America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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It's amazing to me that this group seems to think that they're in favor of the constitution or rule of law.

The SC ruling feels like the end of America. But the pardon power was arguably the same thing. If the president can pardon themselves, they can break whatever laws and simply be above it. The supreme court is broken, but the presidency really is too powerful.
 
It's going to be a bit amusing when the Supreme Court's ruling comes back to bite a Republicans in the ass. A Democrat is going to do something, and the Republicans are going to try to remove them from office over it, only to find out that it was an official act and the president is immune. Those calling for Biden's arrest for him to be charged with...whatever they think he did are going to be in for a rude awaking too.

Also, if I under the ruling correctly, couldn't Biden order Trump to be assassinated and be completely immune to the fallout? I know he wouldn't do that, but he has that power now, right?
 
Joey D
Also, if I under the ruling correctly, couldn't Biden order Trump to be assassinated and be completely immune to the fallout? I know he wouldn't do that, but he has that power now, right?
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That does seem to be the case. The president can officially assassinate Trump (and supreme court justices) and pardon themselves or whatever. Congress can impeach and remove from office.
 
Danoff
That does seem to be the case. The president can officially assassinate Trump (and supreme court justices) and pardon themselves or whatever. Congress can impeach and remove from office.
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Just assassinate Congress too then.

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On a serious note, while immunity from prosecution for 'official acts' is perhaps necessary at times, criminal acts (like tampering with election results, incitement to overthrow the government etc.) should not be considered as official acts.

Or, at the very least, acts committed by an outgoing President designed specifically to oust a President-elect should be exempted, otherwise the USA may never hold a free and fair election again.
 
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Danoff
That does seem to be the case. The president can officially assassinate Trump (and supreme court justices) and pardon themselves or whatever. Congress can impeach and remove from office.
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The irony isn't lost on me that we just gave the president king-like powers a few days before the holiday where we celebrate no longer having to listen to a king.

I'll be curious to see how much a president leans on the ruling. Trump is a wild card if he wins because he could either go through with ordering the killing of whomever, or it could all amount to him being a cowardly blowhard where he continues to say stuff to earn him money. But going forward, I wonder if presidents will do whatever they want because of a lack of repercussions or if they'll continue to be mostly "presidential" and not act like a Banana Republic dictator.

I still think, on some level, the president needs a degree of immunity from things, but if the president commits a serious offense (assassination, treason, etc), then they should absolutely be put through the justice system.
 
Danoff
It's amazing to me that this group seems to think that they're in favor of the constitution or rule of law.

The SC ruling feels like the end of America. But the pardon power was arguably the same thing. If the president can pardon themselves, they can break whatever laws and simply be above it. The supreme court is broken, but the presidency really is too powerful.
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If there ever was a time to go out on the streets and protest, it would be now.
 
Dennisch
If there ever was a time to go out on the streets and protest, it would be now.
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Who is the protest for? The idea behind a protest is to catch someone's eye and make them change their mind. Is it for the executive? I'm doubtful that the Biden admin is likely to agree with this ruling. Is it for congress? Congress has its power, the same one it always has, impeachment. What do we want them to do? Re-iterate that they'll impeach?

It would be for the supreme court, and there is absolutely nothing that any protest is going to do about that. The time to protest was when the senate was hearing Trump's impeachments. They needed to convict.

The silver lining of this ruling is that it does't really change anything. It just makes explicit the ways we already knew that the presidency was broken.
 
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Danoff
Who is the protest for? The idea behind a protest is to catch someone's eye and make them change their mind. Is it for the executive? I'm doubtful that the Biden admin is likely to agree with this ruling. Is it for congress? Congress has its power, the same one it always has, impeachment. What do we want them to do? Re-iterate that they'll impeach?

It would be for the supreme court, and there is absolutely nothing that any protest is going to do about that. The time to protest was when the senate was hearing Trump's impeachments. They needed to convict.

The silver lining of this ruling is that it does't really change anything. It just makes explicit the ways we already knew that the presidency was broken.
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It would be to protest this current ridiculous decision by the SC. You cannot give a person the power to pardon himself.
Mass protests have effect. But you need the mass and that (just like here in the Netherlands) isn't going to happen. People prefer to complain online and that's about as much effort they're willing to put into it.
 
Dennisch
Mass protests have effect. But you need the mass and that (just like here in the Netherlands) isn't going to happen. People prefer to complain online and that's about as much effort they're willing to put into it.
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Mass protests can have an effect. This particular mass protest would be a waste of time. It would be better spent protesting Trump rallies, or calling for Biden to step aside, or protesting congress for not impeaching, or... lots of things. The supreme court knows you don't like it and they do not care.
 
Danoff
Mass protests can have an effect. This particular mass protest would be a waste of time. It would be better spent protesting Trump rallies, or calling for Biden to step aside, or protesting congress for not impeaching, or... lots of things. The supreme court knows you don't like it and they do not care.
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First one will probably result in the protestors getting killed.
 
So a President could theoretically send a letter on official POTUS letterhead to every member of congress telling them that if they vote to impeach/convict the president, that they will be designated enemies of the state and killed by airstrikes officially directed by the president. Without violating the constitution, per the SC, and provided the threat is successful, the president would then be completely immune from any accountability.
 
Danoff
Mass protests can have an effect. This particular mass protest would be a waste of time. It would be better spent protesting Trump rallies, or calling for Biden to step aside, or protesting congress for not impeaching, or... lots of things. The supreme court knows you don't like it and they do not care.
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An alternative I've seen being floated is for the Dems to do everything they can to win as many seats as possible in the 3 branches, and codify protections into law. Got to get over the hurdle of actually winning the elections, but iirc, the Dems have been doing well outside of the main one for Presidency.
 
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