America - The Official Thread

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Eunos_Cosmo
For the Americans on the board (and I guess non-Americans too) where does the event of last week register on your scale of relative seriousness? I honestly cannot think of another event other than 9/11 that feels as heavy. Not the Oklahoma city bombing, not the unibomber, none of the mass shootings (though Las Vegas isn't far off). I think the Covid Pandemic, as a whole, feels more serious but man last Wednesday was wild. I'll rank it #2 most tectonic event of my lifetime.
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It's very scary to me. 9/11 was a life shattering moment but I didn't think at anytime that my personal life here would be effected. This thing feels different than that. If Trump can spread lies enough to fire them up to do that, what's next? What else would they do at his command? Attack politicians that won't support Trump? Would Trump give the green light for radical conservatives to attack liberals wherever they can find them? Would someone I work with be more than happy to put a bullet through my head because Trump told them it's ok now? I don't know. I don't know where this is headed from here.

Part of me would like to think that there is a fairly good chunk of that 75 million voter base of his that would abandon him after this debacle leaving maybe a much smaller hardcore dedicated band. But the damage Trump has done to future elections will take some time to undo. The narrative now going forwards will be that it's impossible for Republicans to lose elections unless they're rigged.
 
The perspective of the OKC bombing is interesting. In 1995 I was still living in Maine and it felt like it could have been a different country honestly. I moved to Texas 3 years after that, and I'm guessing it would have been more personally impactful had I been there in '95. I think that's also why 9/11 felt so unbelievable to me...growing up in such an isolated and tranquil place such as Maine really shields you from what is really out there. That illusion was broken fully on 9/11. In some ways, I think 1/6 feels similar. I've never really believed there was an alternate course for America, but last Wednesday revealed that there genuinely could be. The more I think about it, the more disturbing it is.
 
If I had to rank it:
1. 9/11: Everyone remembers where they were as long as they were alive.
2. Sandy Hook: While Columbine was definitely the "trendsetter" (I hate using that word in this context), Sandy Hook was the most egregious shooting due to children being targeted.
3. Oklahoma City Bombing: I'll admit this and Sandy Hook could be flipped but I was only 6 when the bombing occurred and I didn't have much memory of it.
4. Capitol Failssurection.
 
PzR Slim
Spot the difference.

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No difference. All antifa
 
Moments that have jarred my core are:
1. Though it posed no threat to democracy, the first space shuttle accident really felt like a global tragedy. I was deeply upset for those brave folks.

2. Oklahoma City bombing. Home grown terrorism shines it’s ugly face. McVay looked angry until the day he was lethally dosed.

3. 9-11. I almost re-enlisted in the Army after that day. I felt America was truly in danger.
Bless my wife for talking me out of that one. To damn old to be tromping’ around Afghanistan.

4. Wednesday’s assault on Democracy. Like you all, I watched in awe, in confusion, in anger at what was happening. The only patriots I know served honorably along my and other veterans side.
I do have my concerns that it’s not over and won’t be over for a long time. Especially after the alerts that came out today.
 
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WASHINGTON ― Capitol Police briefed Democrats on Monday night about three more potentially gruesome demonstrations planned in the coming days, with one plot to encircle the U.S. Capitol and assassinate Democrats and some Republicans.

On a private call Monday night, new leaders of the Capitol Police told House Democrats they were closely monitoring three separate plans that could pose serious threats to members of Congress as Washington prepares for Democrat Joe Biden’s presidential inauguration on Jan. 20.

The first is a demonstration billed as the “largest armed protest ever to take place on American soil.”

Another is a protest in honor of Ashli Babbitt, the woman killed while trying to climb into the Speaker’s Lobby during Wednesday’s pro-Trump siege of the Capitol.

And another demonstration, which three members said was by far the most concerning plot, would involve insurrectionists forming a perimeter around the Capitol, the White House and the Supreme Court, and then blocking Democrats from entering the Capitol ― perhaps even killing them ― so that Republicans could take control of the government.
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I was working in New Jersey, not too far from Newark Airport on Sept 11th, 2001. Not within direct sight of downtown Manhattan. But close enough that we could see smoke rising over the tops of buildings after the collapse of the North Tower. It was a horrible day. I remember trying to give my department a pep talk in the early afternoon before sending them home. And it was hard to keep a steady voice.

And in an ironic and sad twist, my wife and I had friends in Connecticut whose children attended Sandy Hook Elementary school the day of the massacre. I don't want to say too much out of respect for their privacy but both of their children were OK. The parents had more emotional scars and ended up moving from Connecticut the following year.

But I felt that both sad and tragic events had the affect of bringing us together as a society. (Except for that POS Alex Jones) And in general, yes, I still feel that about Washington DC. Though it's maybe still too close to feel it's true impact. But I feel the pendulum starting to swing back and the fact that many of these protestors are correctly being referred to as domestic terrorists is maybe the kick in the ass they need to understand that the majority of people in the country don't view them as patriots.

But the fact that 15,000 national guard will be in DC for the inauguration should give some indication of how far we've fallen as a society. And how divided we are. And how we've allowed the lies from Fox news pundits and Newsmax and OAN and Facebook hate groups and seditionists on Parler and the President himself to the point that people no longer trust the MSM is just sad. I never thought I would see the day that we needed thousands of troops in DC to protect us from ourselves. And I'm slowly starting to question the dangers of free speech and how it's abuse can lead to this.
 
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jjaisli
And I'm slowly starting to question the dangers of free speech and how it's abuse can lead to this.
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I was with you until this line. What Trump is doing (and he's the main vector of this) is not free speech. He's president, I'm not sure free speech is even a thing for him. Every word carries with it the office.
 
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Danoff
I was with you until this line. What Trump is doing (and he's the main vector of this) is not free speech. He's president, I'm not sure free speech is even a thing for him. Every word carries with it the office.
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It would be easy to say Trump is a special case. Clearly he is. But it's gone FAR beyond that. He has a LOT of enablers. And many of them at least claim to be journalists. I think you could make a case to hold them accountable. But in today's society, anybody with a Twitter account and enough followers has a voice that can be heard around the world.

I never wanted wanted Twitter to be moderated per se. Or any social media. I still don't. But as I said, I'm starting to see some dangers. I haven't really made up my mind. But I'm certainly struggling with it for obvious reasons.
 
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jjaisli
It would be easy to say Trump is a special case. Clearly he is. But it's gone FAR beyond that. He has a LOT of enablers. And many of them at least claim to be journalists. I think you could make a case to hold them accountable. But in today's society, anybody with a Twitter account and enough followers has a voice that can be heard around the world.

I never wanted wanted Twitter to be moderated per se. Or any social media. I still don't. But as I said, I'm starting to see some dangers. I haven't really made up my mind. But I'm certainly struggling with it for obvious reasons.
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Since Twitter is a private company, they are at liberty to moderate/ban as they please. The issue is it took them 4 years to act upon this due to "potential repercussions". It's extremely troubling that people either don't know what free speech is OR don't know that it CAN have consequences. What I would be interested to know is if the Internet becomes a public entity and treated like infrastructure, could there be any argument made against Twitter's (or any specific website's) moderation?
 
Blitz24
What I would be interested to know is if the Internet becomes a public entity and treated like infrastructure, could there be any argument made against Twitter's (or any specific website's) moderation?
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That's more or less what I was speculating. The fact that we have so many badly misinformed people out there (and not just here in the US) that are given to, or one could even argue, have been groomed to mistrust the MSM, I start to wonder if this could be something on the horizon. I find it a terrifying prospect and I think it's a mistake. But I start to wonder what our society will be like in 20 years and how we will get the news and how much misinformation will be out there and what steps we can take to fight it without giving up our freedom of expression. I think if at some point in the next year a large group of these Q-anon cultists come out and start shooting, we may all be taking a hard look at how such services are regulated.
 
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huskeR32
What I think the Democrats need to do is stop caring about the idea of compromise. Adding new states, or new SCOTUS seats, can be done with simple majority votes that are, on paper, now available to Democrats.
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Speaking of which, I wonder what the admission process would actually look like? Obviously it would take some time but I'm not sure how much time it would take. The new congress would have to pass HR 51 again which should work just fine, then the Senate will have to pass it with a simple majority which is possible. It would be hilarious to see all 50 Republicans vote against it, clearly for two reasons - they don't want to lose the possibility of easy Senate majorities, and they literally hate the idea of people having rights. I almost guarantee all 50 would vote against this. The president would have to sign off as well which is likely. At some point, a state constitution will have to be submitted and approved by Congress. After all that is done...uh...not sure what comes next? Muriel Bowser is the city mayor and there's no reason for me to believe that that would change. The city would still exist as it is within the State. I have no idea what the process is for choosing a governor and a state legislature but I imagine that would take some time. At what point is the area legally a state then, prior to organizing its government? Does the government have to be fully organized and declare itself operational to cement state status? This could take years.
 
Let's talk about some non-election/coup news. Apparently the powers that be in North Dakota want the rights to sue Facebook and Twitter, among other social media sites, for "censorship". If the bill passes, (it won't, and it won't be enforceable if Section 230 remains in effect but for stupidity's sake let's say it did) @TB might be prevented from using social media if he posts too much about snow in North Dakota.

North Dakota Legislators do not understand free speech and private companies.
 
Blitz24
Let's talk about some non-election/coup news. Apparently the powers that be in North Dakota want the rights to sue Facebook and Twitter, among other social media sites, for "censorship". If the bill passes, (it won't, and it won't be enforceable if Section 230 remains in effect but for stupidity's sake let's say it did) @TB might be prevented from using social media if he posts too much about snow in North Dakota.

North Dakota Legislators do not understand free speech and private companies.
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He looks like the kind of guy that would do that.

120299141_1421774844682490_6982638347038995178_o.jpg


And I'll never stop posting my grievances at snow!
 
TB
He looks like the kind of guy that would do that.

120299141_1421774844682490_6982638347038995178_o.jpg


And I'll never stop posting my grievances at snow!
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Look at the American flag cross on his lapel. All he needs is a little gun below that and he would be the poster boy for conservatives.
 
I'd say Rep. Lauren Boebert is kinda cute if she wasn't a high school dropout who has been arrested four times and married the pedophile convicted of exposing himself to her when she was underage.

This chick is like an extra from Trailer Park Boys. Her family even owns a restaurant in Rifle, Colorado called Shooters Grill where the waitstaff open carries and the checks say "Jesus loves you!" at the bottom.
 
I've noticed that National Review has come down nearly unequivocally against Trump since last week as opposed to Fox News which has demurred at best. It's pretty clear that traditional conservatives are a wholly separate bloc from Trump voters at this point. I'd guess that the Fox News bloc is probably twice as big. I think we're approaching a 60-70% dem, 25-30% trump, and 10-15% conservative electorate.
 
UKMikey
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and are never heard from again?
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TIL Twitter is the KGB confirmed.

Dude, this girl can get it. And by "get it" I mean get charged for inciting a riot. Now I've had my fair share of speeding tickets in the past and I learned my lesson. With all the chanting for law and order, apparently she "learned her lesson" that dodging court is a big no-no. Well, unless there's a metal detector outside the Capitol.

Eunos_Cosmo
I've noticed that National Review has come down nearly unequivocally against Trump since last week as opposed to Fox News which has demurred at best. It's pretty clear that traditional conservatives are a wholly separate bloc from Trump voters at this point. I'd guess that the Fox News bloc is probably twice as big. I think we're approaching a 60-70% dem, 25-30% trump, and 10-15% conservative electorate.
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They might be, but they aren't trying very hard to separate themselves. I mean, they did vote for him after all. They could've voted for a boring centrist but no, they weren't interested in that.
 
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I was reminded of this today from an article basically telling folks to not fall for the, "Trump & free speech is being attacked by Twitter; Trump tried to do the same back". I can't find the damn thing anymore, but I believe I found what it is referring to. And like all things Trump, there's a tweet for it as well.
The fact-checks attached by Twitter to a pair of Trump's unsubstantiated claims about mail-in ballots so angered the president that he threatened Wednesday — in a tweet, of course — to crack down on Twitter and perhaps delete the forum for 330 million worldwide users. "Republicans feel that Social Media Platforms totally silence conservatives voices," he said. "We will strongly regulate, or close them down, before we can ever allow this to happen." Later on Twitter, he also warned: “Big Action to follow." The White House director of strategic communications, Alyssa Farah, said an order of some kind regarding social media will be signed by Trump on Thursday.
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https://www.newsday.com/long-island...onavirus-deaths-fauci-cuomo-spacex-1.45004835

Trump lashed out at Twitter, comparing the fact-checking labels to censorship and accusing the social media giant of stifling conservative voices, though the president did not provide any examples to back up his assertion.

The president, who often uses Twitter as a megaphone to tout his victories and blast his critics to his more than 80 million followers, said Thursday that if he had the legal authority to do so, he would completely shut down Twitter.

"I think I'd be hurting it very badly if we didn't use it anymore," Trump said from the White House. "We have other sites we can use, I guess, or we'd have to develop other sites."
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https://www.npr.org/2020/05/28/8639...cutive-order-to-weaken-social-media-companies
 
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This is a failure on so many levels... A lot of people have "blood" and responsibilities in this debacle..
It is truly a crime against humanity IMHO.

trump, stephen miller and all those who have facilitated the separation must be held accountable.

The cruel act of separating the children will scar them for life...

I get that they should not cross the borders illegally, but as a so called world power government, you at least need to treat them humanly, push back without separating, but if you must at least keep track of who is who... How hard could it be?? Tag them the way Amazon tag their packages...

The way this has been handled, makes us a turd world country


IMHO: trump can be held liable/responsible/guilty just based on this action alone without talking about any other bad things he has done for the past 5 years at least.

Someone must be held accountable, the separation issue cannot just be shoved out easily like this.

I want to reemphasize: Steven Miller and Ali Alexander have got to be among the most dangerous people in this country....along with NewsMax, FoxNews, Q and all stupid people out there ... IMO.



As a father of two young daughters, my mind has been etched and marked by the famous photograph of the father and daughter both dead drowning face down by the side of the River (did they cross it after all?)
I get it was a foolish thing for him to do that and put his daughter in harm's way... But I personally don't know the situation and we dont know how desperate their situation was... People do foolish things in desperate situation... But it didn't have to come to this....


I will always mourn them and have a thought for them...

Someone must be punished for these inhumane situation...

There are dogs and pets better treated in this country...
Just because there is a line drawn on the sand...
(The other day, I saw an advertisement/commercial for dog's toothpaste and brush... WTF?!?). What about floss I ask !?!

We only have One Earth... When will people realize it...?
 
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