America - The Official Thread

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It's not incompetence on his part, it's active malice. Trump/Musk/GOP has made it clear they don't want a shutdown and there's nothing to suggest there's any ulterior motives behind that.
I don't think that's accurate.
If there was a legitimate case, then how come literally every house Dem voted for the shutdown?
How long did you spend trying to answer this question and apparently coming up with nothing? I thought of a reason in 5 seconds - because it makes better press.
Besides, a government shutdown, even one that's comparatively lengthy, will be less destructive to the country than the GOP budget bill in the long term. It's not even a close call.
That depends on what gets done during the shutdown. I'm not sure how much you really considered the argument Schumer put forth.
It really says something that he's willing to appease the fascists simply because he won't be majority leader in the future (or even run for reelection if he opts for retirement) since that's the easier option than actual, meaningful resistance.
This is garbled. You're misunderstanding my own position and using that misunderstanding as a basis for claiming Schumer is doing something that it can't really be argued Schumer is doing. Schumer's not appeasing fascists, at least not according to his statements. He's preventing what he sees as greater control for fascists. And it was my statement that his career is probably ending, not his.

This response of yours is not really honest. I think you knew you were mashing up two different things to get to a different point. It's not something I want to spend much responding to other than to say that this kind of argument is a waste.
The Democrats can't bank on the fact that Trump's unpopularity will solely occur because of his own reckless governance and economic fallout, especially given how cultish MAGA really is- they're already blaming the falling stock market and looming recession on "fixing Biden's mess". Effective opposition from the Dems is a powerful, necessary tool to make Trump less popular and more hated. And that's the problem with Schumer- he's utterly incapable of meeting the moment.
I agree with most of that. Pelosi was the right person for the moment 5 years ago.
While (up until this moment at least) Schumer has been a fine statesman and voted the right way, this is not nearly enough. Schumer has no rizz. How many people are actually enthusiastic about him? He has governed like a bureaucratic administrator instead of a politician- which requires being popular- which is not only ineffective in regards to tackling Trump but also as the de-facto leader of an entire political party to begin with.
No argument.
The Dems need people like AOC and Bernie to replace Schumer and Jeffries. Whether they're "too far left" or not doesn't matter- they are literally the most popular and widely known Democrats and also the loudest, most fearless voices in the defense of democracy. Third Way neoliberalism is not only incapable of defeating fascism, but ill-suited to prevent it from taking hold in the first place. Moderate dems need to come to terms with the fact that literally any Republican is a much bigger threat than the progressive/leftist dems, which requires both a unified front and potentially ceding some of their influence in the party.
Yes but... Schumer is part of the team, and literal opposition to everything just because is it republican is counterproductive. For example, as much as I hate RFK Jr., he is doing a couple of things that are beneficial.
Here's the most likely scenario. Schumer, like Jeffries/house Dems, was initially on board with the shutdown. Then, he got some phone calls, from the party's biggest, most influential ultra-wealthy/corporate donors.
You avoid listening to Schumer's explanation, or immediately dismiss it in favor of cynicism and conspiracy. There is no need for this demonization. What you're accusing Schumer of doesn't just fail to fit his actions, it's also really immoral and dehumanizing. It doesn't fit the facts well, is wholly unnecessary to explain the facts, and goes out of its way to rip a human being to shreds, for no apparent reason other than what... to make you feel better or something?

It's vicious, and it's tough to watch.
So Schumer (assuming he doesn't run for re-election) is the fall guy. Almost the entire party is outraged by him, rightfully so, but in the end he faces no real consequences.
Being the fall guy, ending your career as a pariah and intentionally undermining your goals is no consequences? Are you paying attention to your own argument?
Democrats only have themselves to blame if they lose in 2026 and 2028
Aside from republicans sure.
Nevertheless, Schumer, and the 9 other "moderate" senate dems behavior is aiding and abetting a fascist takeover of the United States, full stop.
If you think you understand the situation better than they do and come to the conclusion that they're wrong, sure. My question is how you can manage to be so convinced of this that you state it as indisputable fact? If Schumer is right, he's fighting facists in the best way he could despite personal consequences. If Schumer is right, he threw himself on the grenade that is essentially comprised of you and your anger in order to fight fascism. You dismiss this so completely, so confidently, but you can't know that you're right.

Stop trying to eviscerate people that you don't know you should be eviscerating. Schumer is done anyway. Direct your ire at the republicans and Elon.
 
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Scary stuff.

Edit: BadBadNotGood

No-one suggest to Trump that once he's done deporting non-US citizens, that he take over Greenland and start deporting US criminals there...

Although if that fails, he could take inspiration from Russia -and build huge prisons in Alaska and ship criminals there instead.
 
So the Venezulans who were deported to a country they've never been to for alleged criminal activity they were never convicted of...who decides how long they are to serve? As there were no trials and no convictions, it seems plausible that some of them are genuinely innocent. Have they essentially been sentenced to life in prison? This seems like just the start. How many people are going to be sent to that black hole without convictions or without any mechanism for appeal? It seems like genuine hell.

Also - white guys with US citizen children are getting swept up in this too. I've also heard of elderly Indian green card holders being pressured by CBP to give up their green cards. Where are we going?
 
Like the way a black hole has exponentially stronger pull the closer matter gets to it, I feel like the more people harmed by the rat--not rando nutcases that want attention but those that have suffered legitimate civil injury--the more inevitable it is that it gets put down. The "spaghettification" effect but for assassination. It's "he who saves his country breaks no law" or whatever that masturbatory Napoleon garbage was, except obviously not the way the bitch intended.
 
I think Poland is safe as most of the people involved couldn't find Poland if they were airdropped into it.
I thought it was safe once the story came out about how the Polish military was supposedly given the ok to shoot people crossing the border without permission & some right wing chuds went "Hell yeah, brutha".
 
So the Venezulans who were deported to a country they've never been to for alleged criminal activity they were never convicted of...who decides how long they are to serve? As there were no trials and no convictions, it seems plausible that some of them are genuinely innocent. Have they essentially been sentenced to life in prison? This seems like just the start. How many people are going to be sent to that black hole without convictions or without any mechanism for appeal? It seems like genuine hell.

Also - white guys with US citizen children are getting swept up in this too. I've also heard of elderly Indian green card holders being pressured by CBP to give up their green cards. Where are we going?
There is supposed to be due-process in the US, meaning the Venezuelan "criminals" are tried, convicted and then deported, if they're being deported for commiting a crime in the US. The Executive Branch is bypassing all of that by just labelling them criminals, so with that in mind, once they get to Venezuela, they'll probably be interviewed by the authorities and let go...
 
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There is supposed to be due-process in the US, meaning the Venezuelan "criminals" are tried, convicted and then deported, if they're being deported for commiting a crime in the US. The Executive Branch is bypassing all of that by just labelling them criminals, so with that in mind, once they get to Venezuela, they'll probably be interviewed by the authorities and let go...
They were supposed to be sent back due to a judge blocking the removals, but the geniuses Trump has picked argued that the judge's order has "no lawful basis" and "the plane already left, so it doesn't apply". And El Salvador's President has apparently already happily accepted them & claimed they were all from Tren de Aragua & MS-13 gang. From what I read, people held in Cecot could be there up to a year awaiting their case to be heard.
 
They were supposed to be sent back due to a judge blocking the removals, but the geniuses Trump has picked argued that the judge's order has "no lawful basis" and "the plane already left, so it doesn't apply". And El Salvador's President has apparently already happily accepted them & claimed they were all from Tren de Aragua & MS-13 gang. From what I read, people held in Cecot could be there up to a year awaiting their case to be heard.
Which means the judicial branch is being ignored and the checks and balances are broken.
 
Which means the judicial branch is being ignored and the checks and balances are broken.
Which I think will only reinforce @TexRex 's point. Someone is going to feel like they have no choice to do something actually radical b/c the government isn't keeping itself in check and letting innocents have their rights & lives impacted to appease a cult leader.
 
Which I think will only reinforce @TexRex 's point. Someone is going to feel like they have no choice to do something actually radical b/c the government isn't keeping itself in check and letting innocents have their rights & lives impacted to appease a cult leader.
Most of the “do something” guys are the ones supporting trumpty dumpty and the husk unfortunately. The left is mostly peaceful protest kind of guys still.
 
There is supposed to be due-process in the US, meaning the Venezuelan "criminals" are tried, convicted and then deported, if they're being deported for commiting a crime in the US. The Executive Branch is bypassing all of that by just labelling them criminals, so with that in mind, once they get to Venezuela, they'll probably be interviewed by the authorities and let go...
Yeah the problem is they aren't going to Venezuela, they are going to El Salvador for....who knows how long. Honestly, does anyone know? They'll probably get lost in the system there. Again with no evidence, no trials, no convictions, nothing - there very well could be innocent people being sent to one of the most notorious jails on the planet with zero recourse. This is some serious ****.
 
Most of the “do something” guys are the ones supporting trumpty dumpty and the husk unfortunately.
From an outsiders perspective it looks like those are the ones that Trump's BS will hit first (edit: well, after the ones that are being shipped out illegally), and the hardest. Perhaps the not quite J6 cult level ones might “do something” when they realise their man doesn't give a flying **** about them.
 
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Yeah the problem is they aren't going to Venezuela, they are going to El Salvador for....who knows how long. Honestly, does anyone know? They'll probably get lost in the system there. Again with no evidence, no trials, no convictions, nothing - there very well could be innocent people being sent to one of the most notorious jails on the planet with zero recourse. This is some serious ****.
The majority of Americans- not just MAGA voters - don't care. I think they're perfectly happy that Trump is "doing something" about illegal immigration. You can see that in the polls canvasing public opinion. The average American couldn't care less about the niceties of the legal system - they've bought into the idea that the US is being victimized by violent, illegal aliens. The same thing happened with Guantanamo, where Afghans (fighting foreign invaders), were treated as "terrorists", carted off to a remote location and incarcerated for years with no trials and no legal recourse in violation of basic international human rights standards.
 
The majority of Americans- not just MAGA voters - don't care. I think they're perfectly happy that Trump is "doing something" about illegal immigration. You can see that in the polls canvasing public opinion. The average American couldn't care less about the niceties of the legal system - they've bought into the idea that the US is being victimized by violent, illegal aliens. The same thing happened with Guantanamo, where Afghans (fighting foreign invaders), were treated as "terrorists", carted off to a remote location and incarcerated for years with no trials and no legal recourse in violation of basic international human rights standards.
Americans have long held a misguided notion that human rights apply only to American citizens. It's one of the most insane things going. If there is a human right to due process, it doesn't stop at your border.

Edit: I think the thing that triggers this notion is the desire to be able to blow people up far away. Declaring that non-citizens have no rights is not the solution to that, of course, and has been handled by many countries in a much cleaner way than the xenophobic tribal way we do it.
 
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The majority of Americans- not just MAGA voters - don't care. I think they're perfectly happy that Trump is "doing something" about illegal immigration. You can see that in the polls canvasing public opinion. The average American couldn't care less about the niceties of the legal system - they've bought into the idea that the US is being victimized by violent, illegal aliens. The same thing happened with Guantanamo, where Afghans (fighting foreign invaders), were treated as "terrorists", carted off to a remote location and incarcerated for years with no trials and no legal recourse in violation of basic international human rights standards.

Americans have long held a misguided notion that human rights apply only to American citizens. It's one of the most insane things going. If there is a human right to due process, it doesn't stop at your border.

Edit: I think the thing that triggers this notion is the desire to be able to blow people up far away. Declaring that non-citizens have no rights is not the solution to that, of course, and has been handled by many countries in a much cleaner way than the xenophobic tribal way we do it.
Some pilot buddies of mine posted the video of those gang members getting off the plane and they just said "seeyuh". I went searching for info because I didn't know about this, and immediately I found out that those flights might have been in violation of a court order but nobody knows yet. Apparently the request to turn the planes around was a verbal court order but was ignored entirely.

America across the board has a cultural disrespect for law and it doesn't really matter where a person stands politically, they all absolutely hate whatever laws are invonvenient to them. Many of them have reasons, sure. Like the whole ACAB thing. Cops are terrible until somebody breaks the law and you need somebody to come help you, right? So ACAB never made much sense to me but it's an example of otherwise pleasant and empathetic people who just pick and choose which laws to ignore based on their mood that day.

Trump has taken that cultural inconsistency and given it an office and a title.
 
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