I have the Japanese version of GT5P, and of course it looks absolutely the best ever, but one thing I noticed is that the paint on the cars shows shadows and reflects trees, sky etc. but it would be really good if you also saw the reflection of YOUR car in the boot of the car you're following, looming up, getting bigger, and then reflecting in the side as you pass - a lights on/off/pass button would be great too.
An important visual thing Polyphony have missed
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Bloody hell some people are never happy are they
Lain
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From a technical standpoint, it'd be too difficult to implement it to justify the work.
Hate to break it to you, but under the hood of GT5 (or any game for that matter), the reflections are a cheap trick. It's not actually calculating real reflections. It's just applying certain textures based upon your location in the track and the angle the car is being viewed at. And to make cars reflect properly on one another... that's not an easy or cheap trick. That'd require ray tracing (real calculation of reflections), which is ridiculously processing intensive.
Hate to break it to you, but under the hood of GT5 (or any game for that matter), the reflections are a cheap trick. It's not actually calculating real reflections. It's just applying certain textures based upon your location in the track and the angle the car is being viewed at. And to make cars reflect properly on one another... that's not an easy or cheap trick. That'd require ray tracing (real calculation of reflections), which is ridiculously processing intensive.
Actually im pretty sure one of the main technological features of GT5 Prologue is that does in fact use real time ray tracing to produce its reflections and, to my knowledge would be the only game to do so.
It might sound unrealistic for a game that runs at such high resolution at 60fps but im sure i read somewhere that PD had managed to do it using the cell processor or somethin.(think it was in an edition of the official playstation mag i bought a while ago).
if you look at some of the trailers in slow-mo, there are times when the car passes under a bridge or beside a lampost or sumthin and you can see the reflections being rendered pretty neatly on the car's surface. I dont know if his is sufficient proof of its functionality but im willing to believe it is when i look at some of those screnshots.
It might sound unrealistic for a game that runs at such high resolution at 60fps but im sure i read somewhere that PD had managed to do it using the cell processor or somethin.(think it was in an edition of the official playstation mag i bought a while ago).
if you look at some of the trailers in slow-mo, there are times when the car passes under a bridge or beside a lampost or sumthin and you can see the reflections being rendered pretty neatly on the car's surface. I dont know if his is sufficient proof of its functionality but im willing to believe it is when i look at some of those screnshots.
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I really don't think it's that important ... there's probably a hell of a lot of other things PD could better invest their time an effort into adding ...
I hear the US and Euro Versions will be a lot brighter since, on what I hear, that in Japan they use darker setting, or brighter. So we going to get copies that will be able to see on the inside of the car
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I highly doubt it. There's no reason to waste power on raytracing the environment if you're not going to raytrace the rest of the scene with it. They can just use the same reflection-map method they've been using since GT3. I think you're underestimating just how intensive full-on raytracing is. They can get the exact same results with a reflection map, using maybe 1% of the power required for raytracing. It just makes sense.
Lain
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The only ray-tracing I've seen demonstrated on the PS3 was on a car model about as complex as something you'd see in GT5... but, to do said ray-tracing, it required 3 PS3s working together. On one car. And the environment around the car was uber-simple compared to GT's environments. So I highly doubt that GT5 utilizes ray-tracing. Maybe if Polyphony super-optimizes their engine, we might see some limited ray-tracing in GT6. Maybe.
Proof GT5 doesn't use ray-tracing: If it did, you would see cars reflecting off one another.
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don't get my comment wrong I never meant to suggest GT5 was using raytracing , just stating cell could do it without using a GPU.
I don't think the cars not reflecting is an issue, considering how many parts of the car are reflecting the scenery, I noticed in a vid of the japanese version that even the metallic honda badge on the steering wheel was reflecting the streets of London.
, just stating cell could do it without using a GPU.I don't think the cars not reflecting is an issue, considering how many parts of the car are reflecting the scenery, I noticed in a vid of the japanese version that even the metallic honda badge on the steering wheel was reflecting the streets of London.
True but not on every car, in some you can see your nose if you stay on red light behind them.. but others you can't because of the way they are built and way they are shaped. Just like a Mirror, if it straight at you, you can see yourself, but as soon as you tilt it, you can see the sky or other things.
Tell the truth, I don't care if GT uses it on actual racing or not, It only makes more work for the CELL and will drop in frame rate. Just like a PC Racing Sim games. Once I put everything On high with lets say 20 cars it becomes a slow down. And I have a two thousand dollar, home build PC with great parts. And I am amazed that GT has better looking graphics then those PC racing sims and manages to have 16 cars with little, very little occasional frame rate drop in 1080p. Over my PC I can play with 20 But once I'm the First guy, I look back, I can see that FPS drop immediately. Great work PD.
About th ray tracing thing, i only read it in some crappy playstation mag and im sure you can understand that said magazine may just have exaggerated that fact a little. You're right, ray tracing probably would be way too processor intensive for the ps3 to render during a racebut ive had a look around and there are a few places that are under the impression that ray tracing is only active when in the garage and in photomode. i think this makes more sense since there is only one car being rendered and it is stationary. About the 3 ps3s only being able to render 1 car model with raytracing, i think in the video the guy says somewhere that the only reason they needed three ps3s was because in linux you are restricted to the use of 2 Cell SPUs and the demo they had needed the power of 6 or so SPUs meaning in theory you could at least do that with one ps3 running maximum cell SPUs. At least were certain now that gt5 does not use ray tracing which makes a more sense to me now.
On the topic i really dont think that these 'car to car' reflections are a big deal but it definitely would be a nice touch if it was done to add to the games already high level of detail. I agree though that PD could definitely find a few easier and better ways to improve the game.
On the topic i really dont think that these 'car to car' reflections are a big deal but it definitely would be a nice touch if it was done to add to the games already high level of detail. I agree though that PD could definitely find a few easier and better ways to improve the game.
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it's amazing isn't it.
on the japanese demo I like to zoom in on the cars and freeze frame, the extra things you see are just outrageous. especially if you catch an advertising board in the wing mirror.
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- Tezuka18
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I said photomode, not phototravel.
As in when you save a replay for taking pics afterwards, it'd be excellent to have that feature in there. Just a slight render and voilà! Instant perfect reflections.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8
it takes 3 PS3's to preform Ray-tracing on a still 3D image.this is very impressive but its too impractical for a console game.
it takes 3 PS3's to preform Ray-tracing on a still 3D image.this is very impressive but its too impractical for a console game.
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but they only had 2 spe available for each ps3, and if it was in photo mode it wouldn't take as much power as live gameplay.
I used to raytrace single frame scenes in maya all the time, and it didn't hit my Amd 64 ( 3 years ago ) much, I could still be modelling another scene or playing a game, and I was running it in movie quality mode.
Robin
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I'll be happy if they would finally give us working reverse lights..no more fancy graphics, just simple, working things that you expect from a real car.
Yeah, I'm not too bothered whether the reflections are real or not... I just want things like damage first! I wonder if you damage your car will the refections follow the bends and dents in the metal? Thats another thing you would expect from a real car..
Robin
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I swear to god if I started this thread it will be locked in no time.
Lain
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A single PS3 can still do ray-tracing, only 3 times slower than 3 PS3s (clearly). So while ray-tracing is impractical for gameplay where it has to spit out 30 renders a second, ray-tracing is quite possible for Photo Mode where it's only rendering one frame. And it can take it's sweet time too, like it does in GT4. After you take your picture in GT4's Photo Mode, does the photo pop up immediately? No, it spends about a second or two rendering the image using techniques that make the image look better, and that they couldn't use in real-time and maintain a reasonable framerate.
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