, which is in and of itself disconcerting even if it's for good.
 
Yeah...it seems to me that "government agency" and "budget surplus" are phrases that just don't mix without considerable scheme-hatchery, which is in and of itself disconcerting even if it's for good.

Fiscal Conservative: "Government agencies should maintain a reserve of money and be responsible for themselves when there are funding interruptions!!"

*department of housing and urban development diverts 10% of it's budget to a savings fund*

Fiscal Conservative: "OMG HUD's BUDGET IS 10% BIGGER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!!! SOCIALISM!!!!! SLAAAASSSHHHH!!!"

:lol::lol:

edit: This wasn't directed at anyone in particular, as an aside.
 
Fiscal Conservative: "Government agencies should maintain a reserve of money and be responsible for themselves when there are funding interruptions!!"

*department of housing and urban development diverts 10% of it's budget to a savings fund*

Fiscal Conservative: "OMG HUD's BUDGET IS 10% BIGGER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!!! SOCIALISM!!!!! SLAAAASSSHHHH!!!"

:lol::lol:

edit: This wasn't directed at anyone in particular, as an aside.
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This was directed at someone in particular, though someone not likely to observe it.
 
I was just thinking, with this deal coming so soon after Trump announced postponing the SOTU speech, I can't help but wonder if this is all about the speech itself. The man is vain more than he is anything else. Could it be he would rather go on television in arguably the most prestigious venue in the world than actually get a political win? I don't think it's a completely unreasonable thought.

I think Trump's opponents have made the mistake of not appealing to his vanity. Its clearly easy to manipulate him in this way. Maybe Pelosi has caught wind...not by appealing to it, but by denying him access to it....:confused:

One other observation I've made lately: A lot of conservative publications (notably the Washington Examiner, but there are others) have no trouble issuing blistering and/or withering criticism of Trump or at least the Trump administration. Fox News, however, has stayed remarkably on his side. Yes, Shep Smith and Wallace have occasional moments of dissent, but I genuinely feel those two are kept on for optics only. Fox News honestly feels like the media arm of the White House at this point. I feel like this doesn't get enough attention. Sean Hannity is effectively a top adviser to the president (they reportedly talk every night), which seems like a conflict of interest. I suppose none of this revelatory exactly....
 
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I was just thinking, with this deal coming so soon after Trump announced postponing the SOTU speech, I can't help but wonder if this is all about the speech itself.
The SOTU speech is not happening. It's not part of the deal, and it's entirely up to the Speaker of the House.
Trump has now bent over backward to avoid building the wall without congressional approval. If fails to attain a deal over the next 3 weeks, he will face a decision he would prefer to avoid.
 
As Danoff can attest, I dont know much about finance. However, I do happen to know a thing or two about how a governement has to budget. A gov agency runs more like a nonprofit than a business. To that end, a gov agency is not allowed to run a surplus. And much like a nonprofit, that agency can get fined if they run to much of a surplus by the end of a fiscal year. Further, it is very much a use it or lose ideology. If an agency runs a surplus for to long, then their yearly budget next fiscal year will be cut by that much.
Now, that may, or may not hold bearing on what actually happens in the federal government. I'm just saying that technically an agency cant save money. And if they do, it only really lasts a year.
 
As Danoff can attest, I dont know much about finance. However, I do happen to know a thing or two about how a governement has to budget. A gov agency runs more like a nonprofit than a business. To that end, a gov agency is not allowed to run a surplus. And much like a nonprofit, that agency can get fined if they run to much of a surplus by the end of a fiscal year. Further, it is very much a use it or lose ideology. If an agency runs a surplus for to long, then their yearly budget next fiscal year will be cut by that much.
Now, that may, or may not hold bearing on what actually happens in the federal government. I'm just saying that technically an agency cant save money. And if they do, it only really lasts a year.

Yea but there are whole articles written about the various ways that they do it now to avoid immediately falling on their face in a funding lapse. Their current techniques are only going to get more exaggerated, and it will generate waste in the process no doubt. One of the bits of waste is that each department/agency/thing had a plan leading up to this appropriations lapse. And they all thought it was good enough (presumably), and were not working hard spending man-hours trying to tweak it. That situation has now changed, I can virtually guarantee that every single separable entity has at least one person, probably 5, working on finding ways to increase buffer without running afoul of the rules. If I'm back-of-the-enveloping I'm guessing that there are hundreds of people within the federal government that will spend the next month or two full time trying to come up with a new solution to the funding problems caused entirely by this little showdown. That's after the weeks they spend just re-allocating money back to the places they spent weeks pulling it out of.

It's just one small example of the price that gets paid for this sort of behavior. I can think of so many others... for instance, NASA JPL, which is a contractor site in California, was facing putting workers on leave without pay if the outage continued. You can bet that they'll also be looking for additional ways to protect their employees against this in the future. The way JPL gets paid (through Caltech) might even look different. SpaceX probably has damage control going on. Boeing probably has damage control going on. Lockheed probably has damage control going on. Raytheon, Northrop, ULA. To the extent that those companies are getting funding direct form the DoD, maybe they don't need to adjust (I don't know if that would have been interrupted), but they also have space capabilities and are tied into NASA centers.

This is going to be mirrored for every state program that receives federal funding, maybe universities as well. I have an inkling of how big the ripple effect of the longest ever shutdown will be, but I'm sure I don't even come close to seeing the full picture. Far from bringing on smaller government, the government is going to become more robust, and spend more doing it.
 
No I didnt. I just stated that one shouldnt complain when one has a paying job.

You think that's somehow better? That's a very "I run my own business" opinion to hold; anyone who has a job should be grateful that they even have it at all.

There are plenty of people out there who are employed and totally justified in complaining about the conditions of that employment. While I'm sure you're the very model of benevolence and kindness to any employees you may happen to have, you should know that it's pretty common practise in companies for them to screw their employees for as much as possible. It's why unions continue to exist, at least in jurisdictions that allow them.
 
You think that's somehow better? That's a very "I run my own business" opinion to hold; anyone who has a job should be grateful that they even have it at all.

There are plenty of people out there who are employed and totally justified in complaining about the conditions of that employment. While I'm sure you're the very model of benevolence and kindness to any employees you may happen to have, you should know that it's pretty common practise in companies for them to screw their employees for as much as possible. It's why unions continue to exist, at least in jurisdictions that allow them.

That wasnt what I was pointing out. I was trying to put a 40 hour workweek in perspective with other situations. But fair enough I get your point of view. If I had a choice to do a 32 hour job for the same income, I would gladly do it.
 
I still disagree with most of you about the shutdown, and I can't really argue with this

The president has effectively taken 800,000 hostages and is demanding an exchange.

But if that's the case, the Democratic Party isn't a very good hostage negotiator. They're one of the last ones I'd want negotiating for my livelihood, right beside the Republican Party.

If anything this is just Democratic Party getting revenge for losing all of Washington in 2016. And it's working too, because as seen by your post, nobody's blaming them.


You don't think that this isn't in their minds? Donald Trump clowning them from 2015-2018, and in 2019 they have yet another golden opportunity to make him look like a complete buffoon, by refusing to give him any sort of deal, while also shifting all the blame on him?

In my opinion it's the perfect strategy, but I guess I'm the only person that sees it this way.
 
if that's the case, the Democratic Party isn't a very good hostage negotiator.

It's a poor comparison, in my opinion, but in a hostage situation a poor negotiator wouldn't automatically make the hostage-taker a good guy. In this case the Democrats have made it clear all along that they'll refuse to support funding for a wall. Trump went ahead and pinned the budget plan on it and found out they were right. Given that stonewalling is one of his primary business tactics he shouldn't have been surprised. It's interesting to note that financial meltdown is another proven Trump strategy.
 
Come hell or high water, Trump is going to build the wall, or be dragged away in chains. He made the promise the centerpiece of his campaign. He's got to do it or lose the support of his minions. If he doesn't get a compromise with House Dems over the next 3 weeks, I assume he will do it by emergency proclamation, simply ordering the US Army Corps of Engineers to build it, ASAP, starting this year. There may well be attempts to slow this down by court action or impeachment, but while such actions takes place, the Army will be snapping salute and obeying orders in the meantime. All this IMHO.
 
You don't think that this isn't in their minds? Donald Trump clowning them from 2015-2018, and in 2019 they have yet another golden opportunity to make him look like a complete buffoon, by refusing to give him any sort of deal, while also shifting all the blame on him?

In my opinion it's the perfect strategy, but I guess I'm the only person that sees it this way.

I've heard this idea bounced around a few times recently. What makes government function well for the people is bipartisan co-operation. But when you have two parties who are both competing for power, it's to the minority party's advantage to cooperate as little as possible so that the ruling party looks incompetent. Hopefully they look so bad that at the next election there's then ammunition to discredit the ruling party and the minority party can win.

Both Democrats and Republicans seem to have figured this out, hence there seems to be a rising amount of "screw you guys, I'm going home" type negotiating going on. Unfortunately, it means that the totality of government turns into a fight over who gets to hold the ruling scepter, with no one actually getting the chance to do anything productive with the power.

To be very, very clear; Democrats are doing this now, Republicans did this under Obama. This is emergent political behaviour that both parties have arrived at, not one party that is using this tactic to undermine government. Objectively, this is the way the system is designed and it could be argued that it's intended behaviour. That's probably wrong, as the majority of the US government wasn't designed with parties in mind, although humans being communal animals that was almost certainly a mistake. But it's certainly expected behaviour given rational actors and the current systems.
 
Here's one possible scenario that gets Trump reelected:




POLITICS
Ex–Starbucks CEO Could Get Trump Re-elected
Howard Schultz thinks politics are broken, and may run for president as an independent. Democrats think that’s a terrible idea
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE6:00 AM ET
lead_720_405.jpg

The ex–Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, a former Democrat, blames both parties for the current situation.ANDREW KELLY / REUTERS

Before there was Jill Stein, there was Ralph Nader. Before there was Nader, there was Ross Perot.

None won. All argued that the Republican Party and the Democratic Party were basically the same, and the only way to make real change was to ditch them both. Each was blamed for siphoning off enough votes to throw the presidential elections.

These days, the difference between the parties is starker than it’s ever been in modern times. Yet here comes Howard Schultz, a billionaire who feels that he might be the answer to American politics, and that he’d run for president as an independent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ltzs-independent-run-could-help-trump/581374/
 
I still disagree with most of you about the shutdown
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You don't think that this isn't in their minds?
Whether it is or it isn't, what bumped for me (and I suspect I'm not alone here) was the notion that "if anything this is just...". To hold such a belief, one has to be willfully ignorant of the administration's inability to demonstrate the need for and/or the efficacy of a border wall to a group that made it abundantly clear the motor would need significant stoking for wall funding to be approved. Rather than stoking, though, Trump went from idle to WOT with his shutdown extortion scheme. What happened to his supposed deal-making prowess?

Of course opposition to a wall isn't to be confused with disregard for common sense border security and immigration reform--like that to which the gentleman from Colorado so...enthusiastically...referred, which was drafted by a bipartisan faction of Senators (the "Gang of Four") and which cleared the Senate 68 to 32 thanks to all Democrats and fourteen Republicans but didn't even hit the House floor for discussion because the Republican Senators that voted in favor represented a minority of their respective party.
 
this is the way the system is designed and it could be argued that it's intended behaviour. That's probably wrong, as the majority of the US government wasn't designed with parties in mind

Thank you for your thoughts on parties. For your background information, I think it is assured that parties (factions) were very much on the minds of our Founding Fathers. The very important and famous Federalist #10 refers to them. Please see the below. Very much interested in your continuing remarks.

The Federalist (later known as The Federalist Papers) is a collection of 85 articles and essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the pseudonym "Publius" to promote the ratification of the United States Constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers


Federalist No. 10 (1787)
Written by James Madison, this essay defended the form of republican government proposed by the Constitution. Critics of the Constitution argued that the proposed federal government was too large and would be unresponsive to the people.

In response, Madison explored majority rule v. minority rights in this essay. He countered that it was exactly the great number of factions and diversity that would avoid tyranny.
Groups would be forced to negotiate and compromise among themselves, arriving at solutions that would respect the rights of minorities. Further, he argued that the large size of the country would actually make it more difficult for factions to gain control over others. “The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States.”
https://billofrightsinstitute.org/f...he-federalist-papers/federalist-papers-no-10/





Did the Founding Fathers Really Want Two Parties?
08/31/2012 09:04 am ET Updated Oct 31, 2012

Amid the fog of words of the two parties’ national conventions, speakers bandy about the names of the Founding Fathers as if they expect their audiences to understand the numerous differences among the Founders’ beliefs. When Rand Paul beats up on Alexander Hamilton and his doctrine of implied Constitutional powers by invoking James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, does Congressman Paul himself understand that Hamilton was the founder of the Federalists, forerunner of the modern Republican Party? In fact, Madison and Jefferson fathered the present-day Democratic Party, destroying the Federalists and fostering our winner-take-all brand of politics.

One of the enduring American myths we cherish is the two-party system. We must have two parties! To have three parties or more is impossible; to have only one, unthinkable. George Washington ran unopposed in the first two presidential elections but ever since 1796, the first election in which there were two competing candidates, Jefferson and John Adams, one political party has always tried to utterly destroy the other. From the outset, American presidential elections have been vicious. They didn’t just get that way in the 21st century.

To begin with, the Constitution did not provide for any political parties. It’s not that the Founding Fathers didn’t think about them but, to them, even the word “party’’ was anathema. They preferred a presidential election, the linchpin of our political system, in which the top vote-getter got to be president; the number two man, vice president. Why would you need parties?

To the Founders, opposition to the new nation’s political leadership meant opposition to the government — treason. Many of their families, including George Washington’s, had fled for their lives from the bloody partisan warfare of the English Civil Wars of the 1640’s that ended with King Charles I’s beheading. In the ensuing contumacious political infighting, the austere, budget-slashing opponents of free-spending friend of the arts (and numerous mistresses) Charles II were branded “Whigs,’’ a derisive Scottish term for curdled milk. Whigs hurled back the word “Tory,’’ an Irish word for highway robber, at defenders of the king’s lavish lifestyle. Negative references were considered badges of honor and the first party labels.

During the civil warfare of the American Revolution, the two warring parties adopted these old English labels. Adherents to the American independence movement were called Whigs. The pro-English party, the Loyalists — the real Tea Party — was denominated Tories, the “intestine” enemy which had to be purged and cast out.

So deep went the fear that post-Revolutionary party politics would again degenerate into civil warfare that the Founding Fathers understandably shunned the word party, much less the idea. Scottish philosopher David Hume, learning that his old friend, Benjamin Franklin, was armpit deep in American political intrigues, recoiled in horror. “I am surprised to learn our friend, Dr. Franklin, is a man of faction. Faction, above all, is a dangerous thing.’’

Even when, in 1787, the thorniest political questions of a new nation were thrashed out in secret during the Constitutional Convention, there was no provision for a two-party system. Opposition to the new Constitution, while strong in many states, was so disorganized that it was expected to be short lived.

Away in France during this reform convention, Thomas Jefferson objected to the lack of any formal provision for a two-party system. “Men are naturally divided into two parties,’’ he wrote, “those who fear and distrust the people and wish to draw all power from them into the hands of the higher classes [and] those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise, depository of the public interests.’’

It was obvious to the first president, George Washington, that unless he drew Jefferson into his government, Jefferson would organize anti-federal opposition into a political party. The uneasy honeymoon of the first American political system lasted less than two years. Inside Washington’s cabinet lurked the seeds of two quite opposite political parties. Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton spoke for the prosperous seaport towns of the North, the banking and commercial interests, the creditors. Jefferson, the perennially debt-ridden man from Monticello, spoke for the South and the West, the farmers, the workers, other debtors. To Jefferson, the Federalists were intolerably aristocratic “monocrats.’’ To Hamilton, Jeffersonians were French-style incendiaries who must be kept in check.
For awhile, James Madison, putative father of the Constitution and major author of the Federalist Papers, upheld Hamilton. But Hamilton’s pro-business, pro-banking policies, his coziness with land speculators who were swindling veterans out of their bounty lands, quickly drove Madison into Jefferson’s camp. At the end of the First Congress in the spring of 1791, ostensibly on a vacation tour of the Adirondacks and Vermont, Jefferson and Madison decided to launch a political party to oppose Hamilton’s, ergo President Washington’s, fiscal policies.

They arranged to hire Princeton-educated journalist Philip Freneau to set up the National Gazette, a Philadelphia-based weekly, to combat the Gazette of the United States, backed by Hamilton and his Federalists. They followed up this first step in forming two distinct political parties by spawning Democratic-Republican Clubs all over America.

Washington, a thin-skinned chief executive, only decided to stay on for a second term to prevent his lieutenants from, as he feared, splitting the country into two parties. To him, political parties spelled disunion. Eventually, Jefferson and Hamilton both resigned from Washington’s Cabinet to lead the two parties’ attacks on each other, using anonymous surrogates to write vitriolic columns for their thrice-weekly party newspapers.

To suppress the challenge of a second party, Washington’s successor, Federalist John Adams, signed into law the Alien and Sedition Acts, making it a federal crime to criticize the president or his administration’s policies. Supreme Court justices became circuit-riding inquisitors, trying, fining and imprisoning some 25 editors and printers who subscribed to the Jeffersonian party line.

Religious groups blessed their favorite candidates and condemned opponents. In the 1804 campaign, the Congregational clergy of New England ganged up on candidate Jefferson in sermons reprinted in Federalist newspapers, branding him an atheist at a time when four out of five American newspapers were Federalist-owned.

In his turn, when Jefferson became president he instituted what later became known as the spoils system. With his idea of even-handedness, he dismantled the Federalist Party. He fired half of all federal officeholders, the top half. He kept Federalists only in low-level clerical, postal and customs service jobs. Jefferson effectively deprived the Federalists of any chance of rebuilding a power base by excluding them not only from the federal payroll but from political and administrative experience. The Federalists never won another election. Their party died.

Jefferson’s Democratic-Republicans became Andrew Jackson’s Democrats. They held power, except for a single term, for 60 years. And then it was Abraham Lincoln’s turn. His new Republicans were ushered into the White House by the nearly terminally-divisive Civil War. To oppose the governing party again became treason, Lincoln’s critics rounded up and incarcerated, the writ of habeas corpus suspended. No Democrat would be elected president for another generation. The GOP of Abraham Lincoln held sway, with only two brief interruptions, for nearly 80 years until Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Through much of our nation’s history, in effect, there has been only one real national political party thriving at any given time in our winner-take-all system. And even though the pendulum swings may be shorter these days, neither party seems to want to relinquish the possibility of utterly destroying the other. Arguably, neither Barack Obama nor Mitt Romney would be unhappy to take total control of the nation’s political power.

Willard Sterne Randall, formerly an award-winning investigative reporter, is the author of six Founding Father biographies including, most recently, Ethan Allen, His Life and Times, published by W. W. Norton.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/will...ding-fathers-political-parties_b_1843593.html
 
Come hell or high water, Trump is going to build the wall, or be dragged away in chains. He made the promise the centerpiece of his campaign. He's got to do it or lose the support of his minions. If he doesn't get a compromise with House Dems over the next 3 weeks, I assume he will do it by emergency proclamation, simply ordering the US Army Corps of Engineers to build it, ASAP, starting this year. There may well be attempts to slow this down by court action or impeachment, but while such actions takes place, the Army will be snapping salute and obeying orders in the meantime. All this IMHO.

It is funny how that is the only promise he is being made accountable. What about what he promised about cole, better healthcare including coverage for pre exisiting conditions, lower business tax, Tax cut for everyone (not just rich), invest 500 billion in infrastructure etc.
 
It is funny how that is the only promise he is being made accountable. What about what he promised about cole, better healthcare including coverage for pre exisiting conditions, lower business tax, Tax cut for everyone (not just rich), invest 500 billion in infrastructure etc.
Well, I mean. It's not... it's just the biggest one ATM since it's the one Trump is making the most noise about and its the one that was causing the most damage up until a couple days ago by way of furlough. And honestly one pant leg at a time.
Regardless, he is ultimately still squarely under Muellers sights, and that appears to be uncovering more than just Russians trying to mess up the vote.
 
Well, I mean. It's not... it's just the biggest one ATM since it's the one Trump is making the most noise about and its the one that was causing the most damage up until a couple days ago by way of furlough. And honestly one pant leg at a time.
Regardless, he is ultimately still squarely under Muellers sights, and that appears to be uncovering more than just Russians trying to mess up the vote.

My statement was incomplete. I meant by the conservative media.

The more I leanr about Mueller it seems he is incredible good at whay he does and is not leaving any stone unturned.
 
It is funny how that is the only promise he is being made accountable. What about what he promised about cole, better healthcare including coverage for pre exisiting conditions, lower business tax, Tax cut for everyone (not just rich), invest 500 billion in infrastructure etc.
I think his minions and the conservative media at least have ticked the boxes on Trump's promises of tax reform and business deregulation. And of course they are giddily delighted with his court appointments.
 
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