Any reason to upgrade to PS5 for GT7 (vs PS4 Pro)

[Conza]

Anyone else getting both like myself? Currently sitting on a PS4 Pro and ordered the physical 25th ann version with a digital PS4 version of the game which I’ll start with and eventually get myself a PS5 and move over.

Honestly I'm tempted, but not with the anniversary pack this time, it's 50% ($154 vs $89) and the additional DLC doesn't seem worth it to me. What I'll probably do is get the PS4 version, then if it doesn't run poorly (1080p60 will be good enough for me honestly), I'll hold out on a PS5 until GT8, then I 'may' buy GT7 on PS5 for $20-30 in the bargain bin where it usually ends up post launch. It all depends. I'm just not anticipating the PS5 to A. Come into reasonable stock in the next year or so, let alone drop in price and B. To have 'enough' of a performance advantage, for me, to justify it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Subjective. Is a single video game worth $840 AUD to you? If yes sure, otherwise, if there's no need to upgrade (and there is, no "need") objectively speaking you will be getting the vast majority of the experience on a PS4 and certainly a PS4 Pro. If when it comes out it's a choppy mess on PS4/Pro, or load times take quarter of an hour, anything really bad, sure it's unplayable. But if it's playable then, I don't think they are good enough reasons. A few seconds and ray tracing? No thanks.

This is a dumb argument. No-one buys a console for one game.

 

[CBH]

This is a dumb argument. No-one buys a console for one game.

At this stage I will only buy 1 game for PS5, and there is nothing wrong in that.

 

[Conza]

This is a dumb argument. No-one buys a console for one game.

I agree that it is unwise to purchase an expensive console just to play 1 game, I don't agree that no one does this, have a read of more comments on this forum, I've seen plenty of people claiming they buy a PlayStation almost exclusively to play Gran Turismo - It's less and less stupid of an idea depending on the price of entry. My PS3 I rarely used outside of GT5 or GT6, I did happen to already have it, but my PS4 I bought with the intent of playing GTS, which is why I'm so glad GT7 is coming because that purchase I made will now vest some return for me. It was unwise for me to buy a PS4 Pro for GTS, I accept that, but I did it and that's why I'm not doing it again for this. There is nothing else on the PS5 that I really want to play, so the argument for upgrading for GT7, in my opinion, doesn't make sense. If there are half a dozen other games, then you're not upgrading from PS4 to PS5 for GT7, you're upgrading for a bunch of games and power to you. That's not everyone.

 

[Imari]

It's PD, they are a tiny studio that releases games infrequently and have smaller budgets relying on cult followers...

Lol, wut? They have hundreds of staff. GT5 had a budget of like $80 million. Tell us more about this poor struggling little indy studio...

 

[Conza]

Lol, wut? They have hundreds of staff. GT5 had a budget of like $80 million. Tell us more about this poor struggling little indy studio...

No problem. It's a matter of relativity.

In 2018 Polyphony Digital stated they employ approximately 170 people with only $85,000USD in capital (10m Yen). They are the 1 and only studio working on the Gran Turismo series

Their primary "rival" or competitor, the Forza series has 3 different developer studios, at a similar point in time (2017), Playground games had 115 people, looking to scale up to 200. Sumo Digital has 750 employees as of 2020 and Turn 10 had 100 people in 2014, their Linkedin state they are 'between' 201 and 500 employees.

And they're backed by Microsoft

So PD's 170, let's give them 200 employees by now versus 200+200, Sumo wouldn't have their entire organisation working on Forza, let's say 250 to be conservative, Microsoft have both than 3 times the number of employees and 3 times the studios dedicated to their racing franchise, where as Sony only has PD.

Let's compare the studios just for Forza Motorsport "8" (it's rebooting it's not called "8" as far as we know) to Gran Turismo 7

Turn 10 has an estimated revenue of $28.5M per annum - https://growjo.com/company/Turn_10_Studios

Where as Polyphony Digital, I can't find their revenue, the best I could find was that Sony was planning to inject 12 studios with $184 million dollars in 2021 - https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7902...in-first-party-playstation-studios/index.html

So even if this were perfectly equal, PD being among the 12* would be getting 15.3m a year, that's nearly half.

I thought this was mostly just accepted that PD are the underdogs, they have a certain quirkiness to their games that we just all live with because they have the closest driving feel? I have been away for a long time, but that was the sentiment that I recall.

 

[Magog]

No problem. It's a matter of relativity.

In 2018 Polyphony Digital stated they employ approximately 170 people with only $85,000USD in capital (10m Yen). They are the 1 and only studio working on the Gran Turismo series

Their primary "rival" or competitor, the Forza series has 3 different developer studios, at a similar point in time (2017), Playground games had 115 people, looking to scale up to 200. Sumo Digital has 750 employees as of 2020 and Turn 10 had 100 people in 2014, their Linkedin state they are 'between' 201 and 500 employees.

And they're backed by Microsoft

So PD's 170, let's give them 200 employees by now versus 200+200, Sumo wouldn't have their entire organisation working on Forza, let's say 250 to be conservative, Microsoft have both than 3 times the number of employees and 3 times the studios dedicated to their racing franchise, where as Sony only has PD.

Let's compare the studios just for Forza Motorsport "8" (it's rebooting it's not called "8" as far as we know) to Gran Turismo 7

Turn 10 has an estimated revenue of $28.5M per annum - https://growjo.com/company/Turn_10_Studios

Where as Polyphony Digital, I can't find their revenue, the best I could find was that Sony was planning to inject 12 studios with $184 million dollars in 2021 - https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7902...in-first-party-playstation-studios/index.html

So even if this were perfectly equal, PD being among the 12* would be getting 15.3m a year, that's nearly half.

I thought this was mostly just accepted that PD are the underdogs, they have a certain quirkiness to their games that we just all live with because they have the closest driving feel? I have been away for a long time, but that was the sentiment that I recall.

There is no such thing as per developer revenue or capital on hand when you're talking about a company within a company. If they listed that on their website they must have had a reason but it is in no way an accurate number. Sony decides the budget and pays the staff. You can bet they are spending a lot more than $15 million per year. They also have access to multiple Sony support studios and I believe are outsourcing some of their modeling.

 

[Conza]

There is no such thing as per developer revenue or capital on hand when you're talking about a company within a company. If they listed that on their website they must have had a reason but it is in no way an accurate number. Sony decides the budget and pays the staff. You can bet they are spending a lot more than $15 million per year. They also have access to multiple Sony support studios and I believe are outsourcing some of their modeling.

Yep that seems all well and good. My point is, PD are the underdog, always have been. I would really like to see what they could do with some outside input at a strategic level, and twice as many staff. Imagine a 1500 car game with hours of single player content, online content kept up to date for years that everyone enjoys, the point is they are limited by their current group of people, both numbers wise and creatively.

 

[Samus]

Yep that seems all well and good. My point is, PD are the underdog, always have been. I would really like to see what they could do with some outside input at a strategic level, and twice as many staff. Imagine a 1500 car game with hours of single player content, online content kept up to date for years that everyone enjoys, the point is they are limited by their current group of people, both numbers wise and creatively.

That is purely by choice, though. Sony haven't hindered or limited them, it's PD who choose to stay small, it's PD who until very recently resisted outsourcing. So whilst it might be true that they're the underdog, it's not in the same way that a tiny independent studio like Kunos is. I'm sure Kunos would love to have millions of dollars budget and 500 staff, but they have no backing to allow that. PD do, they choose to stay small.

 

[05XR8]

Exactly. Wasn’t there a quick discussion about the same staff at PD? Yes, it’s not uncommon for people to remain at a job long term. However, if the company are not willing to change with the times, that could hinder progress. Big company or small.
Why are the smaller companies choosing to give the players all the tools they need to play racing games. Yet, PD still hood back features?

 

[Magog]

Yep that seems all well and good. My point is, PD are the underdog, always have been. I would really like to see what they could do with some outside input at a strategic level, and twice as many staff. Imagine a 1500 car game with hours of single player content, online content kept up to date for years that everyone enjoys, the point is they are limited by their current group of people, both numbers wise and creatively.

I don't think underdog fits at all. They make the best racing game as far as I and millions of others are concerned. They focus on things other developers don't. GT is a CARPG basically and they nail that aspect. Every Forza I've tried to play has bored me to tears with how sterile they are and the indie/smaller sim driving games are full of jank and missing details. GT is all about polish and experience. They have had 1000+ cars before and are the best selling racing series of all time by a wide margin which started back in the 20th century and they hold that title to today.

 

[Conza]

I don't think underdog fits at all. They make the best racing game as far as I and millions of others are concerned. They focus on things other developers don't. GT is a CARPG basically and they nail that aspect. Every Forza I've tried to play has bored me to years with how sterile they are and the indie/smaller sim driving games are full of jank and missing details. GT is all about polish and experience. They have had 1000+ cars before and are the best selling racing series of all time by a wide margin which started back in the 20th century and they hold that title to today.

I'm with you, GT is my favourite driving series, but I just think in terms of resources they are hindered. Look, I really hope GT7 comes along and blows everyone away, is the greatest game in the series, has the best content and only a few people have minor issues with it, but I'm just not predicting that.

 

[Imari]

Yep that seems all well and good. My point is, PD are the underdog, always have been. I would really like to see what they could do with some outside input at a strategic level, and twice as many staff. Imagine a 1500 car game with hours of single player content, online content kept up to date for years that everyone enjoys, the point is they are limited by their current group of people, both numbers wise and creatively.

Nah. They're a Sony first party studio with a famous game franchise that sells 10 million+ copies per release. If you're Sony, you give these guys a blank check with a single proviso - whatever you do needs to make a profit.

If Polyphony are small, it's because it's their choice. If they're limited, it's because they've chosen to limit themselves. If any studio is in a position to dictate the terms of their engagement with Sony, it's Polyphony.

Kaz is still Senior Vice President at SIE as far as I can tell, see Profile of Interviewee at the bottom of this interview from April. He's far from powerless when it comes to how Polyphony, his game studio, is treated by Sony Interactive Entertainment, a company that he's a senior executive for. He's had an inside ear since the start when he formed a bromance with Shuhei Yoshida.

Whatever Polyphony are, they're not underdogs.

...are the best selling racing series of all time by a wide margin...

All the rest is just how you feel about it, but this is factually incorrect.

The six best selling racing games of all time (list) | GRR

From Gran Turismo to Forza via some surprises... Based on what you know about racing games, what do you think is the best-selling title and franchise? Where do you think the big-hitters sit in the grand scheme of things? To beat a dead horse that’s died, been cremated and has been reincarnated...

www.goodwood.com

Mario Kart and Need for Speed both significantly outsell Gran Turismo. It's the third best selling racing series of all time, and I suspect Forza Horizon is probably in fourth by this point but a long way behind behind.

 

[racedevil70]

I don't understand why all gt-series games never can be played on newer consols.I liked gt 1-2 on ps1 gt3-4 on ps2 and gt5-6 on my current ps3.The 5-6 online season to get a car if i was lucky/and or the money+bonusboost in the singleplayer/carrer mode..What i miss is playabillity for old(er) games on newer consols.Know i misstype/spell all the time.How i miss the old Diablo despite it's not racing....

 

[CoopR_26]

I don't understand why all gt-series games never can be played on newer consols.I liked gt 1-2 on ps1 gt3-4 on ps2 and gt5-6 on my current ps3.The 5-6 online season to get a car if i was lucky/and or the money+bonusboost in the singleplayer/carrer mode..What i miss is playabillity for old(er) games on newer consols.Know i misstype/spell all the time.How i miss the old Diablo despite it's not racing....

Trying to decypher this post... Are you talking about backwards compatibility with console? If so, then yeah, you're right, newer consoles should be able to play older games imo. The PS5 can play PS4 games and that's great, but it would be even cooler if it could play PS3 games at least.

I still have my PS3 but its just annoying to set it up, since my headset isn't compatible. It would be way better if i could just insert the disc in my ps5 and play it. I don't know how difficult it is to do this in terms of hardware and/or software thats needed, but it would be awesome to have. Would give a lot of older games a new life!

 

[Magog]

Nah. They're a Sony first party studio with a famous game franchise that sells 10 million+ copies per release. If you're Sony, you give these guys a blank check with a single proviso - whatever you do needs to make a profit.

If Polyphony are small, it's because it's their choice. If they're limited, it's because they've chosen to limit themselves. If any studio is in a position to dictate the terms of their engagement with Sony, it's Polyphony.

Kaz is still Senior Vice President at SIE as far as I can tell, see Profile of Interviewee at the bottom of this interview from April. He's far from powerless when it comes to how Polyphony, his game studio, is treated by Sony Interactive Entertainment, a company that he's a senior executive for. He's had an inside ear since the start when he formed a bromance with Shuhei Yoshida.

Whatever Polyphony are, they're not underdogs.

All the rest is just how you feel about it, but this is factually incorrect.

The six best selling racing games of all time (list) | GRR

From Gran Turismo to Forza via some surprises... Based on what you know about racing games, what do you think is the best-selling title and franchise? Where do you think the big-hitters sit in the grand scheme of things? To beat a dead horse that’s died, been cremated and has been reincarnated...

www.goodwood.com

Mario Kart and Need for Speed both significantly outsell Gran Turismo. It's the third best selling racing series of all time, and I suspect Forza Horizon is probably in fourth by this point but a long way behind behind.

Mario Kart is not really racing its Kart combat and need for speed is more about escaping the cops. Not true racing games by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Samus]

Mario Kart is not really racing its Kart combat and need for speed is more about escaping the cops. Not true racing games by any stretch of the imagination.

You race to win. They're racing games. They're certainly not simulation racing games, no, but you didn't specify that sub-genre.

 

[Magog]

You race to win. They're racing games. They're certainly not simulation racing games, no, but you didn't specify that sub-genre.

If you want to be pedantic yes racing Sims is what I meant.

I don't understand why all gt-series games never can be played on newer consols.I liked gt 1-2 on ps1 gt3-4 on ps2 and gt5-6 on my current ps3.The 5-6 online season to get a car if i was lucky/and or the money+bonusboost in the singleplayer/carrer mode..What i miss is playabillity for old(er) games on newer consols.Know i misstype/spell all the time.How i miss the old Diablo despite it's not racing....

Licensing. To sell those games again on current consoles they would need to relicense the cars, tracks, logos, and music. Won't happen in a million years. With a launch PS3 and a PS5 you can play all GT console games ever made though. Not bad really.

 

[racedevil70]

That's what mean.To play old games on newer console

 

[fastone371]

This is a dumb argument. No-one buys a console for one game.

I have and it's not the first time.

 

[ScottPuss20]

No problem. It's a matter of relativity.

In 2018 Polyphony Digital stated they employ approximately 170 people with only $85,000USD in capital (10m Yen). They are the 1 and only studio working on the Gran Turismo series

Their primary "rival" or competitor, the Forza series has 3 different developer studios, at a similar point in time (2017), Playground games had 115 people, looking to scale up to 200. Sumo Digital has 750 employees as of 2020 and Turn 10 had 100 people in 2014, their Linkedin state they are 'between' 201 and 500 employees.

And they're backed by Microsoft

So PD's 170, let's give them 200 employees by now versus 200+200, Sumo wouldn't have their entire organisation working on Forza, let's say 250 to be conservative, Microsoft have both than 3 times the number of employees and 3 times the studios dedicated to their racing franchise, where as Sony only has PD.

Let's compare the studios just for Forza Motorsport "8" (it's rebooting it's not called "8" as far as we know) to Gran Turismo 7

Turn 10 has an estimated revenue of $28.5M per annum - https://growjo.com/company/Turn_10_Studios

Where as Polyphony Digital, I can't find their revenue, the best I could find was that Sony was planning to inject 12 studios with $184 million dollars in 2021 - https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7902...in-first-party-playstation-studios/index.html

So even if this were perfectly equal, PD being among the 12* would be getting 15.3m a year, that's nearly half.

I thought this was mostly just accepted that PD are the underdogs, they have a certain quirkiness to their games that we just all live with because they have the closest driving feel? I have been away for a long time, but that was the sentiment that I recall.

You want to talk about "underdogs"? Kunos developed Assetto Corsa with 29 employees.

 

[Imari]

Mario Kart is not really racing its Kart combat and need for speed is more about escaping the cops. Not true racing games by any stretch of the imagination.

Lol, I could have seen that one coming a mile away.

A racing game is a racing game. You know, like a game in which you race. Kart racing games are racing games. Street racing games are racing games. If you wanted to be more specific, then you should have been more specific. What you said was wrong. There's no such thing as a "true" racing game, and so there's no imagination at all required to think of Mario Kart and NfS as racing games.

If you mean "the best selling racing series of all time with mostly realistic cars and a somewhat realistic physics system that roughly approximates real world motorsport events" then just say that. Don't try to pretend that the two best selling racing game franchises of all time are somehow not racing games.

 

[Conza]

You want to talk about "underdogs"? Kunos developed Assetto Corsa with 29 employees.

Right, and.

No problem. It's a matter of relativity.

So Kunos is an underdog compared to PD. Anyway, as others have stated PD/Sony still manage to be the most successful 'realistic' racing game.

 

[ScottPuss20]

So Kunos is an underdog compared to PD. Anyway, as others have stated PD/Sony still manage to be the most successful 'realistic' racing game.

What? Gran Turismo isn't that realistic compared to the hardcore simulators mate. Assetto Corsa is the most successful "realistic" racing game if you ask me, having sold over 10 million copies across all platforms (mostly PC)

 

[Conza]

What? Gran Turismo isn't that realistic compared to the hardcore simulators mate. Assetto Corsa is the most successful "realistic" racing game if you ask me, having sold over 10 million copies across all platforms (mostly PC)

Ok, let's make a 1-10 scale with 4 games on it. Mario Kart, Need for Speed, Gran Turismo and Assetto Corsa. Mario Kart is a 2, Need for Speed is a 4, Gran Turismo is a 9 and Assetto Corsa is a 10. GT/Forza are far more realistic than other games, I wasn't saying "The most realistic and also successful racing game", AC can have that, I was saying "the most successful realistic racing game". Both are realistic, both are successful, but among them GT is more successful, therefore, it is the most successful 'realistic' racing game.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Ok, let's make a 1-10 scale with 4 games on it. Mario Kart, Need for Speed, Gran Turismo and Assetto Corsa. Mario Kart is a 2, Need for Speed is a 4, Gran Turismo is a 9 and Assetto Corsa is a 10. GT/Forza are far more realistic than other games, I wasn't saying "The most realistic and also successful racing game", AC can have that, I was saying "the most successful realistic racing game". Both are realistic, both are successful, but among them GT is more successful, therefore, it is the most successful 'realistic' racing game.

GTS is at most a simcade. It's severely lacking to be a simulator of the cars, tires and suspension/aero.
What it is is maybe the world's best racing simulation. The cars and physics are at most a 5 on your scale but the racing itself is a 10.

I see where you are going though, no one would consider Mario Kart or Sonic Racing serious racing games.
But that wasn't what you said. We have no way of knowing what you mean, we have to respond to what you say. And so they did.

 

[Magog]

Lol, I could have seen that one coming a mile away.

A racing game is a racing game. You know, like a game in which you race. Kart racing games are racing games. Street racing games are racing games. If you wanted to be more specific, then you should have been more specific. What you said was wrong. There's no such thing as a "true" racing game, and so there's no imagination at all required to think of Mario Kart and NfS as racing games.

If you mean "the best selling racing series of all time with mostly realistic cars and a somewhat realistic physics system that roughly approximates real world motorsport events" then just say that. Don't try to pretend that the two best selling racing game franchises of all time are somehow not racing games.

If you could fire turtle shells at your opponents in Gran Turismo I wouldn't consider that a racing game either. You may as well add GTA to your list of "racing" games since like NFS it centers around evading the police in car chases and like Mario Kart you can fire at your opponents vehicles.

 

[Samus]

If you could fire turtle shells at your opponents in Gran Turismo I wouldn't consider that a racing game either. You may as well add GTA to your list of "racing" games since like NFS it centers around evading the police in car chases and like Mario Kart you can fire at your opponents vehicles.

You should, because racing/race is a VERY broad term.

race
NOUN

a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course.

Have you actually played any NFS games? Many don't feature police at all and those that do don't centre around evading them, they center around racing other street racers. The police are just an obstacle, like the turtle shells.



See the start, the finish line and the competitors? It doesn't matter what you use to race (People, pigs, cars, rocket powered bananas) or what the rules of the race are, a race is a race, and those games certainly qualify.

GTA games do feature races but their primary focus is not racing.

 

[Magog]

You should, because racing/race is a VERY broad term.

Have you actually played any NFS games? Many don't feature police at all and those that do don't centre around evading them, they center around racing other street racers. The police are just an obstacle, like the turtle shells.



See the start, the finish line and the competitors? It doesn't matter what you use to race (People, pigs, cars, rocket powered bananas) or what the rules of the race are, a race is a race, and those games certainly qualify.

GTA games do feature races but their primary focus is not racing.

You're not going to change my opinion on this one. If there are "obstacles" like banana peels and cop cars it's not a racing game. Racing games are about out racing your opponent. Those games belong in the same category as Twist Metal. Car combat.

 

[Samus]

You're not going to change my opinion on this one. If there are "obstacles" like banana peels and cop cars it's not a racing game. Racing games are about out racing your opponent. Those games belong in the same category as Twist Metal. Car combat.

So you're saying this doesn't apply to those games then?

a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course.

Is the person in that video I posted not seeing who can be fastest in covering a set course? Because that is literally the dictionary definition of a race in this context. It makes no mention that there can't be any obstacles. 400m hurdles is a race.

They fit the factual definition of a race, irrespective of your opinion.