America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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A group of people having serious faces because a bunch of highly trained men are on a search and destroy mission on someone who deserves to die.

You're searching for things that aren't there, apart from Trump maybe wanting to be in the centre of the picture.

Boo frikkin' hoo.

Did you even hear his speech concerning the operation succes? He made it all about himself again. That reflects exactly the photographs. Trump ranted almost an hour vs Obama's 9 mins (Bin Laden).

Uhhh...oookaaay? Is that a particularly useful metric by which to compare two broadly similar images?

If the image on the left has 765 vibes, a quarter of which are light teal in color, and the image on the right has just 369 vibes--less than half the number of vibes--but a whopping 97% of them smell like freshly laundered pillowcases, precisely what does that tell us?

Nope, that wasnt the intention. Just shared it, you can make your own opinion about the photo's.
 
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Just spent 10 minutes watching the TV show 'The Real', bash Trump over a meal served to someone on AF1. Good god people, he ain't the cook!
 
Epstein was probably murdered? I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you.

notsurprisedkirk.jpg
 
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"It's a sad day because nobody comes to Congress to impeach a president of the United States. No one," [Pelosi] told reporters. "We come here to do the work, make the future better for our children, for America's future. We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and that's what we cannot ignore and will not ignore when the president's behavior indicates that that investigation, that inquiry, is necessary."
 
It's not the party that has really been stunning to me, it's the average joe that sticks by them. It's not so much the lying politicians, it's the willingness to believe... that's what surprises me.

Never underestimate Boomers*, perhaps the most gullible and fragile generation in the last 200 years. These are people who will believe literally anything you tell them, have a sickening trust of the US government, and somehow don't think getting free money and healthcare is socialism.

Basically, most Republicans just tell Boomers what they want to hear and they eat it up without ever using their brains. Then Karen posts someone on Facebook where all here Boomer friends think it's the truth (an example being Obama is a Middle Eastern Terrorist Nazi who eats babies for brunch). Couple this with the inability to Google anything and they pretty much just accept the media at face value.

I firmly believe this is how we got to this point in America. Also, young people don't vote because they're so disenfranchised with politics in general. Also, their parents, the media, etc have drilled into them that third parties aren't valid. I'm guessing if that narrative wasn't so strong you'd see an explosion of Libertarian and Green Party voters among voters under 30.

*Not all Boomers
 
The blatant disingenuousness of the Republican party will stick with me for a long, long time. I'm sure many other fellow independents feel the same.

I used to talk about this a lot until recently when the Dems raised themselves to the same level.

As for Epstein it's not surprising that both sides of the political establishment would bury the hatchet to remove Epstein and push on like nothing happened. Can you imagine if Trump AND the Clintons had both been implicated and we had an actual swamp draining moment?
 
What are you referring to specifically?

At least the idea that more progressive politics tended to be aimed at improving the lives for workers but then most of people who could be considered working class were predominantly Republican or at least that was the case in the area I lived in.

As for Trump I agree no one has hit his level but he's also been an enigma in that no one can really predict what he's going to do, which is obviously not something you want in a leader. That said you also had Hillary who was someone who was known to be hawkish and was one of the most establishment backed candidates, yet failed to win twice. Part of the issue with the dems is that every issue they've tried to call him on, like influencing the election results or lying is something that at least one of his opponents has blatantly done, particularly with the DNC and Hillary railroading Bernie in 2016, and then Warren with claiming to be Native American and also stating that she was fired from her teaching job for getting pregnant when she actually wasn't. The only thing Trump is skilled at whether intentionally or not is trolling and the dems keep giving him talking points like in these cases which makes it difficult to really separate whether either side has any real difference, given that it appears neither cares for actually improving the lives of Americans.

My answer may be a bit biased in that I'm a strong supporter of eliminating the two party system and being independent, as well as removing group think and the polarization that comes with the U.S. having a two party system.
 
At least the idea that more progressive politics tended to be aimed at improving the lives for workers but then most of people who could be considered working class were predominantly Republican or at least that was the case in the area I lived in.

As for Trump I agree no one has hit his level but he's also been an enigma in that no one can really predict what he's going to do, which is obviously not something you want in a leader. That said you also had Hillary who was someone who was known to be hawkish and was one of the most establishment backed candidates, yet failed to win twice. Part of the issue with the dems is that every issue they've tried to call him on, like influencing the election results or lying is something that at least one of his opponents has blatantly done, particularly with the DNC and Hillary railroading Bernie in 2016, and then Warren with claiming to be Native American and also stating that she was fired from her teaching job for getting pregnant when she actually wasn't. The only thing Trump is skilled at whether intentionally or not is trolling and the dems keep giving him talking points like in these cases which makes it difficult to really separate whether either side has any real difference, given that it appears neither cares for actually improving the lives of Americans.

My answer may be a bit biased in that I'm a strong supporter of eliminating the two party system and being independent, as well as removing group think and the polarization that comes with the U.S. having a two party system.

I agree the dems can be sketchy too. But it was balanced with the republicans being equally so, but Trump blew that to the stratosphere. Your best bet would be to vote for the party that is more likely to abolish the electoral college. Only then can independants have a real voice.
 
APart of the issue with the dems is that every issue they've tried to call him on, like influencing the election results or lying is something that at least one of his opponents has blatantly done, particularly with the DNC and Hillary railroading Bernie in 2016, and then Warren with claiming to be Native American and also stating that she was fired from her teaching job for getting pregnant when she actually wasn't.

I think you should consider the scale difference in misconduct, because it is enormous.

The DNC primary rules and system was in place before the 2016 election cycle. It's one thing to say it was a flawed system, its a different thing to say its on the same level as what Trump was accused of doing. Think critically here.

Warren stretching the truth about her life & experience? At worst it signals an ambitious politician spinning some yarn - in reality I think she is simply embellishing her story. Again...try to put it into perspective with Donald Trump's lifelong hackery and misdeeds, which has created unknowable numbers of actual victims. As a New York resident and, I assume, tax payer, you are probably one of them. They are not even comparable.

Edit: If empowering third party candidates/parties is important to you, do what you can to get ranked choice voting enacted in your state. It starts with signatures and letters to your state representative. Do it today, if you can.

It's not the party that has really been stunning to me, it's the average joe that sticks by them. It's not so much the lying politicians, it's the willingness to believe... that's what surprises me.

The thing that gets me is that the Republican leadership know he is garbage. The average Joe is so brainwashed by Hannity & Co (and also Trump himself) that they genuinely believe Trump is the Great Leader he says he is. I do find it Ironic that so many Trump supporters think they hate countries like Iran and North Korea but would probably not object to Trump declaring himself the Supreme Leader of the United States for life and forming a theological republic in Iran's image.
 
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At least the idea that more progressive politics tended to be aimed at improving the lives for workers but then most of people who could be considered working class were predominantly Republican or at least that was the case in the area I lived in.

I'm not sure what your point is here, but it seems to be "Democrats say they're for the working man, but since the working man usually votes Republican, that proves the Democrats are wrong/bad/whatever."

Besides being nonsense, this take ignores the fact that many members of the working class have often voted against their own economic self-interest because their fear of brown people or heathens or whatever overrode everything else. Your observation says nothing about the Democratic party, and everything about how easily voters can be lead around through fear mongering.
 
Never underestimate Boomers*, perhaps the most gullible and fragile generation in the last 200 years. These are people who will believe literally anything you tell them, have a sickening trust of the US government, and somehow don't think getting free money and healthcare is socialism.

Basically, most Republicans just tell Boomers what they want to hear and they eat it up without ever using their brains. Then Karen posts someone on Facebook where all here Boomer friends think it's the truth (an example being Obama is a Middle Eastern Terrorist Nazi who eats babies for brunch). Couple this with the inability to Google anything and they pretty much just accept the media at face value.

I firmly believe this is how we got to this point in America. Also, young people don't vote because they're so disenfranchised with politics in general. Also, their parents, the media, etc have drilled into them that third parties aren't valid. I'm guessing if that narrative wasn't so strong you'd see an explosion of Libertarian and Green Party voters among voters under 30.

*Not all Boomers

Geez ... that's blatant ageism (again)!

I think you're too young to appreciate how off-base this is. The Boomer generation (not all Boomers) were the ones questioning everything - protesting the Vietnam war, undermining traditional social mores (prejudices), promoting personal choice & liberty & distrusting the government. It was young Boomers who fought & sometimes died supporting de-segregation & civil rights, who advanced women's liberation & who were shot dead at Kent State etc.

The reality is, people (of all generations) are heavily conditioned by their upbringing & life circumstances. I don't think that's changed much from generation to generation. There's a significant number of people in America's "fly-over" areas who are fundamentally conservative, because that's what their upbringing & life experience has taught them. The American political system heavily weights the electoral system to favour conservative areas of the country - these are not people who were "archetypical" Boomers in their youth.

The problem, as discussed elsewhere, is not so much that people believe that "third parties" aren't valid ... it's that the system itself is heavily weighted against the emergence of alternative parties.
 
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Geez ... that's blatant ageism (again)!

I think you're too young to appreciate how off-base this is. The Boomer generation (not all Boomers) were the ones questioning everything - protesting the Vietnam war, undermining traditional social mores (prejudices), promoting personal choice & liberty & distrusting the government. It was young Boomers who fought & sometimes died supporting de-segregation & civil rights, who advanced women's liberation & who were shot dead at Kent State etc.

The reality is, people (of all generations) are heavily conditioned by their upbringing & life circumstances. I don't think that's changed much from generation to generation. There's a significant number of people in America's "fly-over" areas who are fundamentally conservative, because that's what their upbringing & life experience has taught them. The American political system heavily weights the electoral system to favour conservative areas of the country - these are not people who were "archetypical" Boomers in their youth.

The problem, as discussed elsewhere, is not so much that people believe that "third parties" aren't valid ... it's that the system itself is heavily weighted against the emergence of alternative parties.

And yet, if we look at Boomers now their world view is vastly different. This is a group where probably a majority of them are deeply Islamophobic, are against gay rights, think abortion should be illegal, supports asinine things like a border wall, favor things like the Patriot Act because they "have nothing to hide", and are completely OK with the government control their lives. Nevermind that it's the same group that is more often than not staunchly against welfare of any kind and socialism medicine despite getting a check once a month for doing nothing and getting healthcare that's incredibly subsidized. What's even better is when you point this out to someone who's say, 65, they flip out because you want to take away their free income and healthcare or simply suggest giving it to those who can't make a living.

Is it all Boomers? Of course not, but it seems to be the MO of the generation more often than not.

And am I being ageist? Sure, I'm not going to deny that, but I've dealt with the Boomer mentality long enough where it wears on me after a while. I work hard and see large chunks of my paycheck going to support things like Social Security and Medicare. I'm tired of giving up on things like Facebook because all it seems to be anymore is Boomers posting things about how the American flag is supposed to offend someone and they don't care if it does. And I grow weary of having to listen to co-workers, family members, and strangers spew outright hate because "it's the way they were brought up".

Also, nevermind that Boomers can't see to get it straight that Millenials aren't a bunch of Tide Pod eaters who want participation trophies, safe spaces, and get "triggered". Millennials are those who are in their late 20's to late 30's. We're trying to hold a job, pay student loans, and live in a housing market that Boomers absolutely wrecked.

I'm probably unreasonably angry about this, but it's something that has grated on me ever since I became a functioning adult.

===

Regarding third parties, I do agree the system is broken. I used to believe the electoral college made sense, but after researching it more my opinion on that has changed. A popular vote probably makes more sense. But, if you're going to keep electoral votes, at the very least they should be divided based on the percentage a certain candidate gets in a state's popular vote.

Still, there are many people who won't vote third party because they think it's a wasted vote. As a result, third parties' don't get the votes and it self fulfills the prophecy.
 
And yet, if we look at Boomers now their world view is vastly different. This is a group where probably a majority of them are deeply Islamophobic, are against gay rights, think abortion should be illegal, supports asinine things like a border wall, favor things like the Patriot Act because they "have nothing to hide", and are completely OK with the government control their lives. Nevermind that it's the same group that is more often than not staunchly against welfare of any kind and socialism medicine despite getting a check once a month for doing nothing and getting healthcare that's incredibly subsidized. What's even better is when you point this out to someone who's say, 65, they flip out because you want to take away their free income and healthcare or simply suggest giving it to those who can't make a living.

Is it all Boomers? Of course not, but it seems to be the MO of the generation more often than not.

And am I being ageist? Sure, I'm not going to deny that, but I've dealt with the Boomer mentality long enough where it wears on me after a while. I work hard and see large chunks of my paycheck going to support things like Social Security and Medicare. I'm tired of giving up on things like Facebook because all it seems to be anymore is Boomers posting things about how the American flag is supposed to offend someone and they don't care if it does. And I grow weary of having to listen to co-workers, family members, and strangers spew outright hate because "it's the way they were brought up".

Also, nevermind that Boomers can't see to get it straight that Millenials aren't a bunch of Tide Pod eaters who want participation trophies, safe spaces, and get "triggered". Millennials are those who are in their late 20's to late 30's. We're trying to hold a job, pay student loans, and live in a housing market that Boomers absolutely wrecked.

I'm probably unreasonably angry about this, but it's something that has grated on me ever since I became a functioning adult.

===



Regarding third parties, I do agree the system is broken. I used to believe the electoral college made sense, but after researching it more my opinion on that has changed. A popular vote probably makes more sense. But, if you're going to keep electoral votes, at the very least they should be divided based on the percentage a certain candidate gets in a state's popular vote.

Still, there are many people who won't vote third party because they think it's a wasted vote. As a result, third parties' don't get the votes and it self fulfills the prophecy.


Joey ... you live in Utah.

The point is a large group of people ARE "deeply Islamophobic, are against gay rights, think abortion should be illegal, supports asinine things like a border wall, favor things like the Patriot Act because they "have nothing to hide", and are completely OK with the government control their lives." but I don't think that's a generational thing - it's (as I already said) a question of upbringing & life experience.

The "radical" Boomers were no doubt always a minority of their generation, albeit a significant & influential minority. They were excoriated by their elders for being trouble-makers & wanting to change things. But Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, Lindsey Graham, Gary Johnson - they are all Boomers. There really isn't a "boomer mentality". The life experience of Boomers is very different depending on geography, socio-economic class & other factors ... & I guarantee you that the succeeding generations will turn out with very much the same differences over time.

It is true that we are living through a disturbing time at the minute with a shocking retrenchment in attitudes. I can only hope that in the long march of history it will be seen as a temporary blip ...
 
Joey ... you live in Utah.

The point is a large group of people ARE "deeply Islamophobic, are against gay rights, think abortion should be illegal, supports asinine things like a border wall, favor things like the Patriot Act because they "have nothing to hide", and are completely OK with the government control their lives." but I don't think that's a generational thing - it's (as I already said) a question of upbringing & life experience.

The "radical" Boomers were no doubt always a minority of their generation, albeit a significant & influential minority. They were excoriated by their elders for being trouble-makers & wanting to change things. But Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, Lindsey Graham, Gary Johnson - they are all Boomers. There really isn't a "boomer mentality". The life experience of Boomers is very different depending on geography, socio-economic class & other factors ... & I guarantee you that the succeeding generations will turn out with very much the same differences over time.

It is true that we are living through a disturbing time at the minute with a shocking retrenchment in attitudes. I can only hope that in the long march of history it will be seen as a temporary blip ...

I definitely agree about Utah, it's strange. It's more or less a theocracy, but for whatever reason, it has one of the more vibrant gay communities in the nation and welcomes refugees with open arms. While I draw on some experiences I've had here, I've really only lived in Utah for three years now. For 29 years of my life, I lived in Michigan, which had its own uniqueness.

I know geography and even life experiences are going to vastly alter my perception of things. But I still think the generation you're apart of has a bunch to do with it. For example, in Michigan, I was surrounded by people who worked in the auto industry or at the very least a supplier for the industry. Those who'd only ever worked at a place like GM couldn't understand why I just wouldn't graduate high school and go work on the line, ignoring college completely. It never occurred to them that in 2005 working on the line was vastly different than working on the line in 1965. You weren't paid all that much, benefits were so-so, overtime was limited, and there wasn't much in the way of a pension. For the life of these people, they couldn't understand why I needed college at all.

They also couldn't understand why I lived at home until I was 25 and more than once, friends of my parents told them they should kick me out so I could find out what real life was like. Nevermind I was paying bills, trying to save enough money to afford a place of my own, and going through three separate layoffs at different companies. The attitude of these folks, all of the boomer generation, completely baffled me. Just because they seemingly had it easy, it didn't mean that anything was easy in the late 2000's...especially in Michigan where the economy was crap.

People from the GenX generation completely understood where I was coming from though. Probably because they lived through the boom and bust times of the 1980s.

But branching out from my own experiences, all you really have to do to see the generational difference is look at elected officials. For whatever reason in America, younger people just don't vote and older people (primarily boomers) do. Whether it has to do with time, apathy, or whatever I'm not really sure. When they do vote though (along with minorities) we end up with a president like Obama. When they don't, like they typically do, we end up with a president like Trump. While I'm not an Obama fan, I can completely understand how someone would like him and his ideas. With Trump, I can't fathom any reason as to why someone would want him representing America in any capacity. But then I look at my dad. While I love him dearly, he thinks Fox News is the most honest coverage around and that Obama is a Muslim. He's also very against welfare and the Affordable Care Act, but gladly accepts his social security check and Medicare, which are welfare and social medicine.

I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the world. I've only ever spent three months "living" in the UK while I did a study abroad and have only ever traveled to other countries for weeks at a time. I've probably spent the most time in Canada, but even then it was Windsor and that's just Detroit without rampant crime.
 
Alot of people love to vote against their interest because they overvalue their position and refuse to accept where they are.

Plus they love the sport of politics, it's all became very tribal, and while that all happens politicians who are more further away from the scope of the general public keep getting elected filling the Congress with Hacks who just accept whatever position their donors tell them to accept while talking X party talking points(while doing the opposite) as the people that voted them only care whether or not there is a R or D next to their name.
 
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