America - The Official Thread

[PocketZeven]

I hope the aftermath will keep Trump busy untill the new election. I really hope he finishes his term. If he did violate the law, I dont want to see Pence pardon him.

From the New York Times
When Jeff Sessions, then the attorney general, shared the news in the Oval Office, the president slumped in his chair. “Oh my God,” he said, according to the report. “This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency,” he said, adding an expletive.

Mr. Trump then became angry and blamed Mr. Sessions for recusing himself from the Russia investigation, something he would never forgive Mr. Sessions for.
“Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency,” Mr. Trump reportedly said. “It takes years and years, and I won’t be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.”

It seems to me he was more worried about not fulfilling his campaign promises.

Anyone still think he was worried about getting exposed of colluding with Putin? Anyone?

The 30 times he "couldnt recall" in his written answers in the report suggest otherwise. For someone claiming to have one of the best memories of all time, thats kinda convenient. It isnt a smoking gun, but suggest otherwise.

Also all this Trump stuff is totally irrelevant compared to the fact that russian meddled with the election for a fact. What is the US reaction to that? Quite apalling how the liberal and conservative media keep focusing on trying impeaching Trump and eachother and not on sanctions to russia.

 

[huskeR32]

It seems to me he was more worried about not fulfilling his campaign promises.

That's a fairly charitable way to interpret his comments, especially when you take a step back and give an honest assessment of how many campaign promises he's actually showed any interest in keeping, under investigation or not.

Another interpretation could be that if a person's initial reaction, upon hearing they're under investigation, is "I'm 🤬," that person just might be guilty of something.

Interestingly, the article you linked to left out part of that conversation:

How could you let this happen, Jeff? You were supposed to protect me."

What does an innocent man need protecting from?

Anyone still think he was worried about getting exposed of colluding with Putin?

Sure, this report does stop short of saying that the Tump campaign actively solicited help from Russia, but that's not the only thing we ought to be concerned about.

The report does make it pretty clear that Trump is all but guilty of obstruction of justice, but, as I already mentioned, Mueller personally seems to agree with unwritten DoJ policy that sitting presidents not be indicted, and instead, felt that it was Congress' duty to act upon that evidence.

Further, we now know that Trump ordered white house counsel Don McGahn to remove Mueller from the investigation. I seem to remember another president trying to fire an independent investigator that was looking into him. Thankfully, McGahn refused the order. We know from history that such flagrant attempts to abuse presidential power would have, at one time, concerned the rest of the GOP as well. Looks like they're too far gone now. Power at any expense, no matter how corrupt the pursuit or the exercise, is all that matters.

Anyone?

Despite your smug assumption that we all ought to just be fine and dandy with this news, I'm still concerned about the criminal behavior of this president, about the Republican party's indifference, and about how gleefully 46.1% of this country cheers it all on.

--

Certainly. Everyone with TDS, and the Dems, of course.

Please, tell me more about deranged Dems. While you're at it, remind which party it was that lost their minds when Obama saluted a Marine while holding coffee, or, *gasp*, wore a tan suit while addressing the nation.

Which party it is that continues to buy into and spread ludicrous theories about pizza parlor sex rings and Clinton murder victims.

Which party was unsatisfied after sixteen different investigations failed to find any wrongdoing in Benghzai, but is now happy to accept one report, which doesn't even completely clear their guy of wrongdoing, and to shrug off pretty strong evidence of obstruction of justice.

Yeah, I'm not sure you guys want to be the ones accusing others of being "deranged."

 

[TexRex]

Yeah, I'm not sure you guys want to be the ones accusing others of being "deranged."

So...I was browsing YouTube, and Chef John over at Allrecipes, through his Food Wishes blog/vlog, reminded onlookers of a Chicken Kiev recipe he did years back by making light of current events.

I know you're not supposed to delve into comments when a video/post is likely to be politically charged, and perhaps even when it isn't, but I thought the post was completely innocent (viewers here can judge for themselves, as I've made a convenient little image condensing the original post and one particular comment) and I often enjoy the FW comment section; so delve I did.

There were some cute remarks high up on the scroll, such as "Because you're the main attraction, of this Russian chicken redaction" (an apparent play on Chef's typical rhymes that he uses to emphasize the fact that you get to make any changes to a recipe when you're the one preparing it) and a suggestion that 'DOJ' is the "Department of Juices", but then I inferred from comments further down the scroll that some had been unamused by the post--primarily assertions that the post itself wasn't intended to be political or to be taken remotely serious.

Without further ado:

Now I don't know who Benjamin is, as my scroll ended there, but I thought the response from Chef was just priceless.

Are you really such a fervent [re: deranged] Cheeto cheerleader that you can't see the light-hearted humor in that OP?

*sigh*

 

[Lizard]

https://www.unilad.co.uk/life/peopl...the-streets-of-san-francisco/?source=facebook


Apparently San Fran has an issue with people pooping on the street.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

So...I was browsing YouTube, and Chef John over at Allrecipes, through his Food Wishes blog/vlog, reminded onlookers of a Chicken Kiev recipe he did years back by making light of current events.

I know you're not supposed to delve into comments when a video/post is likely to be politically charged, and perhaps even when it isn't, but I thought the post was completely innocent (viewers here can judge for themselves, as I've made a convenient little image condensing the original post and one particular comment) and I often enjoy the FW comment section; so delve I did.

There were some cute remarks high up on the scroll, such as "Because you're the main attraction, of this Russian chicken redaction" (an apparent play on Chef's typical rhymes that he uses to emphasize the fact that you get to make any changes to a recipe when you're the one preparing it) and a suggestion that 'DOJ' is the "Department of Juices", but then I inferred from comments further down the scroll that some had been unamused by the post--primarily assertions that the post itself wasn't intended to be political or to be taken remotely serious.

Without further ado:

View attachment 815611

Now I don't know who Benjamin is, as my scroll ended there, but I thought the response from Chef was just priceless.

Are you really such a fervent [re: deranged] Cheeto cheerleader that you can't see the light-hearted humor in that OP?

*sigh*

You know, I don't get that take at all.

Seems more to me like the snowflake is a lefty, and he thought the OP was making fun of collusion crazy leftists after the finding of no collusion.

I could be wrong though.

 

[TexRex]

 

[PocketZeven]

A genuine question. I am not a student of criminal law, but if I hypothetically ask a person to kill someone, but the person refuses to carry that out. Are you punishable under law?

 

[Tornado]

That would be conspiracy to commit murder.

 

[PocketZeven]

That would be conspiracy to commit murder.

Is that a punishable offence?

 

[BobK]

Is that a punishable offence?

Very much so.

 

[PocketZeven]

Very much so.

So Trump ordering Mcgahn and sessions to fire mueller or stop the investigation is enough to be guilty of conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice? Even though both refused to carry out his orders? If they did decide to follow his orders though, would that have been onstruction of justice?

How can trumpsupporters justify this illegal criminal behavior and even believe that the report fully exonarates him? I guess the spinning machine is doing overtime.

I just hope congress decide to indict him after his term so he cant be pardoned by Pence.



edit: added comments

 

[TexRex]

So Trump ordering Mcgahn and sessions to fire mueller or stop the investigation is enough to be guilty of conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice? Even though both refused to carry out his orders? If they did decide to follow his orders though, would that have been onstruction of justice?

Sitting president.

How can trumpsupporters justify this illegal criminal behavior and even believe that the report fully exonarates him? I guess the spinning machine is doing overtime.

He's in a position to affect change in service to their chosen agendas, and it's simply convenient to hold that belief. If they're willing to disregard the Constitution when it proves to be inconvenient, as they clearly are, what chance does a little thing like the truth have? And yes, conservative media is hard at work.

 

[PocketZeven]

Sitting president.


He's in a position to affect change in service to their chosen agendas, and it's simply convenient to hold that belief. If they're willing to disregard the Constitution when it proves to be inconvenient, as they clearly are, what chance does a little thing like the truth have? And yes, conservative media is hard at work.

I know, thats why I hope they wont impeach. Indict him when his term is over, so he can serve real jailtime. There are many more crimes Trump has always seem to have ducked.

I just wanted to know if intent to obstruct is also breaking the law.

 

[Dotini]

https://www.unilad.co.uk/life/peopl...the-streets-of-san-francisco/?source=facebook


Apparently San Fran has an issue with people pooping on the street.

Seattle, Portland and other coastal leftist cities are faced with a crisis of mass homelessness, opioid addiction, and defecation on public and private property alike. All subsidized, protected and legitimated by elites in philanthropy, government, academia and media revolting against their own people. True insanity.
https://www.city-journal.org/seattleforall-campaign

I just wanted to know if intent to obstruct is also breaking the law.

In this situation, it could be. The President cannot be charged with a crime as long as he is in office. So it is now a political decision that, at this point, can only be made by the House, the Democratic majority. They must weigh impeachment against ruining their odds in the '20 election, only 18 months away. Of the major announced runners for president, only mid-pack Warren is for it. The party leaders are mainly for holding off unless they have a slam dunk with numbers of Senate Republicans joining in. At the moment, Senate Republicans are united in supporting the President and will vote accordingly not to convict if the Dems do take the impeachment option.

 

[PocketZeven]

Seattle, Portland and other coastal leftist cities are faced with a crisis of mass homelessness, opioid addiction, and defecation on public and private property alike. All subsidized, protected and legitimated by elites in philanthropy, government, academia and media revolting against their own people. True insanity.
https://www.city-journal.org/seattleforall-campaign



In this situation, it could be. The President cannot be charged with a crime as long as he is in office. So it is now a political decision that, at this point, can only be made by the House, the Democratic majority. They must weigh impeachment against ruining their odds in the '20 election, only 18 months away. Of the major announced runners for president, only mid-pack Warren is for it. The party leaders are mainly for holding off unless they have a slam dunk with numbers of Senate Republicans joining in. At the moment, Senate Republicans are united in supporting the President and will vote accordingly not to convict if the Dems do take the impeachment option.

I hope they won’t. Was just watching Fox News and it’s amazing how they spin the report and keep repeating that it totally exonerates him from conspiracy and obstruction. Claiming that the report proves fake news and dems were lying the whole time. But actually the report supports most claims of these fake news outlets. The report acknowledges that a sitting president can’t be indicted and states although there is proof the campaign had contact with Russians, there was no proof the trump campaign coordinated with Russians (collusion). Also it proves dead to rights how many lies came from the trump administration. Are they assuming their viewers won’t read the report? How can a trump supporter ignore the fact that the trump campaign knew of Russian meddling and acknowledged it was beneficial and decided to basically do nothing. I don’t even want trump impeached! Trump should do something about the Russian meddling.

 

[Dotini]

I hope they won’t. Was just watching Fox News and it’s amazing how they spin the report and keep repeating that it totally exonerates him from conspiracy and obstruction. Claiming that the report proves fake news and dems were lying the whole time. But actually the report supports most claims of these fake news outlets. The report acknowledges that a sitting president can’t be indicted and states although there is proof the campaign had contact with Russians, there was no proof the trump campaign coordinated with Russians (collusion). Also it proves dead to rights how many lies came from the trump administration. Are they assuming their viewers won’t read the report? How can a trump supporter ignore the fact that the trump campaign knew of Russian meddling and acknowledged it was beneficial and decided to basically do nothing. I don’t even want trump impeached! Trump should do something about the Russian meddling.

Don't worry about meddling in other people's elections. We do it all the time, probably much more than the 85 instances already acknowledged. The other Great Powers do it as much as they can, too. It's a good thing: we spread the benefits of democracy, capitalism, our great wisdom and high intentions. It's for their own good.

 

[PocketZeven]

Don't worry about meddling in other people's elections. We do it all the time, probably much more than the 85 instances already acknowledged. The other Great Powers do it as much as they can, too. It's a good thing: we spread the benefits of democracy, capitalism, our great wisdom and high intentions. It's for their own good.

I am pretty sure it isn’t the same. And even if it’s correct it isn’t a good thing.

 

[Rallywagon]

Don't worry about meddling in other people's elections. We do it all the time, probably much more than the 85 instances already acknowledged. The other Great Powers do it as much as they can, too. It's a good thing: we spread the benefits of democracy, capitalism, our great wisdom and high intentions. It's for their own good.

I am pretty sure it isn’t the same. And even if it’s correct it isn’t a good thing.

Exactly as Pocket is saying. Just because our Gov does it doesn't make it right, and just because our Gov does it doesn't mean we should accept other nations doing it to us.

 

[ryzno]

Exactly as Pocket is saying. Just because our Gov does it doesn't make it right, and just because our Gov does it doesn't mean we should accept other nations doing it to us.

If we do it to other countries should we not expect the same in return?

 

[Dotini]

If we do it to other countries should we not expect the same in return?

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Except do it first, harder and more often.

Seriously, meddling in elections is an essential part of US history. Without it, JFK would never have been elected.

 

[PocketZeven]

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Except do it first, harder and more often.

Seriously, meddling in elections is an essential part of US history. Without it, JFK would never have been elected.

If we do it to other countries should we not expect the same in return?

It would perhaps be karma. But the thing americans should be worried about is that there were campaign members of that election who knew about a foreign entity meddling, declared it "beneficial" didnt do anything to stop it, shared information with eachother and even worse lied to the american public about it and accusing the reporting about it as "fake news". The one important thing that exonerates Trump from conspiracy is that they didnt coordinate with the russians and were mostly passive. Allthough the mueller report does confirm this behavior is not illegal, it is ethically irresponsible and immoral.

Like if you knew about a murder, but decided not to intervene because it might be beneficial. That would not make you an accessory to murder or part of a conspiracy to murder and probably not even illegal, but definately immoral.

In 48 hours he went from praising the Mueller report to "total exonaration to calling it total BS. This is the world we live in. Read the report and you will surprised by the worrying behavior from the Trump administration and campaign, before watching Fox, CNN, CBS etc. Fox is the worst, because they assume their viewers wont read the report and just plain lie about its contents.

 

[Dotini]

This is the world we live in.

Decadent, decayed, fallen and corrupted. You win or you die when you play the game of thrones. This world, this real world, is not for children nor is it for angels. Nice guys finish last.

 

[PocketZeven]

Decadent, decayed, fallen and corrupted. You win or you die when you play the game of thrones. This world, this real world, is not for children nor is it for angels. Nice guys finish last.

A bit pessimistic. Thats why Pete buttigieg is such a breath of fresh air. He almost seems like genetically engineered in a lab to become president.

 

[Dotini]

A bit pessimistic. Thats why Pete buttigieg is such a breath of fresh air. He almost seems like genetically engineered in a lab to become president.

Not pessimistic, but realistic. We got to where we are in the world today by being smarter, more ruthless and better organized than the others. Kensington, not Kinshasa, is the zenith of civilization on Earth. There are twenty-some odd Dems in the running. If their process is as usual, the ultimate nominee will likely be the most monied, best organized and ruthless, the best candidate money can buy.

 

[TexRex]

But the thing americans should be worried about is that there were campaign members of that election who knew about a foreign entity meddling, declared it "beneficial" didnt do anything to stop it, shared information with eachother and even worse lied to the american public about it and accusing the reporting about it as "fake news". The one important thing that exonerates Trump from conspiracy is that they didnt coordinate with the russians and were mostly passive. Allthough the mueller report does confirm this behavior is not illegal, it is ethically irresponsible and immoral.

There are those who are concerned by it...and then there's the right who reaped the rewards of it. It's a bit like the Electoral College in that regard; you'd have the majority of the right decrying it if it had ever resulted in a Democrat taking office despite failing to garner the popular vote.*

The GOP is a J-O-K-E, as is everyone (without exception) who supports them. I mean...I had my suspicions during the last administration, but the current one confirmed it; I actually have to thank Trump for making that abundantly clear. I don't even blame Trump for that, as he's merely the tumor and not the cancer. No, I blame dug-in ticks like Mitch McConnell who elevate moral bankruptcy to an artform.

*Tilden (D), Cleveland (D-incumbent) and Gore (D) preceded Hillary in winning the popular vote but ended up conceding to Republicans who got the EC nod. There are actually five instances of the EC overruling the popular vote, but the candidates in the first who took each--Jackson (popular) and Adams (EC)--were both members of the Republican (then Democratic-Republican) party.

 

[Dotini]

Like it or not, the Electoral College is here to stay because of the Constitution. During the Civil War, Lincoln was able to suspend parts of the Constitution. So, lacking civil war, the next best scenario would be for increased divisiveness between left and right (begin with impeachment), then move on to open armed conflict, assassination, coup d'etat by CIA, establishment of temporary military government under martial law, followed by suspension of key provisions , articles and amendments of the Constitution until an authoritarian socialist revolution can be maintained as ongoing paradigm.

@PocketZeven
Pete Bootah-zhay's biggest problem is he's a white man. The Democratic Party is currently having a conversation with itself whether or not a white man can be the face of the Party.

 

[PocketZeven]

Not pessimistic, but realistic. We got to where we are in the world today by being smarter, more ruthless and better organized than the others. Kensington, not Kinshasa, is the zenith of civilization on Earth. There are twenty-some odd Dems in the running. If their process is as usual, the ultimate nominee will likely be the most monied, best organized and ruthless, the best candidate money can buy.

Except Bernie.

 

[Dotini]

Except Bernie.

Bernie's biggest problems are that he is an old, very, very old white man, and now a millionaire. Can he really still speak for today's working class demographic?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rking-class-americans/?utm_term=.41207aa3fb27

 

[TenEightyOne]

Bernie's biggest problems are that he is an old, very, very old white man, and now a millionaire. Can he really still speak for today's working class demographic?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rking-class-americans/?utm_term=.41207aa3fb27

It depends on whether or not that demographic thinks he can, however crazy the idea may seem. Trump is a very good example of that. Actually, so are most career politicians.

 

[Dotini]

It depends on whether or not that demographic thinks he can, however crazy the idea may seem. Trump is a very good example of that. Actually, so are most career politicians.

In Seattle, I know some of Bernie's support is migrating to Kamala.