America - The Official Thread

[CTznOfTime]

Personally i also see situation the same way as @Outspacer

Most of us here, and Most of the republicans also unknowingly, and the Dems wants the stimulus to be much more than $2000... but realistically there are the governing Republican body who seem to be against anything more than $600...

Since the last number was $2000 was somewhat verbally approved, and that $600 was last approved by all for a second time, the difference is what the Dems wants to make up to match their initial intention...

More would be great for us the people, but Dems are working step by step against the reluctant Reps...

 

[Danoff]

Personally i also situation the same way as @Outspacer

Most of us here, and Most of the republicans also unknowingly, and the Dems wants the stimulus to be much more than $2000... but realistically there are the governing Republican body who seem to be against anything more than $600...

Since the last number was $2000 was somewhat verbally approved, and that $600 was last approved by all for a second time, the difference is what the Dems wants to make up to match their initial intention...

More would be great for us the people, but Dems are working step by step against the reluctant Reps...

I think they now have the votes to ram through just about whatever they want in terms of a dollar amount. They have to be careful about that though because as "measly" as these checks might seem, there are a lot of them, and the US government has been left with a lot of debt from the Trump admin (and of course all previous admins).

It's only if they want to tack on other relief provisions that they have to "work with" the republicans.

 

[Keef]

If I was getting an extra $2,000 a month I'd buy so much useless stuff. I guess it would help the economy though since I'd just be blowing through it instead of saving it, which means someone, somewhere would be getting income.

I feel you but I'm cautious as hell. If this were months ago I would literally just sit on it, maybe do some truck things. But right now that money would disappear as fast as I got it - $240/hr for the Aztek, before the instructor. I'm looking at spending 6-12 months of rent just to get a job. I planned on this over a year ago and somehow held the line instead of feeding my alcoholism and depression eating.

Bernie I need you!

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Any cent I get from the gvt goes straight into my house fund. Too bad inflation is gonna kick me straight in the nuts.

 

[Blitz24]

I feel you but I'm cautious as hell. If this were months ago I would literally just sit on it, maybe do some truck things. But right now that money would disappear as fast as I got it - $240/hr for the Aztek, before the instructor. I'm looking at spending 6-12 months of rent just to get a job. I planned on this over a year ago and somehow held the line instead of feeding my alcoholism and depression eating.

Bernie I need you!

As in a Pontiac Aztek? My mother had one for 15 years and finally had to give it up at around 65k because the undercarriage was rusting through.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Any cent I get from the gvt goes straight into my house fund. Too bad inflation is gonna kick me straight in the nuts.

Straight into my savings to combat inflation

 

[Keef]

As in a Pontiac Aztek? My mother had one for 15 years and finally had to give it up at around 65k because the undercarriage was rusting through.

Lmao no, a Piper Aztek. You know, one of many planes sold for several hundred thousand dollars and which have generated millions more and not given a dime to the Native American tribes who donated their namesake. If Piper would've been required to pay these tribes for their namesakes the tribes would've generated tens of millions of dollars for their people over the past several decades.

 

[Danoff]

Lmao no, a Piper Aztek. You know, one of many planes sold for several hundred thousand dollars and which have generated millions more and not given a dime to the Native American tribes who donated their namesake.

...that's not how trademarks work. American Standard plumbing has most likely never kicked a dime to America to use its name in the trademark.

 

[Keef]

...that's not how trademarks work. American Standard plumbing has most likely never kicked a dime to America to use its name in the trademark.

Yeah, they didn't build a fence around their land either did they.

 

[Danoff]

Yeah, they didn't build a fence around their land either did they.

I'm lost.

 

[Keef]

I'm lost.

You'll never complete your librul transition until you admit that Native American tribes should be given what they're owed!

 

[UKMikey]

Lmao no, a Piper Aztek. You know, one of many planes sold for several hundred thousand dollars and which have generated millions more and not given a dime to the Native American tribes who donated their namesake. If Piper would've been required to pay these tribes for their namesakes the tribes would've generated tens of millions of dollars for their people over the past several decades.

Oh yeah, it used to be the Apache, didn't it?

 

[Danoff]

You'll never complete your librul transition until you admit that Native American tribes should be given what they're owed!

I'm definitely interpreting this to be deep sarcasm, for lots of reasons. I'm gathering that your original trademark royalty comment was a joke that I missed. Carry on.

 

[Keef]

Oh yeah, it used to be the Apache, didn't it?

An evolution yes but they're quite different.

I'm definitely interpreting this to be deep sarcasm, for lots of reasons. I'm gathering that your original trademark royalty comment was a joke that I missed. Carry on.

It's not sarcasm. Piper in particular as well as the US government has been using Native American names and likenesses for many decades with no intention of asking for permission or providing compensation. But I suppose we expect the people who had all their stuff thoroughly stolen from Day 1 to go apply for a trademark.

The US has never properly addressed its blatant destruction of Native Americans.

Edit: Let's be clear. A percentage of every dollar that passes through American soil should be transferred directly to tribal organizations, because the ability to generate wealth on this land was stolen from them. 2019's GDP was $21,430,000,000,000 and if only one thousandth of a percent of every dollar generated were given to Native American tribes for the opportunity to generate wealth using their resources, they would have made a whopping $214,300,000. That's a drop in the bucket. That's only 10% of the net worth of Elon Musk, one man, and would be used to govern Native American nations and distributed among 5.2 million people of Native heritage. Think about that for a second: Elon Musk is so rich he could afford to make every single Native American a multi-millionaire overnight and mistake the loss as a market fluctuation. @Danoff

 

[Danoff]

An evolution yes but they're quite different.


It's not sarcasm. Piper in particular as well as the US government has been using Native American names and likenesses for many decades with no intention of asking for permission or providing compensation. But I suppose we expect the people who had all their stuff thoroughly stolen from Day 1 to go apply for a trademark.

The US has never properly addressed its blatant destruction of Native Americans.

Ah, well... a couple of things here...

1) The Aztec empire was not a tribe, and it did not exist in what is present day US, and it did not survive to the creation of the US. So let's dispense with that one immediately.

2) That's just not how trademarks work. You don't have to pay someone to use a name that they associate with, and it's not a matter of who files first for a trademark, it's a matter of marketplace confusion. Trademarks are not based on human rights, they simply exist to organize the marketplace and encourage accountability and investment into customer satisfaction. It's not the same as, for example, copyright, in that respect which is a very different beast.

I could create a company called Keef, and not pay you a dime for it, and if my company was recognized in the industry, I could file a trademark for it to prevent others from creating a Keef company and confusing my customers. Now, you could also create a Keef company, and file a trademark for it, and provided that it was not in the same industry, you might even get a trademark on it and be able to operate that company. The "Keef" name would not be exclusionary in the marketplace - the only time a dispute would occur is if the two of us attempt to sell "overlapping" products, essentially to compete against each other. If customers would get confused, it might result in only one of us being able to use the trademark (this kind of analysis takes into account branding too - like fonts, colors, images, etc).

If I stopped operating my company for long enough, you could take my trademark from me in my industry. Likewise if you did, I could take it.

We could go further down the rabbit hole and explain how Pepsi can use the term "Coke" without paying Coke (which they can do) as long as it's not misleading.

 

[Keef]

I could create a company called Keef, and not pay you a dime for it, and if my company was recognized in the industry, I could file a trademark for it to prevent others from creating a Keef company and confusing my customers.

You could, but to make this analogy work you'd first have to massacre my family, steal all our property, and then march any survivors west to the middle of the desert.

 

[Danoff]

You could, but to make this analogy work you'd first have to massacre my family, steal all our property, and then march any survivors west to the middle of the desert.

You see how that's unrelated right?

 

[Keef]

You see how that's unrelated right?

I do not. Criminals pay consequences. Our ability to speak English and have this argument on a website hosted in America is a direct result of Natives being raped and pillaged. We can and should spare a few bucks to support the few people who escaped atrocity. You can't just kill everybody first and then design a legal system which specifically excludes anybody who managed to hide in the bushes. The mere existence of our legal system was made possible by removing everything and everybody in the way first.

 

[Danoff]

I do not. Criminals pay consequences.

Who is the criminal?

Our ability to speak English and have this argument on a website hosted in America is a direct result of Natives being raped and pillaged.

I mean, if you want to follow that line of reasoning, it's the direct result of all of history. It's the direct result of a dinosaur eating another dinosaur.

We can and should spare a few bucks to support the few people who escaped atrocity.

Can you walk me through what this has to do with trademarks?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Can we address the fact that the Aztecs should have beef with Spain, not the USA?

 

[Keef]

Who is the criminal?

America the institution, and anybody who has benefitted from its existence.

I mean, if you want to follow that line of reasoning, it's the direct result of all of history. It's the direct result of a dinosaur eating another dinosaur.

Direct result of human history is arguable, but animals operate on survival instincts and are virtually incapable of choosing evil. Fact of the matter is that the elimination of Native Americans was chosen and legislated by the American government which is why the buck stops there. The British suffered their consequence, they were pushed out as they should've been.

Can you walk me through what this has to do with trademarks?

The mere existence of our legal system was made possible by removing everything and everybody in the way first.

Your trademark argument holds no water because the atrocities were committed before any of this stuff was even governable.

@Eunos_Cosmo We could circle back to the Apache @UKMikey but you get the point.

 

[JKgo]

An interesting debate, this. Couldn't help but butt in here, though:

America the institution, and anybody who has benefitted from its existence.

I broadly get what you're trying to say, as a similar concept is taking place here in South Africa, too - but the latter part of this argument doesn't seem right to me. Due to my job, I've benefited from America's existence. Does that I mean I owe the Native Indians, too? Despite not having literally any ties to them?

 

[Populuxe]

Trump's last approval rating: 34%
Trump's average approval rating over his presidency: 41%
Trump is the first president to never achieve 50% or better approval rating at any point in his presidency since Gallup started tracking it in 1938.
source

 

[Danoff]

America the institution, and anybody who has benefitted from its existence.

Then everyone everywhere is a criminal, through no action of their own. Does this make sense to you?

Fact of the matter is that the elimination of Native Americans was chosen and legislated by the American government which is why the buck stops there.

People did that... to people.

Your trademark argument holds no water because the atrocities were committed before any of this stuff was even governable.

But what does it have to do with trademark? Your argument would be better served if it were aimed directly at the US government. But trademark?

 

[TB]

If I was getting an extra $2,000 a month I'd buy so much useless stuff. I guess it would help the economy though since I'd just be blowing through it instead of saving it, which means someone, somewhere would be getting income.

I have a 16 and 14 year old. I'd be saving it for college to help offset what the 529 and any scholarships can't cover.

The other $4 would go to the Hawaii house fund.

 

[McLaren]

A $2000 check was promised originally, not a $600 check and then a $1400 check subsequently. Even with the $600 check being delivered a $2000 check was still promised, totaling $2600 in stimulus money. Unless I was wrong this whole time.

It’s poor wording and info on the Dems part but it was always going to be an additional $1400 bc all they would be doing is approving the $1400 through an amendment onto to the bill that granted the $600, thus bumping the total output to $2000.


As far as $2K/month, that’s a pipe dream IMO. As willing as the Dems are to approve more money again, many are still deficit hawks and there’s not a chance IMO, you’ll get them on board for $2k/month.

 

[Dennisch]

I don't understand why you should be getting a stimulus check at all. Unless you lost your job or a lot of your business due to the pandemic, why should the government give out money?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't understand why you should be getting a stimulus check at all. Unless you lost your job or a lot of your business due to the pandemic, why should the government give out money?

It's a social contract, people keep a government going so that the government can keep them going when the **** hits the fan. It's horribly socialist but kind of nice.

 

[Joey D]

I don't understand why you should be getting a stimulus check at all. Unless you lost your job or a lot of your business due to the pandemic, why should the government give out money?

They probably shouldn't, what they should probably do is invest in unemployment benefits and cut the taxes for all the people still working so they can put money back into the economy. You'll never get politicians to agree to that though because that $700 billion military machine isn't going to fund itself. Giving people a small bit of money makes it look like they're doing something while putting in the absolute least amount of effort.

 

[Lain]

The pardons are in: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...y-regarding-executive-grants-clemency-012021/