America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
  • 39,921 comments
  • 1,804,203 views
And yet, you seem obsessed by Trump.

"let's see what stupid thing that awful orange buffoon did today!"

You shouldn't worry so much about him, you have politicians in The Hague that are just as trustworthy as the folks over in DC.

Who are you quoting ?

Speaking about dutch politics on this Forum isnt really going to have a lot of people engaging. You would be surprised how Centre-right I am though.
That said, I am interested in US politics, but obsessed by Trump? No, not really. I also really dislike bullies.
 
Who are you quoting ?

Speaking about dutch politics on this Forum isnt really going to have a lot of people engaging. You would be surprised how Centre-right I am though.
That said, I am interested in US politics, but obsessed by Trump? No, not really. I also really dislike bullies.
You seem much more involved into US politics than most people who actually live in the US.. It’s not like you’re trying to hide your stance either, your post history makes that obvious.
 
Attorney General Bill Barr on the IG report into the investigation of the Trump campaign and presidency.

Remember when Trump said his wires were tapped, and the media called him crazy?

This thing ain't over by a long shot folks.

This video is cued, but I would encourage everyone to watch the whole thing.
 
You.



Something I couldn't care less about.



Yeah, you are. It's getting silly.


Good for you, but that isnt a quote from me though.

Its the current news cycle. If you prefer to put your head into the ground, that is your choice.

edit:

Attorney General Bill Barr on the IG report into the investigation of the Trump campaign and presidency.

Remember when Trump said his wires were tapped, and the media called him crazy?

This thing ain't over by a long shot folks.

This video is cued, but I would encourage everyone to watch the whole thing.


No the media called him crazy to accuse Obama for it. Bill Barr refuses to "believe" the conclusions of the IG report. I still dont understand why it is relevant in how the investigation got started? The Mueller Report already concluded there was Russian influence and Trump obstucted justice. What is investigating the origins going to do?
 
Last edited:
What is investigating the origins going to do?

That is a truly wonderful question, opening a Pandora's box of possibilities. But we must start somewhere. Below are some links I noted yesterday.

FBI spying, full blown investigation of Trump campaign.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/of-course-the-fbi-spied-on-the-trump-campaign
https://apnews.com/f2d8d48dede72f5ceb9883e97818caa2
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republ...llance-powers-they-long-supported-11576105389

“What happened here is the system failed. People at the highest levels of government took the law into their own hands,” said Graham
 
That is a truly wonderful question, opening a Pandora's box of possibilities. But we must start somewhere. Below are some links I noted yesterday.

FBI spying, full blown investigation of Trump campaign.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/of-course-the-fbi-spied-on-the-trump-campaign
https://apnews.com/f2d8d48dede72f5ceb9883e97818caa2
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republ...llance-powers-they-long-supported-11576105389

“What happened here is the system failed. People at the highest levels of government took the law into their own hands,” said Graham

Still none the wiser. If hypothetically there was some sort of violation. Trumps campaign was still proven to have had knowledge of Russian influence and Trump obstructed justice. Would that violation clear Trump of obstruction of justice?

Also hypothtically if the identity of the whistleblower is exposed and proven to have had been a democrat. Does that absolve Trump from asking a "favour" from Ukraine to discredit a political rival?
 
Still none the wiser. If hypothetically there was some sort of violation. Trumps campaign was still proven to have had knowledge of Russian influence and Trump obstructed justice. Would that violation clear Trump of obstruction of justice?

Hypothetically, maybe. For instance, if it were shown outgoing President Obama ordered the FBI to massively investigate Trump's 2016 campaign with half Trump's staff being secret agents wearing FBI wires, then that might obviate the legality of the investigation, and put the plotters in jeopardy themselves.

Also hypothtically if the identity of the whistleblower is exposed and proven to have had been a democrat. Does that absolve Trump from asking a "favour" from Ukraine to discredit a political rival?

Again, maybe. If that whistleblower turns out to be an agent controlled by the FBI in a sting ordered by leading Democrats, it calls into question the legality of the entire political system. A government of men, not of laws. Kind of a Wild West anarchy where all men are corrupt.
 
Hypothetically, maybe. For instance, if it were shown outgoing President Obama ordered the FBI to massively investigate Trump's 2016 campaign with half Trump's staff being secret agents wearing FBI wires, then that might obviate the legality of the investigation, and put the plotters in jeopardy themselves.



Again, maybe. If that whistleblower turns out to be an agent controlled by the FBI in a sting ordered by leading Democrats, it calls into question the legality of the entire political system. A government of men, not of laws. Kind of a Wild West anarchy where all men are corrupt.

Still those are seperate potential crimes. Even if you assume the IG report is incorrect and there was misconduct. Those crimes would not obsolve Trump and his campaign of anything though. If a person falsely reports me as a thief, but I get caught while thieving after the fals report anyway, would not mean I am innocent.
 
If a person falsely reports me as a thief, but I get caught while thieving after the fals report anyway, would not mean I am innocent.
The problem is, if you got caught stealing they are gonna try to pin the false accusation on you too.
 
Still those are seperate potential crimes. Even if you assume the IG report is incorrect and there was misconduct. Those crimes would not obsolve Trump and his campaign of anything though. If a person falsely reports me as a thief, but I get caught while thieving after the fals report anyway, would not mean I am innocent.
In the US, there are laws and regulations that must be followed when building a legal case against someone. If evidence is improperly collected, if the 4th amendment is violated, things of that nature, are improperly handled, then charges can, and often are, dropped.
I dont know how this relates to impeachment, but I dont doubt that any of the same laws and regs apply. If the evidence against Trump was gathered in a manner inconsistent with these regs, then, regardless of actual guilt, it will force a dismissal.
 
The problem is, if you got caught stealing they are gonna try to pin the false accusation on you too.

You are making my point. If you got caught stealing and they pin another false accuation on you, it doesnt make the first crime go away.

edit:reading error
 
Last edited:
You are making my point. If you got caught stealing, it really doesnt matter if the accusation was false or not.
And you missed my point. Instead of the 5 years you'd be doing for the theft you actually committed, you might be doing 10-20 years for the other theft you had nothing to do with or was a lie.
Not good right?
I get your point, but they like piling charges on people to get them to simply plead guilty.
Like when they catch a serial raper or thief. They'll try and find cases that are similar. They then will start adding charges and say, plead guilty and we'll drop these charges. Most people don't have the money to fight it and the "public defender" is usually in the loop if you know what I mean. So they plead guilty to avoid extra time even though they didn't do the other charges.

A few people have been killed in "swatting" calls. There's a thread here that talks about it.
We had a 92 year old lady get shot and killed in her own home over a "police informant" saying drugs were being sold out of the house. Which there were none.
No one in the police or the informant were charged and she's dead.
We had a similar situation were a little baby got severely injured from a flash bang that happened to land in his crib. No drugs either. The informant did get charged in that case.

It's a very slippery dangerous slope accusing someone of something they didn't do.

This is way off topic but I hope you get how starting an investigation or going all in on false charges can end up very badly.
It also makes me wonder what our legal system is coming to when you can simply lie to get the police to start investigating me...
 
And you missed my point. Instead of the 5 years you'd be doing for the theft you actually committed, you might be doing 10-20 years for the other theft you had nothing to do with or was a lie.
Not good right?
I get your point, but they like piling charges on people to get them to simply plead guilty.
Like when they catch a serial raper or thief. They'll try and find cases that are similar. They then will start adding charges and say, plead guilty and we'll drop these charges. Most people don't have the money to fight it and the "public defender" is usually in the loop if you know what I mean. So they plead guilty to avoid extra time even though they didn't do the other charges.

A few people have been killed in "swatting" calls. There's a thread here that talks about it.
We had a 92 year old lady get shot and killed in her own home over a "police informant" saying drugs were being sold out of the house. Which there were none.
No one in the police or the informant were charged and she's dead.
We had a similar situation were a little baby got severely injured from a flash bang that happened to land in his crib. No drugs either. The informant did get charged in that case.

It's a very slippery dangerous slope accusing someone of something they didn't do.

This is way off topic but I hope you get how starting an investigation or going all in on false charges can end up very badly.
It also makes me wonder what our legal system is coming to when you can simply lie to get the police to start investigating me...

I made on edit above. I read your reaction initially wrong.
 
In the United States, for as long as I can remember, the political left has been strongly associated with identify politics while the political right has been more associated with a more dry, policy-focused approach underwritten by religion and a conservative fiscal platform. The types of arguments presented by Republicans in 2019 would have been firmly labeled as "bleeding heart" 20 years ago, verging even on snowflake.

If the recent UK election can give us any insight (and I think it can) its that I think we are at an inflection point in the West. The right, it seems, is more tethered to identify politics than at any point since the 1930s. That's not to say the Left doesn't love good old identify politics...which may be precisely the challenge the left is facing, not only in our own country but throughout the world. It's hard to see what their platform is other than not-right, hardly a compelling message when politics have become so incredibly emotional and personal.

Whatever Libertarian & Constitutionalist undertones the Republican party once had have been completely consumed by Donald Trump. I think we need an emergent center with some real teeth.
 
In the United States, for as long as I can remember, the political left has been strongly associated with identify politics while the political right has been more associated with a more dry, policy-focused approach underwritten by religion and a conservative fiscal platform. The types of arguments presented by Republicans in 2019 would have been firmly labeled as "bleeding heart" 20 years ago, verging even on snowflake.

If the recent UK election can give us any insight (and I think it can) its that I think we are at an inflection point in the West. The right, it seems, is more tethered to identify politics than at any point since the 1930s. That's not to say the Left doesn't love good old identify politics...which may be precisely the challenge the left is facing, not only in our own country but throughout the world. It's hard to see what their platform is other than not-right, hardly a compelling message when politics have become so incredibly emotional and personal.

Whatever Libertarian & Constitutionalist undertones the Republican party once had have been completely consumed by Donald Trump. I think we need an emergent center with some real teeth.
That's a great idea, but the center has left the room. Centrists don't stand a chance at the primaries. We have deep-seated problems with differing visions of reality. This is sometimes referred to as postmodernism.
 
That's a great idea, but the center has left the room. Centrists don't stand a chance at the primaries. We have deep-seated problems with differing visions of reality. This is sometimes referred to as postmodernism.

It's pretty clear the only thing you actually like is the propagation of chaos. You want the world to burn for some reason. This is why you like Donald Trump.
 
Sen. Ted Cruz (R,TX) questions Inspector General Michael Horowitz about his IG report.

Listen to this, these are the facts.
 
In the United States, for as long as I can remember, the political left has been strongly associated with identify politics while the political right has been more associated with a more dry, policy-focused approach underwritten by religion and a conservative fiscal platform. The types of arguments presented by Republicans in 2019 would have been firmly labeled as "bleeding heart" 20 years ago, verging even on snowflake.

If the recent UK election can give us any insight (and I think it can) its that I think we are at an inflection point in the West. The right, it seems, is more tethered to identify politics than at any point since the 1930s. That's not to say the Left doesn't love good old identify politics...which may be precisely the challenge the left is facing, not only in our own country but throughout the world. It's hard to see what their platform is other than not-right, hardly a compelling message when politics have become so incredibly emotional and personal.

Whatever Libertarian & Constitutionalist undertones the Republican party once had have been completely consumed by Donald Trump. I think we need an emergent center with some real teeth.

The ideology of the left in USA can sort of be summed up by this image.


6BC402CB-370A-45A1-B79D-84DD0B59C112.jpeg


At one time there was some grounding to it, and it was a working persons party. Imo that is no more. The ideology is now propogating division over unity and hate over love. It’s the same all over with the ideologies on that side of things.
In the USA when you have people like Bill Maher telling you you have gone off the deep end and places like New York putting people in Congress who when they win shout things like “we are gonna impeach the mother&&$@#@“ it shows how far from anything good or useful those ideologies are becoming, how far from reality they are.
Trying to push these ideas that have no correlation to reality will never work. You can’t promote division and racial tension under the guise of equality and not piss people off.
It’s just not going to happen. So we see a correction, that’s part of it imo.
I mean it’s perfectly normal now to apply prejudice and bias to an individual and mock them as soon as they maybe admit they like the fact that say President Trump won. Particularly in an online environment the war of words begins immediately as soon as certain things are found out. This emanates from both left and right, but imo much more so from an AGGRESSIVE left.
This prejudice being applied, the fact that often it’s just a given that’s its time to attack, whether or not anything is known about the ‘other’ as Sartre called it....this behavior....it lacks utility completely. It’s action based on blind hate which promotes division.
It’s judging the same action in one context as horrible ignorance, but when that action is done by people on the friendly side of the aisle in a slightly different context it’s accepted. That’s hypocrisy and that’s where we are at, and people are tired of that bs.
People are tired of the behavior. They will vote differently.
I know myself personally, I laugh about it a lot with people from all walks of life in the day to day. Day to day the ‘conservative’ (whatever that even is anymore as you pointed outs) is not a Nazi as one might be led to believe from this postmodern divisive leftist ideology.
A lot of the things provided for you are provided by folks that lead very nice moral lives filled with hard work tolerance and respect for ones fellow humans. An awful lot of those that produce the most good affects are by people that are not nut job extremists from either side. So I think in a sense your post touched on some truth.
It’s quite evident to me for example when reading postings online that the same people who claim to be the most fair and lecture all of us on equality and everything else and bullying etc are often the first ones to dogpile in in disrespectful attacks which are the ideological equivalent of gang violence.
I have a problem with that. The biggest reason is it has nothing to do with communication. Reality on the street is not that way for the most part, it’s almost more of an emergent property of technology. The bottom line is there are many ways things change over time but now the pendulum is swinging back towards tradition a bit because people are sick of the left.



E5A13920-E88C-41D8-A6A8-93CA223E9117.jpeg
 
The ideology of the left in USA can sort of be summed up by this image.


View attachment 873260

At one time there was some grounding to it, and it was a working persons party. Imo that is no more. The ideology is now propogating division over unity and hate over love. It’s the same all over with the ideologies on that side of things.
In the USA when you have people like Bill Maher telling you you have gone off the deep end and places like New York putting people in Congress who when they win shout things like “we are gonna impeach the mother&&$@#@“ it shows how far from anything good or useful those ideologies are becoming, how far from reality they are.
Trying to push these ideas that have no correlation to reality will never work. You can’t promote division and racial tension under the guise of equality and not piss people off.
It’s just not going to happen. So we see a correction, that’s part of it imo.
I mean it’s perfectly normal now to apply prejudice and bias to an individual and mock them as soon as they maybe admit they like the fact that say President Trump won. Particularly in an online environment the war of words begins immediately as soon as certain things are found out. This emanates from both left and right, but imo much more so from an AGGRESSIVE left.
This prejudice being applied, the fact that often it’s just a given that’s its time to attack, whether or not anything is known about the ‘other’ as Sartre called it....this behavior....it lacks utility completely. It’s action based on blind hate which promotes division.
It’s judging the same action in one context as horrible ignorance, but when that action is done by people on the friendly side of the aisle in a slightly different context it’s accepted. That’s hypocrisy and that’s where we are at, and people are tired of that bs.
People are tired of the behavior. They will vote differently.
I know myself personally, I laugh about it a lot with people from all walks of life in the day to day. Day to day the ‘conservative’ (whatever that even is anymore as you pointed outs) is not a Nazi as one might be led to believe from this postmodern divisive leftist ideology.
A lot of the things provided for you are provided by folks that lead very nice moral lives filled with hard work tolerance and respect for ones fellow humans. An awful lot of those that produce the most good affects are by people that are not nut job extremists from either side. So I think in a sense your post touched on some truth.
It’s quite evident to me for example when reading postings online that the same people who claim to be the most fair and lecture all of us on equality and everything else and bullying etc are often the first ones to dogpile in in disrespectful attacks which are the ideological equivalent of gang violence.
I have a problem with that. The biggest reason is it has nothing to do with communication. Reality on the street is not that way for the most part, it’s almost more of an emergent property of technology. The bottom line is there are many ways things change over time but now the pendulum is swinging back towards tradition a bit because people are sick of the left.



View attachment 873271


Oh wait this isn't part of the script you where told.
 
The ideology of the left in USA can sort of be summed up by this image.


View attachment 873260

At one time there was some grounding to it, and it was a working persons party. Imo that is no more. The ideology is now propogating division over unity and hate over love. It’s the same all over with the ideologies on that side of things.
In the USA when you have people like Bill Maher telling you you have gone off the deep end and places like New York putting people in Congress who when they win shout things like “we are gonna impeach the mother&&$@#@“ it shows how far from anything good or useful those ideologies are becoming, how far from reality they are.
Trying to push these ideas that have no correlation to reality will never work. You can’t promote division and racial tension under the guise of equality and not piss people off.
It’s just not going to happen. So we see a correction, that’s part of it imo.
I mean it’s perfectly normal now to apply prejudice and bias to an individual and mock them as soon as they maybe admit they like the fact that say President Trump won. Particularly in an online environment the war of words begins immediately as soon as certain things are found out. This emanates from both left and right, but imo much more so from an AGGRESSIVE left.
This prejudice being applied, the fact that often it’s just a given that’s its time to attack, whether or not anything is known about the ‘other’ as Sartre called it....this behavior....it lacks utility completely. It’s action based on blind hate which promotes division.
It’s judging the same action in one context as horrible ignorance, but when that action is done by people on the friendly side of the aisle in a slightly different context it’s accepted. That’s hypocrisy and that’s where we are at, and people are tired of that bs.
People are tired of the behavior. They will vote differently.
I know myself personally, I laugh about it a lot with people from all walks of life in the day to day. Day to day the ‘conservative’ (whatever that even is anymore as you pointed outs) is not a Nazi as one might be led to believe from this postmodern divisive leftist ideology.
A lot of the things provided for you are provided by folks that lead very nice moral lives filled with hard work tolerance and respect for ones fellow humans. An awful lot of those that produce the most good affects are by people that are not nut job extremists from either side. So I think in a sense your post touched on some truth.
It’s quite evident to me for example when reading postings online that the same people who claim to be the most fair and lecture all of us on equality and everything else and bullying etc are often the first ones to dogpile in in disrespectful attacks which are the ideological equivalent of gang violence.
I have a problem with that. The biggest reason is it has nothing to do with communication. Reality on the street is not that way for the most part, it’s almost more of an emergent property of technology. The bottom line is there are many ways things change over time but now the pendulum is swinging back towards tradition a bit because people are sick of the left.



View attachment 873271

Do you think there is no reason to dislike Donald Trump? Honest question.

If you write off all of the Left's fury as "blind hate" then I think you are giving an unreasonably shallow read of the situation. Here's a question for you: Was it in good faith or bad faith that Donald Trump's EPA threatened California over its air quality while simultaneously attempting to revoke California's waiver to set it's own, more stringent emissions standards? What about the issue of Donald Trump's EPA suing the city of San Francisco, preposterously, for homelessness under the guise of pollution. Oh, then there's the attempts to force the state to permit offshore oil drilling (while giving an exemption to his more closely-held Florida) and his threats to withhold disaster relief funding? (ironically, the areas most effected by wild fires are conservative). Is he trolling? Is he grandstanding? Is he genuinely trying to make lives more difficult/worse for residents of California? Can you imagine a President of the United States deliberately attempting to make life worse for Americans because some politicians in that state don't like him? I would gladly have a discussion about any of those specific examples in good faith, but it's really hard to see his actions as done in good faith. I hope you can at least try to see these issues I've presented not from a "well they get what's coming to them!" way and more a "a lot of people effected by this are not involved in the bitter disputes and are collateral damage" kind of way. You know, like you alluded to in your post.

The incongruity of your post in the context of your support for a man who bullies a 16 year old girl on twitter is mind blowing. Did you expect the discourse in Washington DC to be civil with someone like Donald Trump as president? That's an honest question. Don't mistake any of my posts for wholesale condemnation of all conservatives - I'm from semi-rural Texas, I maintain relationships with a lot of people I wouldn't agree with politically. Try to differentiate between "dogpiles [of] disrespectful attacks" and good-faith criticism because I think you are conflating the two. Believe it or not, support for Donald Trump and the man himself are legitimately subject to criticism.
 
Do you think there is no reason to dislike Donald Trump? Honest question

Come on, of course not.

If you write off all of the Left's fury as "blind hate" then I think you are giving an unreasonably shallow read of the situation. Here's a question for you: Was it in good faith or bad faith that Donald Trump's EPA threatened California over its air quality while simultaneously attempting to revoke California's waiver to set it's own, more stringent emissions standards? What about the issue of Donald Trump's EPA suing the city of San Francisco, preposterously, for homelessness under the guise of pollution. Oh, then there's the attempts to force the state to permit offshore oil drilling (while giving an exemption to his more closely-held Florida) and his threats to withhold disaster relief funding?

Well, was it in good faith or bad faith that cities in Ca went rogue and declared themselves sanctuaries to illegal immigrants? Was it in good faith that Ca allowed a massive amount of illegal immigrants in over the last however many years? Was it in good faith or bad faith that the regulators in Ca (govt) responsible for overseeing proper maintenance of the electrical and gas infrastructure company didn’t do so and allowed a large utility to defer the proper maintenance procedures? (Probably while taking money from them to look the other way). Was that all great dandy good govt good corporation? I don’t personally think so.
Perhaps it was in some people’s minds good faith to in some cases shutdown logging operations in the forests and leave the trees there instead of selectively logging and properly managing them so that instead of going up in smoke the wood could have been put to good use. People literally do hug trees, and they are very idealistic and they do believe that preventing all trees from being cut is a good thing. Imo it isn’t.
The air board in Ca is another story. They manage a lot of policies regarding clean affect a lot of individuals as well as companies and also govt infrastructure. In some cases their primary aim is revenue generation more than environmental protection.
They make policies over all sorts of equipment, I could tell you many interesting stories about that bureaucracy but I do think they are needed. I would just like to see them staffed with better people better qualified folks from a technical standpoint.
Also re homelessness citizens formed up and placed large boulders seriously in the way to prevent the defecation piles public urination and needles which are a tripping hazard caused by the homeless that are always there. I believe the city removed the barriers! To be fair homelessness is a huge issue there, and many of the storm drains go into the waterways, but yeah, it’s a vendetta. I do believe in some areas citizens have had to band up to form ‘poop patrols’ cleaning up human feces from the streets. I mean that sincerely. Like a lot of people I don’t think the president appreciates the behavior of many of the politicians.
But you must admit, there is a federal govt that does exist.
So yes, definitely politics in play, However lots of problems. Tons of problems.
Lots of money changing hands, no different than anywhere really. That’s my opinion.

The incongruity of your post in the context of your support for a man who bullies a 16 year old girl on twitter is mind blowing. Did you expect the discourse in Washington DC to be civil with someone like Donald Trump as president? That's an honest question. Don't mistake any of my posts for wholesale condemnation of all conservatives

I will decline to comment on Greta. But, then again, what should gender matter? She’s basically treated on world stage like an adult? She throws a lot of barbs? Isn’t turnabout FairPlay? Or is she untouchable because she’s a young girl?
Re the last part...I get it. Dems lost an election every pundit told them belonged to them. They were unable to realize the dream
they had of basically controlling everything completely Nd being able to legislate unchecked by much opposition.
My personal take though, is that we are all Americans and we all ought to hold a certain attitude with regard to elected officials.
We elected them after all. Anymore what bothers me is the aggressive argumentation when it has nothing to do with anything other than repeating a message and trying to shove it down people’s throats.
That’s just not how we move forward as a society.
There’s a lot to be said about the environment and events in CA. The majority have voted for policies that ‘sound green’ it feels good, but imo each policy needs to be looked at scientifically, just prohibiting trees from being cut sounds great to the city dwelling folks and people who don’t look at the big picture about forest management.
Sometimes I honestly wonder if people aren’t more concerned with hugging trees than managing them. Infrastructure maintenance is a large issue everywhere but no one wants to talk about it much unless it’s related to traffic, then the power goes out and people get pissed. But look at the overall situation and corruption that allowed that system to get to the state it’s in.
One aspect of that is the tree huggers making it harder and harder to keep powerlines clear of trees!
So, yes, obviously I have a different view than is commonly voiced, and re the comment above I kinda take the idea that my writing seems scripted as it was put as a compliment. I enjoy writing stream of consciousness and sometimes it comes out well.
Cheers

Edit, I have not read this article, but the headline is what I am talking about above.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pg-e-c...in-2018-where-were-the-regulators-11575834385

In some cities near the bay, the left wingers try to take moral high ground, but sometimes they fail to see the forest through the trees...You can support ‘green energy’ all you want and that’s great but don’t forget all the transmission lines that green power goes through and the maintenance required to keep things safe or else all you accomplish is burning down forests and cities.
 
Last edited:
Come on, of course not.

Well, was it in good faith or bad faith that cities in Ca went rogue and declared themselves sanctuaries to illegal immigrants?
Was it in good faith that Ca allowed a massive amount of illegal immigrants in over the last however many years? Was it in good faith or bad faith that the regulators in Ca (govt) responsible for overseeing proper maintenance of the electrical and gas infrastructure company didn’t do so and allowed a large utility to defer the proper maintenance procedures? (Probably while taking money from them to look the other way). Was that all great dandy good govt good corporation? I don’t personally think so.
Perhaps it was in some people’s minds good faith to in some cases shutdown logging operations in the forests and leave the trees there instead of selectively logging and properly managing them so that instead of going up in smoke the wood could have been put to good use. People literally do hug trees, and they are very idealistic and they do believe that preventing all trees from being cut is a good thing. Imo it isn’t.
The air board in Ca is another story. They manage a lot of policies regarding clean affect a lot of individuals as well as companies and also govt infrastructure. In some cases their primary aim is revenue generation more than environmental protection.
They make policies over all sorts of equipment, I could tell you many interesting stories about that bureaucracy but I do think they are needed. I would just like to see them staffed with better people better qualified folks from a technical standpoint.

Whataboutism strikes again! I noticed you didn't attempt to say any of the Trump administrations effort were done in good faith, rather you condone them as retribution. So you're argument is: The people of California deserve to be punished by the federal government for the policies that they have adopted within their own state - even if they themselves don't agree with California's policies.

Also re homelessness citizens formed up and placed large boulders seriously in the way to prevent the defecation piles public urination and needles which are a tripping hazard caused by the homeless that are always there. I believe the city removed the barriers! To be fair homelessness is a huge issue there,

I'm in San Francisco nearly every day. Haven't yet tripped..on a needle....Unless you meant the boulders. I haven't personally seen any boulders. San Francisco is a beautiful city and actually pretty clean outside of a few pockets (Tenderloin, Civic Center, parts of the Mission). Maybe you should visit and see for yourself? Sure there is some grit. I'd challenge you to name a US City that doesn't have some gritty areas.

and many of the storm drains go into the waterways,

Would you like to remain willfully ignorant on this issue? Or would you open to understanding this is complete bunk? Besides that, do you really care about the health and safety of San Franciscans? Or are you using the fictitious issue to virtue signal?

but yeah, it’s a vendetta.
I mean here it is. You recognize and seem to condone the President of the United States realizing a vendetta against his own people. Do you understand how monumentally vile this is? It's the stuff of African dictators.

I do believe in some areas citizens have had to band up to form ‘poop patrols’ cleaning up human feces from the streets. I mean that sincerely.
Almost correct - it's city employees. Homelessness is a problem that's proven pretty intractable. Would you suggest they don't pick it up? I'd love to have a good-faith discussion about homelessness in urban centers. It's absolutely a problem. But it's not something you can just make go away by switching to a less liberal local government, though I'll fully admit some of the policies do tend to encourage it. Again, subject for an actual discussion. Suing a city on the pretense of pollution to virtue signal on homelessness is just petty.

Like a lot of people I don’t think the president appreciates the behavior of many of the politicians.
But you must admit, there is a federal govt that does exist.
So yes, definitely politics in play, However lots of problems. Tons of problems.
Lots of money changing hands, no different than anywhere really. That’s my opinion.

I struggle to see your point here.


I will decline to comment on Greta. But, then again, what should gender matter? She’s basically treated on world stage like an adult? She throws a lot of barbs? Isn’t turnabout FairPlay? Or is she untouchable because she’s a young girl?

Decline to comment on Greta? Great idea! Maybe Trump should have done the same. He can do whatever he wants....but its hard to respect a grown ass man, who happens to be the most powerful man in the world, who taunts a child on the internet. No?

Re the last part...I get it. Dems lost an election every pundit told them belonged to them. They were unable to realize the dream
they had of basically controlling everything completely Nd being able to legislate unchecked by much opposition.

Can this talking point please die already? If anyone is still living in 2016 its team Trump. It's also completely irrelevant to anything discussed.


My personal take though, is that we are all Americans and we all ought to hold a certain attitude with regard to elected officials.
We elected them after all.

How do you feel about Alexandria Ocasio Cortez? Gavin Newsom? Ooh! Nancy Pelosi?

Anymore what bothers me is the aggressive argumentation when it has nothing to do with anything other than repeating a message and trying to shove it down people’s throats.
That’s just not how we move forward as a society.
There’s a lot to be said about the environment and events in CA. The majority have voted for policies that ‘sound green’ it feels good, but imo each policy needs to be looked at scientifically,


So does the will of the voter count or not? Seems like it's entirely within CA voter's prerogative to choose how they want to pursue their energy future. Do you refute that? It's one thing to say "I think they made the wrong decisions" and its quite another to say "Their decision is invalid because I disagree with it".

just prohibiting trees from being cut sounds great to the city dwelling folks
PG&E transmission lines travel though utility easements. Tree cutting is entirely their responsibility in these zones. Or do you think they are routing power through dense, uncleared forests?

and people who don’t look at the big picture about forest management. Sometimes I honestly wonder if people aren’t more concerned with hugging trees than managing them. Infrastructure maintenance is a large issue everywhere but no one wants to talk about it much unless it’s related to traffic, then the power goes out and people get pissed. But look at the overall situation and corruption that allowed that system to get to the state it’s in.
One aspect of that is the tree huggers making it harder and harder to keep powerlines clear of trees!

I think you are overselling how many "tree huggers" are out there. But sure. Let's have a frank discussion about forestry management as it is an important topic - it should probably include climate change. Lets not threaten to withhold disaster relief funds from victims of wildfires, though...that seems callous and childish, no?

So, yes, obviously I have a different view than is commonly voiced, and re the comment above I kinda take the idea that my writing seems scripted as it was put as a compliment. I enjoy writing stream of consciousness and sometimes it comes out well.
Cheers

It's hard to read is what it is.

Edit, I have not read this article, but the headline is what I am talking about above.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pg-e-c...in-2018-where-were-the-regulators-11575834385

In some cities near the bay, the left wingers try to take moral high ground, but sometimes they fail to see the forest through the trees...You can support ‘green energy’ all you want and that’s great but don’t forget all the transmission lines that green power goes through and the maintenance required to keep things safe or else all you accomplish is burning down forests and cities.

You know that PG&E is a private company don't you? Also I fail to see how green energy gets transmitted any differently than non-green energy.
 
Would you like to remain willfully ignorant on this issue? Or would you open to understanding this is complete bunk? Besides that, do you really care about the health and safety of San Franciscans? Or are you using the fictitious issue to virtue signal

Well, have a look...https://sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=152
It has do do with the equipment and systems that are in place, not an abstraction. I will respond to your points when I get a bit more time to do so properly, but I just read your comment comment about the drains and it popped out at me first.
I’ve spent plenty of time in the city.
 
Well, have a look...https://sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=152
It has do do with the equipment and systems that are in place, not an abstraction. I will respond to your points when I get a bit more time to do so properly, but I just read your comment comment about the drains and it popped out at me first.
I’ve spent plenty of time in the city.

Even a cursory look at a map would reveal that these storm drains are a very small minority of the total system infrastructure, far from homeless populations, and basically at the edge of the bay or ocean anyways. Do you really think this is an issue? And once again, do you really care about the people of San Francisco?

It's pure and simple trolling liberals. I don't even think you would disagree.
 
Even a cursory look at a map would reveal that these storm drains are a very small minority of the total system infrastructure, far from homeless populations, and basically at the edge of the bay or ocean anyways. Do you really think this is an issue? And once again, do you really care about the people of San Francisco?

It's pure and simple trolling liberals. I don't even think you would disagree.

Wait a minute how is pointing out a fact trolling?
I actually really like the city for many reasons. You claimed I was ignorant but in fact I wasn’t.
Above you mentioned the utility is a large private company but failed to address the large bureaucracy whose job it is to regulate it.
Further regarding the water quality issue, I personally have an interest in the water quality and it’s my and my children’s health.
You would be surprised what old illegal connections there are in these big cities which go into waters my friends and family swim in. That’s reality a lot of these pipes were not put in yesterday up to code with proper engineering. That’s unarguable fact.
Imo governance is not a pr contest is all I’m saying, there’s real work to be done on systems and infrastructure that is often ignored.
Also re feds vs local when CA repeatedly ignores federal mandates to me it’s utter disrespect for the rule of law.
Just like some of the illegal immigrants being moved out via Oakland airport as a slap in the face to the mayor there.
Yes these things happen it doesn’t mean we like it it’s just reality.
I think as individuals we really don’t have very different aims in life, but often differing ideology makes it hard to communicate. I hope that doesn’t happen here and tbh I am in the field right now or I would respond better.

Edit maybe you don’t kite surf or sailboard or swim or fish or crab in those waters but others do and it’s a concern.
 
Last edited:
Decline to comment on Greta? Great idea! Maybe Trump should have done the same. He can do whatever he wants....but its hard to respect a grown ass man, who happens to be the most powerful man in the world, who taunts a child on the internet. No?
Why?

Why do you feel the need that you have to even think about respecting his opinion? Why can't he just have his own? Why does it have to be in line with 'commonly accepted principles'? Why is there a need for everything to be scrutinized? Why can the opinion of the girl not be scrutinized? Is there no flaws whatsoever in even her own opinion?
 
Back