Anti-Video Game Senator Arrested!

[Grayfox]

So let me get this straight. Australia does not have censorship of video games, but there are video games that Australia won't allow to be sold.

What would happen if one were to buy a prohibited (but not censored ) game from an overseas outlet and the authorities knew about it? I have difficulty believing the answer would be "nothing".

If the game had child prono scenes they would stop it but otherwise not much.

Since you are an adult you can buy the game you want.

 

[Famine]

Australia now has an R-18 classification but some games are refused classification, which means they can't be sold BUT it is legal to possess them unless they contain illegal content (ie child porn).

A government-enforced ratings system leading to censorship.

Don't tell me that in the US child porn is not made illegal/censored.

I wouldn't know, I'm not American. However, I'd suggest that since it has been determined that child porn requires the sexual abuse of children who cannot consent to it, this wouldn't be so much a case of censorship as a result of a ratings system, but due to criminal acts.

A game will be refused classification if it has things like; detailed instructions or glorification of crime, disgusting sexual scenes/gameplay (eeerm bestiality, incest), sexual violence, extremely high cruelty etc.

Or if it portrays drug use with real drugs (Fallout 3). Or if you can, in a game built around gross cartoon violence, kill someone by putting a special gun up their bottom (Saints Row IV) or just put something up their bottom at all (South Park). Or perform an abortion (South Park).

That'll be a government-enforced ratings system leading to censorship.

But who wants to play that rubbish besides the creeps who don't get their stuff at the shops anyway.

The uncensored version of Fallout 3 would have been identical to the censored version, only with the word "Morphine" instead of the Australia-friendly "Med-X". What kind of creep would get off on that, eh? Not to mention those creeps who get their kicks out of badly-animated cartoon characters putting things up someone else's bottom like the sick perverts they are.

*resumes ripping people's spines out in Mortal Kombat like a well-adjusted person*


Legally-enforced ratings systems lead to media censorship. We all agree, so why is there a need to keep going over the point?

 

[Agent_47]

Another Democrat going to jail...

 

[LeMansAid]

I wouldn't know, I'm not American. However, I'd suggest that since it has been determined that child porn requires the sexual abuse of children who cannot consent to it, this wouldn't be so much a case of censorship as a result of a ratings system, but due to criminal acts.

I know. Poor little polygonal things.

It's confusing, since it's as if you don't realise the it's video game child porn in question, when the conversation appears to be very much about video games.

Is it ok to depict any/every criminal act in a video game? Or none? Or certain ones?

 

[Tornado]

I know. Poor little polygonal things.

Except, um...

child porn requires the sexual abuse of children who cannot consent to it

Your deliberately out of context hypothetical... um... wouldn't be child porn. Since it doesn't meet that basic criteria that you even helpfully quoted unless the developers of a game were actually showing child pornography. And while a country with a government-enforced ratings system would certainly ban any such game, it wouldn't actually be illegal in a country that doesn't have such a ratings system but does have child pornography laws since it isn't actually child pornography. That's the same reason that they don't arrest people for having particularly distasteful manga.




Which just makes me curious why you bothered to bring it up in the first place. Can't be an attempt to be clever, because I would hope if you thought it was you would have thought it through a bit more before jumping on it.

 

[Famine]

I know. Poor little polygonal things.

It's confusing, since it's as if you don't realise the it's video game child porn in question, when the conversation appears to be very much about video games.

The question was about child porn, not video game child porn. I can answer about video game child porn much more easily - it isn't necessarily censored in the USA, no. South Park: The Stick of Truth was released uncensored in the USA, including scenes of putting things up children's bottoms. In other countries - particularly Australia - these scenes were removed and replaced with amusing test cards explaining what the scene was and why it was removed.

Is it ok to depict any/every criminal act in a video game?

Yes.

Or none?

Yes.

Or certain ones?

Yes.

 

[R.S]

So let me get this straight. Australia does not have censorship of video games, but there are video games that Australia won't allow to be sold.

What would happen if one were to buy a prohibited (but not censored ) game from an overseas outlet and the authorities knew about it? I have difficulty believing the answer would be "nothing".

If you want to be a retailer you should abide by the regulations (like not selling alcohol/smokes to children), but an unclassified video game is not necessarily illegal content. People have been buying the games overseas for years.

 

[LeMansAid]

Which just makes me curious why you bothered to bring it up in the first place. Can't be an attempt to be clever, because I would hope if you thought it was you would have thought it through a bit more before jumping on it.

Don't be so quick there. I may be stupider than than you give me discredit for.

Though on reflection, I might have got it wrong, but I'm not that surprised...

Australia now has an R-18 classification but some games are refused classification, which means they can't be sold BUT it is legal to possess them unless they contain illegal content (ie child porn).

Don't tell me that in the US child porn is not made illegal/censored.

I wouldn't know, I'm not American. However, I'd suggest that since it has been determined that child porn requires the sexual abuse of children who cannot consent to it, this wouldn't be so much a case of censorship as a result of a ratings system, but due to criminal acts.

I read it as if all of it was bracketed to be about virtual worlds.

So causing no direct harm by consuming real world child porn is and should be criminal, while causing no direct harm by consuming virtual child porn should not be criminal, or even illegal?

Also, since when is there something that Famine doesn't know? Seems fishy to me.

 

[Grayfox]

"If" a company deiced to finish a level objective you must make a bomb and use it on the "enemy" and you had to collect the parts and they had real names and then put it together and set a timer and used it.
Should that not be censored since the game is depicting how to make an explosive device since they give you real names and teach you how to make it in game?

And there excuse under free speech was "we want the game to be as real as it can be"
Lets not forget you cant say the word bomb on a plane even when taxing on a US freeway and claim i said it cause I have the right to "free speech"

 

[R.S]

I don't think you could openly sell a book about how to create bombs.

 

[Zenith]

You are discussing whether or not censorship is a good thing, that is a far cry from the origin of the discussion between you and Famine.

"If" a company deiced to finish a level objective you must make a bomb and use it on the "enemy" and you had to collect the parts and they had real names and then put it together and set a timer and used it.
Should that not be censored since the game is depicting how to make an explosive device since they give you real names and teach you how to make it in game?

I don't think you could openly sell a book about how to create bombs.

Do you think that it is difficult to find the materials and instructions to make a bomb without a video game telling you how?

Lets not forget you cant say the word bomb on a plane even when taxing on a US freeway and claim i said it cause I have the right to "free speech"

And this has undoubtedly saved hundreds of lives.

 

[R.S]

Do you think that it is difficult to find the materials and instructions to make a bomb without a video game telling you how?

I don't think that mainstream joe should be exposed to information about making a sophisticated bomb.
Anyone can make a petrol bomb, or cracker bomb etc, but what about something more intense from specialised chemicals that could bring a building down, do you think all the idiot teenagers out there should have this information fed to them through mainstream media?

 

[Zenith]

I don't think that mainstream joe should be exposed to information about making a sophisticated bomb. Anyone can make a petrol bomb, or cracker bomb etc, but what about something more intense from specialised chemicals that could bring a building down, do you think all the idiot teenagers out there should have this information fed to them through mainstream media?

sophisticated

bomb

That's not the question I asked. I asked if you think that it would be difficult for me to find information on making a destructive device such as a bomb if I wanted to.

 

[R.S]

That's not the question I asked. I asked if you think that it would be difficult for me to find information on making a destructive device such as a bomb if I wanted to.

We know you can go to the corner of the internet to find this information, I don't think that even needs to be said. I'm saying that it should not be fed to teenagers who wouldn't otherwise seek such information.

Also an intense and fast bomb remotely detonated is much more sophisticated than a bottle of crackers or matchheads lit by a piece of string that teenagers might do. (in case you are laughing at the word sophisticated bomb being used together)

 

[Zenith]

We know you can go to the corner of the internet to find this information, I don't think that even needs to be said. I'm saying that it should not be fed to teenagers who wouldn't otherwise seek such information.

Corner of the web? No. PDF's on the matter are extremely easy to find on the web.

You say that the information should not be easily accessible to teens.
It is.

You say that this information should not be fed to teens.

Do you think that learning how to build a bomb will suddenly make somebody want to go out and blow people up? This is an awful lot like the people who think that holding and shooting guns will make a person murderous.

I notice a lot of Australians think this way. I guess the "Protect you from your own malleable, easily misguided self" attitude of the government has rubbed off on the youths.

Also an intense and fast bomb remotely detonated is much more sophisticated than a bottle of crackers or matchheads lit by a piece of string that teenagers might do. (in case you are laughing at the word sophisticated bomb being used together)

One that you would use to let's say bomb a group of people is a very simple contraption. You are heavily underestimating the effectiveness of basic explosives.

 

[Famine]

So causing no direct harm by consuming real world child porn is and should be criminal, while causing no direct harm by consuming virtual child porn should not be criminal, or even illegal?

It's not possible to create real world child porn without violating rights. Consumption of it is a far lesser offence but, even if not paid for and anonymised, creates a demand for it - leading to further rights violations.

Whose rights are violated when Cartman has an anal probe shoved up his hoop?

"If" a company deiced to finish a level objective you must make a bomb and use it on the "enemy" and you had to collect the parts and they had real names and then put it together and set a timer and used it.
Should that not be censored since the game is depicting how to make an explosive device since they give you real names and teach you how to make it in game?

No.

And there excuse under free speech was "we want the game to be as real as it can be"
Lets not forget you cant say the word bomb on a plane even when taxing on a US freeway and claim i said it cause I have the right to "free speech"

Planes are private property. Also, what is a plane doing on a freeway?

Also, what on Earth does any of this have to do with either the fact that we all agree on that government-enforced media ratings system lead to censorship of media? We agree on it, despite your original objection. There is no question about it, so why are we even still discussing censorship when the original point was that enforced media ratings lead to media censorship?

And what does it have to do with the story in this thread?

 

[R.S]

Corner of the web? No. PDF's on the matter are extremely easy to find on the web.

You say that the information should not be easily accessible to teens.
It is.

You say that this information should not be fed to teens.

Do you think that learning how to build a bomb will suddenly make somebody want to go out and blow people up? This is an awful lot like the people who think that holding and shooting guns will make a person murderous.

I notice a lot of Australians think this way. I guess the "Protect you from your own malleable, easily misguided self" attitude of the government has rubbed off on the youths.



One that you would use to let's say bomb a group of people is a very simple contraption. You are heavily underestimating the effectiveness of basic explosives.

Most teens/boys have some interest to build a bomb and blow it up in the field or mailbox next door, probably they will just make it out of a pile of party supplies (without the nails and bb's!!) which might blow their hand off. Most of the kids will not go to the internet to learn how to do this, they don't go looking for the information, they just do it from what they have been taught or what they do while you know, experimenting.

I am glad that they don't learn how to build something out of the more potent chemicals or contraptions around their house or local shop from playing GTA5, which might end up killing anyone within a 20meter radius and blowing the windows out of the entire neighbourhood.

You can have fun making detailed bombs or contraptions in games without it needing to have any relavance in the real world.

I did not say anything about kids playing a video game and then making a bomb to kill people, they would however make a bomb to have some fun and potentially use it without taking proper precautions.

And what does it have to do with the story in this thread?

Why don't you split the thread to video game censorship?

 

[Famine]

Another thread on video game censorship? With Australia's gallop towards electronic censorship already having an eight page thread of its own it seems kinda redundant...

Nevertheless the point was that, despite the initial disagreement, it's now agreed by all that enforced ratings lead to censorship - and that this non-argument doesn't really fit with a thread about an anti-gun campaigner and lawmaker dealing in weapons.

 

[R.S]

Another thread on video game censorship? With Australia's gallop towards electronic censorship already having an eight page thread of its own it seems kinda redundant...

Nevertheless the point was that, despite the initial disagreement, it's now agreed by all that enforced ratings lead to censorship - and that this non-argument doesn't really fit with a thread about an anti-gun campaigner and lawmaker dealing in weapons.

Oh idk, maybe merge the split with one of the other ones?
I'm not talking about Australia INTERNET censorship, but this is VIDEO GAME censorship we talking about.

 

[Ibonibo]

Rating games for ages is okay with me. Censoring the games is stupid.

I take the second country that censors, Germany, where swastika is only allowed in art (movies, documentaries,...). But in Video Games they get removed. Ohh noes, somebody think of the childeren, m'okay. This is also because none of the companies fight for their right. In front of the right judge, South park would not have been delayed in Germany because they missed one, a single one swastika. They censor in Germany games and movies that are rated R (so only available for adults) in order to protect younsters from the "filth", yet those medias sold are still censored, because the adult may be stupid too....Biggest idiocy

On the Southpark exemple, I find it funny, normally the US censors sexual themed stuffed, and Europe gory stuff. Seems this time, we got the brown card. Also this game shows how stupid the rating system and their censorship is. They game is not censored on PC, only on consoles. WT*!!

The problem I see in a lot of countries, we have so many laws, but they are rarely executed to the fullest, so as the actual law isn't applicated everywhere, we need stricter laws,... those aren't enforce either,...and so on. This leads us to censorship (for the sake of childeren, yeah right), cutting fundemental rights, because terrorists are everywhere,....

As exemple alcohol laws for youngsters, they get stricter and stricter, still the problem of younsters drinking isn't solved... simply because we don't enforce the simpliest laws (like not selling alcohol to younsters) and thus needing stricter ones (where in Germany gas station can't sell alcohol now after a certain time (10pm))

On the politican, I hope he gets the full side of the law. And this only shows the hypocrisy of our political leaders. and he is surely not the only one having his fingers playing in the dirt.

 

[LeMansAid]

It's not possible to create real world child porn without violating rights. Consumption of it is a far lesser offence but, even if not paid for and anonymised, creates a demand for it - leading to further rights violations.

Whose rights are violated when Cartman has an anal probe shoved up his hoop?

You could try comparing like for like though.

- Fifteen year old girl makes sex tape with 16 year old boyfriend and puts it online for free access.
- New game features 16 year old male protagonist wooing a fifteen year old girl. It ends in sex.

Your reckoning is that one creates a demand, while the other doesn't? It's fine to BE the guy, just not to watch the girl and the guy.

 

[Famine]

You could try comparing like for like though.

- Fifteen year old girl makes sex tape with 16 year old boyfriend and puts it online for free access.
- New game features 16 year old male protagonist wooing a fifteen year old girl. It ends in sex.

Your reckoning is that one creates a demand, while the other doesn't?

Nope. I'm reckoning that one requires a rights violation and the other doesn't. And that this still has nothing to do with the point that enforced ratings leads to censorship or an anti-gun rights lawmaker being arrested for arms trafficking.

 

[Zenith]

Unfortunately this thread won't feature too much discussion on Yee because what he did can only be universally regarded as hypocritical and downright disgusting. I guess this could give some ammunition (hue hue) to opposers of gun control.

Sometimes the paranoid crazies actually end up looking reasonable.

 

[BobK]

Nope. I'm reckoning that one requires a rights violation and the other doesn't. And that this still has nothing to do with the point that enforced ratings leads to censorship or an anti-gun rights lawmaker being arrested for arms trafficking.

And it has even less to do with a California State Senator being busted on corruption charges.

 

[Pupik]

Lets not forget you cant say the word bomb on a plane even when taxing on a US freeway and claim i said it cause I have the right to "free speech"

Let's just say that if you're taxiing down a freeway, a bomb is actually not a primary concern!

 

[Kent]

I have a hard time seeing how people can overlook that this guy is trying to make it more difficult to legally own firearms while also being involved in the illegal sale/distribution.

Amazing.

 

[Prenny]

Anti-Videogame activists are hypocrites.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Anti-Videogame activists are hypocrites.

Would you like to support that assertion with some evidence?

 

[Prenny]

Would you like to support that assertion with some evidence?

http://www.destructoid.com/jack-tho...-buy-bioshock-because-he-is-tough-44335.phtml
Jack Thompson is a anti-video-game activist who sued lots of company and wasted money fighting against video-games, but he let his 15-years old son to buy a M-Rated game.

 

[Roo]

http://www.destructoid.com/jack-tho...-buy-bioshock-because-he-is-tough-44335.phtml
Jack Thompson is a anti-video-game activist who sued lots of company and wasted money fighting against video-games, but he let his 15-years old son to buy a M-Rated game.

So how does the actions of one anti-videogame activist make all anti-videogame activists hypocrites?