Anyone finding the online experience inferior to GTS?

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benjoi84
I think we're going to see a more lifelike scenario on GT7's Sport Mode.

That is to say, don't worry about having to spend hours upgrading cars every week, it will be more like you have your stable of pet cars that you've pored over and they are your go-tos your most races.

I can see that you might have to occasionally buy a new more (or less) powerful car, or one with a certain drive train for example every so often but I don't think the game will have you spending your credits week after week to suit the races on offer.
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Certainly hasn’t started that way with fictional million credit cars going at 180mph past tuned up golfs.
 
xNOVA415x
In my experience thus far, online sucks ass big time. I've got many complains and hardly anything I can say I actually like about it.

What I like:
  • Yay online multiplayer is back..
  • I like competition online
  • It looks like GT: Sport did so easy transition
  • Oooh shiny!

What I don't like:
- Polyphony Digital couldn't even match the quality of GT: Sport
  • Can't transfer lobby ownership to another person in the room so if host leaves the lobby is dead and people don't come back.
  • Can't change event settings in-game and instead you have to kick everyone out, make a new room with new settings, and even then you lose people because they don't come back.
  • Lobby limit still 16 (shame)
  • Can't buy parts in a room; have to back out, go all the way back to the world map, then load back into the multiplayer lobby and hope the room is still there.
  • Too many variations between Gr. 1, Gr. 2, Gr. 3, and Gr. 4 cars so there's no way to set a room up to specify only grouped "race cars". In Gran Turismo 6, and even GT: Sport, cars from certain groupings all had equal (or close to it) specs making it easy to set limits and specify certain cars by weight or horsepower (Nascar stock cars for instance). GT: Sport actually handled this better and all Gr. * cars were just race cars and not road cars.
  • Terrible synchronization of racers leading to pinballing cars and overall bad race experience
  • Rain is a complete joke no matter what tires you're on
  • Sport mode races are terribly balanced. You get maybe one or two good players and everyone else finishes 30sec+ behind leader
  • Not all contact in sport mode incurs penalties and some of the penalties are absolute whack. I've noticed that some people have figured out how to push other cars off track without being penalized. I've lost four races so far because of this. I'VE also been penalized because someone brake-checked me and it counted as me "Making Contact" with another vehicle in the race...

How long do you think GT: Sport has before they close down those servers like they did to Gran Turismo 6? This sh** is getting to the point where I think I might just go back to GT: Sport... I'll say one thing, though- this is the last Gran Turismo game I'm ever buying. It's a damn shame but they brought this on themselves. After 24 years I'm finally saying goodbye. Maybe you can work on yourself, PD, and there'll be a chance for "us" in the future. Maybe...
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I whole heartedly agree and so many other neglectful downfalls that are thoroughly disappointing,also on a personal opinion note how daft and/or ignorant do these developers have to be to continue this lack of features that necessitate a satisfying and joyful experience not just in regular racing competition categories but the drifting community and culture is arguably large and yet a huge lack of immersion that could be so easily modeled and added,where are some dedicated competition or replicated drift tracks,possibly more immersive online lobby options for example placement of cones or some kind of a start and finish area for custom section setup and a plethora of other small options easily modeled and easily added to greatly increase the chances of enjoyable experiences,definitely moving forward with a thorough commitment to assetto corsa on pc with a high fidelity and quality rig,this games worth $50 or less in my personal opinion of value catering to all the wrong subjects and culture categories resulting in a acceptionally disappointing era in console based sim history
 
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Benny44
The game doesn't get good scores because it's nostalgic. It gets good scores because the cars look, sound, and drive beautifully. Yes, the AI is rubbish. But the star of any Gran Turismo game are the cars. If people didn't know what they're getting, they either never played a GT game before or had (unfounded) hope the AI would be better.
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I think this is odd reasoning. If a game only does a few things well you don't give it 9/10 and let the rest of the game have a free pass. Online lobbies are a bit broken. There's no racing career or seasons and very few cup events (ironically, there is arguably more single player content in GT Sport). There's a rigged roulette system that puts special parts behind RNG. The Cafe Menu is bugging out for a lot of people preventing them from progressing. The game is still pretty good, but how it got 9/10 from most outlets doesn't make sense to me.
 
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s0cks
I think this is odd reasoning. If a game only does a few things well you don't give it 9/10 and let the rest of the game have a free pass. Online lobbies are a bit broken. There's no racing career or seasons and very few cup events (ironically, there is arguably more single player content in GT Sport). There's a rigged roulette system that puts special parts behind RNG. The Cafe Menu is bugging out for a lot of people preventing them from progressing. The game is still pretty good, but how it got 9/10 from most outlets doesn't make sense to me.
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There is probably about 40 hours in the cafe alone. That's a pretty big singleplayer amount. Maybe the career isn't what YOU expected or wanted, but that doesn't make it bad. I think it's handcrafted very nicely to get you to go through a wide selection of cars over different tracks, while reintroducing all the things Sport cut out. All the cups are there, if a bit all over the place. But there are championships as well.

Yes, the roulette thing is a bit rigged. But that's just a bonus you get. Thankfully it doesn't appear you can purchase these with real money. So the only way to get them is to play. It's not like any part of the game hinges on what you get there.

I think it is a VERY small percentage who have had an issue with a bug in cafe. And I also think it was a reasonable assumption to think this online is going to be the same as Sport's. It's just one mode, and the reviewers no doubt didn't get a chance to fully test it. Plus - 4 days. They'll patch it, I'm sure
 
I believe the goal of this game was to bring back all that Gran Turismo has been throughout the ages. I've played since GT1 first came out, similar to other users here, and this is the first time in a while I have been excited about a GT. Sport was great for online racing, but it got boring for me very fast because the heart of the GT that I knew wasnt there.

Now, they're attempting to bridge the gap while also not making us wait a million years. So, the sport experience is lacking, but everything else is much closer to what GT is supposed to be and what the community knows it for.

The game has been out just a few days and, as others have said, it's only a matter of time before the Sport mode is back to the glory of what it was. All of the key factors and flows are there, so there's no reason to think it won't be smoothed out and set up properly pretty soon.

This is a very big game, there are a lot of small things that need tending to since, as a developer, you don't really get the full breadth of what can-and-will go wrong until it's in the hands of the players. For what it is, the game is extremely well polished and a blast to play.

Now we are in live mode, and a few things are popping up here and there that need to be tended to that weren't 100% apparent with controlled testing environments and game testers. The online community and GT community is far and above the amount of individuals who sat down to test the game.

The fact is, everything is there that you all want. Give it some time to catch up while PD irons out the final bugs and finds the game's flow alongside the community, and then it will be everything that Sport was and better.
 
NevilleNobody
I still don't understand what sport supposedly cut out? There's more offline in sport than 7 right now no?
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No, there is not. Car tuning is more detailed. Customizing cars wasn't available in Sport. License tests and missions. There's already way more in 7 than Sport ever had. Sport was a focused game on online. The single player races always felt shoehorned in, which they essentially were. Sport is what it is. If you like racing online with strangers, it did that remarkably well. But a lot of us don't
 
Ironically this makes me happy, I thought GT Sport would have a swift Guillotine death, but now I can go back to playing with mates a lot longer whilst GT7 plays catch up ;)
 
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Benny44
There is probably about 40 hours in the cafe alone. That's a pretty big singleplayer amount. Maybe the career isn't what YOU expected or wanted, but that doesn't make it bad. I think it's handcrafted very nicely to get you to go through a wide selection of cars over different tracks, while reintroducing all the things Sport cut out. All the cups are there, if a bit all over the place. But there are championships as well.

Yes, the roulette thing is a bit rigged. But that's just a bonus you get. Thankfully it doesn't appear you can purchase these with real money. So the only way to get them is to play. It's not like any part of the game hinges on what you get there.

I think it is a VERY small percentage who have had an issue with a bug in cafe. And I also think it was a reasonable assumption to think this online is going to be the same as Sport's. It's just one mode, and the reviewers no doubt didn't get a chance to fully test it. Plus - 4 days. They'll patch it, I'm sure
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Unless the last 10 menus are very long there is no way its 40hrs. Most of the starter menus were 15min and some were like 5min if that (taking photos or putting a wing on your car). Even the 3 race championships are more like 30min max.

GT Sport has loads of different single player Leagues each with 10 races iirc. It also has scapes, circuit experience, missions, and licenses.

Anyway, I don't want to come across as a hater. Cus I still think the game is good. Its just not 9/10 good. Maybe in a year when it's patched and we're given new content it could be up there for sure. But for now, it seems to me that these massive review scores are mostly for the nostalgia it's invoking in many people, or simply people riding the hype train. 9/10 is close to perfect, which I really don't think it is. But each to their own I suppose.
 
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mattikake
So, I've been doing this for a few hours today and as is the GT7 model, it's as I feared; the public online experience is a poor second best to GTS.

This is because of several reasons specific to the design of GT7;

- A larger majority of players are now of course playing through the story mode collecting cars and this has decimated the number of lobbies. They are running at about half GTS capacity from what I can see.

- if you want a full set of tyres to use in a public lobby you need to buy them first, meaning to start with at least, you have to do single player stuff to win money to buy all the tyres.. for each car.

- The PP system appears to override car class, meaning you find many lobbies that have a non-class car beasting round several seconds faster than anyone else. E.g. I just came out of a GR4 lobby where someone had that Alfa 155 touring car, which is legal and lapping 5s faster than I could go.

- or there is a race class but tuning is now an option, so there are more lobbies with tuning on and souped up cars, reducing the number of proper/fair/balanced race lobbies.

- mistakes are now much more common and this appears to have dramatically increased rage quitting. E.g. I won one 5 lap race that started with 14 players and because I was not making mistakes, I was the only one left in the race by lap 3!

- PP ranged lobbies take aaaages messing in car setup to actually get a car legal and competitive, by removing mods... by which time the host has started the race.

- and PP ranged lobbies are worse if you mess around and find you need to buy mods... which means leaving the lobby.

I could go on all night. I knew this would be the case because of the way GT7 has more single player elements but nevertheless the online experience has diminished, depopulated, become laborious and frustrating. I fancied a random online race and I would've been far more successful starting GTS. The future of gaming is online not offline.

If a lobby is set to "gr4" then it should just be current/modern gt4 cars and tyres at least should be free and maybe mods too.
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That thing where the host starts a race but you're still tuning, so you're left out, yeah that thing? that thing needs to go.

And I don't know why it's never been done before but there needs to be a way to separate oldschool Gr4 from the Current Gr4 lineup.

I'll take GT Sport for example.
In GT Sport there's Gr1 but in that you also have GrC cars from the 80s
What they should ahev done is make all the classes but also have subcategories. So in Gr1 they'd also have the category GrC, and you can deny GrC cars from entering by unticking a check box. This should be implemented into GT7 so you can turn off "historic" Gr4 cars from being allowed in a Gr4 race, or leave it on, but it should have it's own category. Period.


As for comments on the PP system...My guess is:

  • AWD drivetrains and good aero/downforce especially on the rear, should all take up more PP points. So GT7 will need quite a few more updates before we get a balanced PP system
  • Also in that Cars with lower weight should increase PP more
    • When cars go under 1100kg is where they become certified rockets
 
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mattikake
It's a current issue. You have to set up a new lobby. Yes this means everyone you had collected in your lobby now gets booted out.

I'm surprised how little thought appears to have gone into the online experience. At a guess I'd say it's because the Devs don't actually know what the online experience was like on GTS.
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I'd guess instead that they had to significantly alter the game engine or upgrade it in order to make GT7, some or all features had to be removed and reconfigured so they could update the engine from GT Sport to make GT7 as beautiful and realistic as possible, Some of those things that got removed in the process likely included the online options. Who knows maybe they also upgraded it from the ground up? maybe the netcode is gonna be even better in GT7 with time? In any case I'm sure all the important features and more from Sport's multiplayer will get added back likely in an update in a few months at worst. This is just what you have to work with for now so find the fun in it, it is what it is.

Like the OP said, the offline content is where most people are at now anywho whilst they enjoy GT7 being essentially a return to form for the series, and a brilliant one.
 
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s0cks
Unless the last 10 menus are very long there is no way its 40hrs. Most of the starter menus were 15min and some were like 5min if that (taking photos or putting a wing on your car). Even the 3 race championships are more like 30min max.

GT Sport has loads of different single player Leagues each with 10 races iirc. It also has scapes, circuit experience, missions, and licenses.

Anyway, I don't want to come across as a hater. Cus I still think the game is good. Its just not 9/10 good. Maybe in a year when it's patched and we're given new content it could be up there for sure. But for now, it seems to me that these massive review scores are mostly for the nostalgia it's invoking in many people, or simply people riding the hype train. 9/10 is close to perfect, which I really don't think it is. But each to their own I suppose.
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Sport has missions and licenses? Genuine question, because I'm pretty sure the last time I played it, it didn't have those. And the cafe having 40 hours is what I took (well, still not finished). But that's including buying parts for the cars I'm using there, and some tuning. They do get longer though
 
I'm not sure how far along I am, but I've got a solid 25 hours invested already and I don't even think I'm half way. However, I set all difficulty to maximum with all assists off except minimal ABS, and I try hard to not over-tune my car just to win the race. I try to match the PP limits and only go above if I have to. Needless to say, this has extended my play time because I've had to try over so many times, hahaha.

I think part of the problem is that a ton of people just blow through everything instead of really absorbing it and making it a challenge. I've never been one to rush through a game.
 
Benny44
Sport has missions and licenses? Genuine question, because I'm pretty sure the last time I played it, it didn't have those. And the cafe having 40 hours is what I took (well, still not finished). But that's including buying parts for the cars I'm using there, and some tuning. They do get longer though
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Yeah it does, though whether it did on release I have no idea. But yeah, it has 48 license tests, 64 missions, and 46 different leagues events with a total of 301 races. And circuit experience with properly crafted videos that discussed how to race each sector in detail. That's a fair whack of single player content. It also had the Lewis Hamilton DLC.
 
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Acid X
I'm not sure how far along I am, but I've got a solid 25 hours invested already and I don't even think I'm half way. However, I set all difficulty to maximum with all assists off except minimal ABS, and I try hard to not over-tune my car just to win the race. I try to match the PP limits and only go above if I have to. Needless to say, this has extended my play time because I've had to try over so many times, hahaha.

I think part of the problem is that a ton of people just blow through everything instead of really absorbing it and making it a challenge. I've never been one to rush through a game.
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That's fair enough. For the most part I've not tuned any car, and usually picked something that's within 50pp of the recommended PP. The AI aren't great, so getting a pole position isn't too hard even on max difficulty (obviously this will depend on your skill level).

Personally I like racing, so I just want to unlock everything first. Then I'll go hard on hot laps, testing out tuning, online races etc... That's where I get my enjoyment from. I'd probably have enjoyed the campaign a LOT more if it were actual races and not chase the rabbit.
 
s0cks
That's fair enough. For the most part I've not tuned any car, and usually picked something that's within 50pp of the recommended PP. The AI aren't great, so getting a pole position isn't too hard even on max difficulty (obviously this will depend on your skill level).

Personally I like racing, so I just want to unlock everything first. Then I'll go hard on hot laps, testing out tuning, online races etc... That's where I get my enjoyment from. I'd probably have enjoyed the campaign a LOT more if it were actual races and not chase the rabbit.
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I hear you on chasing the rabbit- A lot of old GT's were like this as well, but there were also a decent amount of championships. Hopefully near the end-game we get better championship racing and, once PD introduces the new Sophy AI, we get even better ones!
 
s0cks
Yeah it does, though whether it did on release I have no idea. But yeah, it has 48 license tests, 64 missions, and 46 different leagues events with a total of 301 races. That's a fair whack of single player content. It also had the Lewis Hamilton DLC.
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I think this is why some of us are so confused, people saying gts was a shell of a game yet all I see different is the amount of tuning options, everything else feels very familiar between gts and 7 except 7 holds your hand more and makes it harder to progress and the online experience is poor.

I suspect folks tried gts for a day or two then never returned, it was quite a full game maybe 2 years ago.

Right now, 7 just feels tedious on all fronts compared to gts, well except the outstanding new cockpit replay, that's awesome.
 
I did one of the daily races yesterday and the PP limit was 130ish (I think).

Yet, the guy who won was lapping 10 seconds a lap faster...10 SECONDS!!!!!

In cars that barely hit 100mph.

I was pushing as fast as I could and finished 8th after starting last.

At the absolute most, and I'm being generous, he could have found a few seconds by being a supremely talented driver.

But, there's no way that guy could find 10 seconds a lap in comparable machinery in a race that allowed no set up changes of any kind.

I mention this purely to reiterate a broader point that some people are finding ways to exploit the PP limit and it is making online racing unappealing.

It'll be fixed, I imagine...but still.
 
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DodgySyrup
I did one of the daily races yesterday and the PP limit was 130ish (I think).

Yet, the guy who won was lapping 10 seconds a lap faster...10 SECONDS!!!!!

In cars that barely hit 100mph.

I was pushing as fast as I could and finished 8th after starting last.

At the absolute most, and I'm being generous, he could have found a few seconds by being a supremely talented driver.

But, there's no way that guy could find 10 seconds a lap in comparable machinery in a race that allowed no set up changes of any kind.

I mention this purely to reiterate a broader point that some people are finding ways to exploit the PP limit and it is making online racing unappealing.

It'll be fixed, I imagine...but still.
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Currently there are no PP limits on the daily races, just power/weight limits. It's making it hard to compete with people who buy carbon ceramic brakes and all the other expensive upgrades then use the power restrictor and ballasts to bring the power and weight into the limit, which is apparently better than just buying parts that reach the limit in the first place.
They really need to use the PP system so that all this is taken into account, providing it is accurate enough.
 
Haven't bought gt7 yet and I don't think I'll be rushing to by the sounds of things. I've watched a friend playing through screen share the last two nights and the game looks like fun for single player. My friend was showing me the online menus and daily races and as of now I cant see the tuning format succeeding the way they currently have it implemented online.

They need an unranked online lobby hopper mode that doesn't impact DR that has different PP levels to tune your cars to. You pick PP 500 or PP 600 and you are placed in a lobby against others who wish to compete at that PP. If it's ranked for DR people will just gravitate towards the meta/powerful cars instead of running the cars they like. To me this would be reminiscent of the old Forza 4 lobbies which was my original online racing experience and it hooked me hard. The current limitations by HP and weight won't work as everyone will have to bastardize their tunes/upgrades each week to meet requirements which to me ruins the whole idea of tuning and upgrading the car the way you want to meet a certain PP. That's my solution to the tuning for online racing. They should keep sport mode as it was in GTS and simply expand the unranked mode to have open lobbies that you can join with anyone of any skill to race cars you have tuned to a certain PP.
 
jonathansp
Currently there are no PP limits on the daily races, just power/weight limits. It's making it hard to compete with people who buy carbon ceramic brakes and all the other expensive upgrades then use the power restrictor and ballasts to bring the power and weight into the limit, which is apparently better than just buying parts that reach the limit in the first place.
They really need to use the PP system so that all this is taken into account, providing it is accurate enough.
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I see.

So, they are exploiting poor game design, would you say?
 
jonathansp
Currently there are no PP limits on the daily races, just power/weight limits. It's making it hard to compete with people who buy carbon ceramic brakes and all the other expensive upgrades then use the power restrictor and ballasts to bring the power and weight into the limit, which is apparently better than just buying parts that reach the limit in the first place.
They really need to use the PP system so that all this is taken into account, providing it is accurate enough.
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I'd guess this will be updated soon enough, along with some PP changes perhaps too.
That thing where people take seriously faster spec cars and then add weight and restrict the power so it just barely fits regulations is called "detuning" and it's been a thing for as long as I can remember, part of the GT series, but yeah it needs to be changed quite a bit in it's current state. That's why on GT Sport lobbies you'd see "no F40, no fordgt, no Porsche, no MR/RR" in lobbys, to avoid the people that would detune these faster cars for the technical advantage.
 
NevilleNobody
I think this is why some of us are so confused, people saying gts was a shell of a game yet all I see different is the amount of tuning options, everything else feels very familiar between gts and 7 except 7 holds your hand more and makes it harder to progress and the online experience is poor.

I suspect folks tried gts for a day or two then never returned, it was quite a full game maybe 2 years ago.

Right now, 7 just feels tedious on all fronts compared to gts, well except the outstanding new cockpit replay, that's awesome.
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This is basically how I feel as well. Got whiplash after getting into the esports aspect that Polyphony basically force fed you with GTS. Now they expect you to start at square one and tie sport with the single player progrsssion
 

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