Anyone know Why have Collective Minds dropped support for DD1?

[VFOURMAX1]

I also agree that licensing fees are their to gain Sony revenue, Microsoft as well (odd that you never mention them ),

I do not mention them for the main reason that first we are talking here about Sony policies and not Microsoft and when I see a direct difference in price the amount is at most $20 for xbox compatibilty not the much larger difference I have witnessed with PS compatibility.

Another reason I have never owned an xbox system and except for Fanatec have never really payed attention to the xbox overall model pricing or availability except knowing the authentication chip was in the wheel not the wheelbase for Fanatec products.

but how many times do I have to repeat this, it's the mention of the $100 price tag on the chip that I questioned. I even stated that I thought the revenue came from licensing rather than the chip.

Podium Racing Wheel F1®
$1,799.95
plus shipping and tax (if applicable)

The above is the Playstation compatible version, both prices are current at the time of this posting and direct copy and paste from the official Fanatec web site.




Podium Racing Wheel Formula for Xbox One & PC

$1,649.95

This was taken off the web site as it is the only current PS compatible option offered. As can be clearly noticed the PS version the only difference is the Sony Chip and the colors on the F1 wheel between these two options.

Seems a $150 price increase is higher than what most seem to be accustomed to seeing on the lower tier option for the Sony Tax. Also my guess is the extra $50 on this is for the difference jn the colors used on the wheel.

As you may also notice neither that wheelbase and or wheel are available to be purchased separately from each other unlike the X-box options.
Would you really care to further discuss or speculate to whether those parts not being available to purchase separately is likely the doing of the Sony corporation or the doing by choice of Fanatec?
Again I know which side of that line or choice I would put my money on if I were betting on it!

It really does not matter whether the extra premium charge is designated for the purpose of licensing or whether you want to call it the cost for the chip. The bottom line is the PS compatible versions have always in my observations been priced at least $100 higher than the closest comparable PC and xbox version across any of the tiers where a PS option was actually even offered.

Edit 2: Why do you guys seem to think Sony singled out Fanatec?

[/QUOTE]

I do not think Sony as much singled out Fanatec rather than agreed to in their contract with Logitech and Thrustmaster to give them a much cheaper per unit price due to the much higher sales volume their lower tiered units would sell in the market.

Not really big news that larger corporations carry more clout than smaller corporations and not really rocket science that the Fanatec products are going to appeal to a smaller group of buyers as their least expensive offerings have mostly been priced in the ball park of what Thrust Masters higher offering actually sell for in the real world.
Sony is going to cater to the ones that put more cash overall in their bank account that really is not rocket science level stuff in the business world either.

Again with Thrustmaster trying to play in the upper mid range market I really think it was more their demands that Sony limit the minimum per unit cost to smaller companies competing in that market to make the higher end Thrustmaster products just a bit cheaper and by being the official GTS wheel limiting competing wheels features in that title that really was more the reasoning.
Sony though is not innocent as they had to agree to those contract terms and stipulations if they were indeed the reasons.

Again nothing but speculation as we have absolutely no idea what these contacts consist of only a possible guess as to a theory that could be plausible but totally unproven and unsubstantiated.

Also as far as it only being Fanatec it seems that they apparently are the only smaller manufacturer of better quality sim gear that has tried to at least successfully jump through whatever hoops are involved in being deemed a Sony compatible product.

It also seems to be the same with the Flight Hotas controllers as many of the more respected brands of better higher end gear none of them are an option with a Sony system.
Seems most smaller companies do not feel the hassle dealing with Sony is worth the trouble would be my take on the issue..

 

[FPV MIC]

I do not mention them for the main reason that first we are talking here about Sony policies and not Microsoft and when I see a direct difference in price the amount is at most $20 for xbox compatibilty not the much larger difference I have witnessed with PS compatibility.

Another reason I have never owned an xbox system and except for Fanatec have never really payed attention to the xbox overall model pricing or availability except knowing the authentication chip was in the wheel not the wheelbase for Fanatec products.



Podium Racing Wheel F1®
$1,799.95
plus shipping and tax (if applicable)

The above is the Playstation compatible version, both prices are current at the time of this posting and direct copy and paste from the official Fanatec web site.




Podium Racing Wheel Formula for Xbox One & PC

$1,649.95

This was taken off the web site as it is the only current PS compatible option offered. As can be clearly noticed the PS version the only difference is the Sony Chip and the colors on the F1 wheel between these two options.

Seems a $150 price increase is higher than what most seem to be accustomed to seeing on the lower tier option for the Sony Tax. Also my guess is the extra $50 on this is for the difference jn the colors used on the wheel.

As you may also notice neither that wheelbase and or wheel are available to be purchased separately from each other unlike the X-box options.
Would you really care to further discuss or speculate to whether those parts not being available to purchase separately is likely the doing of the Sony corporation or the doing by choice of Fanatec?
Again I know which side of that line or choice I would put my money on if I were betting on it!

The price in your region is $1749 for the XBox/PC version until you take off the bundling discount. So in your region there's a $50 difference, again something I've also covered, which could easily be accounted for by F1 branding. In my region, as previously shown, there's no difference bar the bundling discount. This discrepancy is Sony's doing too I suppose . I've also mentioned this many times and even asked why this bundling discount could not also be applied to the PS bundle. Do you not read my posts?

It really does not matter whether the extra premium charge is designated for the purpose of licensing or whether you want to call it the cost for the chip. The bottom line is the PS compatible versions have always in my observations been priced at least $100 higher than the closest comparable PC and xbox version across any of the tiers where a PS option was actually even offered.

The part I highlighted is what I specifically haven't been doing and it's exactly what I called into question in the first place. That was what started all this BS! I've also shown that the $100 difference you mention does not seem to exist.... countless times

I do not think Sony as much singled out Fanatec rather than agreed to in their contract with Logitech and Thrustmaster to give them a much cheaper per unit price due to the much higher sales volume their lower tiered units would sell in the market.

But there is no discernible difference. There's only $50 between the two comparable DD1 Fanatec wheels/base combos after the bundle discount (in your region, and none, zero, zip in mine), and as I've already mentioned, F1 branding could easily account for that... and then there's the outlier, the CSL Elite which cost far less but had a $100 difference.

Not really big news that larger corporations carry more clout than smaller corporations and not really rocket science that the Fanatec products are going to appeal to a smaller group of buyers as their least expensive offerings have mostly been priced in the ball park of what Thrust Masters higher offering actually sell for in the real world.
Sony is going to cater to the ones that put more cash overall in their bank account that really is not rocket science level stuff in the business world either.

Again with Thrustmaster trying to play in the upper mid range market I really think it was more their demands that Sony limit the minimum per unit cost to smaller companies competing in that market to make the higher end Thrustmaster products just a bit cheaper and by being the official GTS wheel limiting competing wheels features in that title that really was more the reasoning.
Sony though is not innocent as they had to agree to those contract terms and stipulations if they were indeed the reasons.

Again nothing but speculation as we have absolutely no idea what these contacts consist of only a possible guess as to a theory that could be plausible but totally unproven and unsubstantiated.

Also as far as it only being Fanatec it seems that they apparently are the only smaller manufacturer of better quality sim gear that has tried to at least successfully jump through whatever hoops are involved in being deemed a Sony compatible product.

It also seems to be the same with the Flight Hotas controllers as many of the more respected brands of better higher end gear none of them are an option with a Sony system.
Seems most smaller companies do not feel the hassle dealing with Sony is worth the trouble would be my take on the issue..

As you mentioned, all speculation... so I'm not going to go there.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The price in your region is $1749 for the XBox/PC version until you take off the bundling discount. So in your region there's a $50 difference, again something I've also covered

The part I highlighted is what I specifically haven't been doing and it's exactly what I called into question in the first place. That was what started all this BS! I've also shown that the $100 difference you mention does not seem to exist.... countless times

But there is no discernible difference. There's only $50 between the two comparable DD1 Fanatec wheels/base combos after the bundle discount (in your region, and none, zero, zip in mine), and as I've already mentioned, F1 branding could easily account for that... and then there's the outlier, the CSL Elite which cost far less but had a $100 difference.

I have grown tired of this conversation.So this will probably end it for me. You believe what you believe and thats fine but I totally disagree with your position.

The one thing though I do not understand is how you keep saying there is no difference unless you add in the "bundling discount".
Considering that the PS compatible Fanatec option I showed in my last post is ONLY AVAILABLE strictly as that one "bundled" option why would you not use the bundled option pricing of the exact comparable xbox product to compare the prices in an apple to apple manner?

Sure IF YOU COULD BUY the Sony bundle not as a bundle then take away the bundle discount.
Then all products could be compared on an individual basis but with the way the products are sold the only way you would NOT compare the prices bundle to bundle is if you were trying to skew the results to make it appear the Sony compatible products were not at a higher price point which my prior post clearly shows is not the case.

To my knowledge all Fanatec PS compatible products have always only been available as a bundle, not assemble your own combo like with the pc/xbox products.
So until the option is there to buy PS products as not being included only in a bundle then common sense says you compare the Sony bundle to the xbox bundle to stay on an even playing field. Your methods seem to want to use apple to orange pricing methods though to make your stance on this issue seem to have merit.

Edit:
Actually your bundle difference pricing arguments sort of remind me of earlier in this conversation you sort of in the same ways want to twist how the price difference is not the chip but in the license fee when in the end it makes no difference you still pay a higher price regardless of how you distribute your description of the higher price.

Same with your using a bundled or not bundle price discount theory again to twist the perception of what the actual real world price is.

My method taking away any wording difference or phrase twisting or calling it this or not that actually is WHAT IS THE ACTUAL CHEAPEST COST to order and get either the most comparable to each other product wise xbox or ps wheelbase and wheel with (shifter module in this case) delivered to my door as a customer?

So you still want to say it will not be $150 cheaper to get that currently available x box bundle to your door than the PS compatible bundle delivered to your door?
That my friend totally is the deciding bottom line on this pricing difference all BS aside!

 

[CVpS5]

So as not to boil the ocean discussing commercials etc, back to my original question, why are Collective Minds saying that their Drive Hub does not support a the licensed Fanatec Podium DD1? Can’t see why they would be concerned about the various commercial conundrums between Fanatec and Sony…so is there another technical reason for the lack of official support - even though it seems to work as you would expect because the DD1 is licensed for PlayStation.

 

[FPV MIC]

I have grown tired of this conversation.So this will probably end it for me. You believe what you believe and thats fine but I totally disagree with your position.

The one thing though I do not understand is how you keep saying there is no difference unless you add in the "bundling discount".
Considering that the PS compatible Fanatec option I showed in my last post is ONLY AVAILABLE strictly as that one "bundled" option why would you not use the bundled option pricing of the exact comparable xbox product to compare the prices in an apple to apple manner?

Sure IF YOU COULD BUY the Sony bundle not as a bundle then take away the bundle discount.
Then all products could be compared on an individual basis but with the way the products are sold the only way you would NOT compare the prices bundle to bundle is if you were trying to skew the results to make it appear the Sony compatible products were not at a higher price point which my prior post clearly shows is not the case.

To my knowledge all Fanatec PS compatible products have always only been available as a bundle, not assemble your own combo like with the pc/xbox products.
So until the option is there to buy PS products as not being included only in a bundle then common sense says you compare the Sony bundle to the xbox bundle to stay on an even playing field. Your methods seem to want to use apple to orange pricing methods though to make your stance on this issue seem to have merit.

Edit:
Actually your bundle difference pricing arguments sort of remind me of earlier in this conversation you sort of in the same ways want to twist how the price difference is not the chip but in the license fee when in the end it makes no difference you still pay a higher price regardless of how you distribute your description of the higher price.

Same with your using a bundled or not bundle price discount theory again to twist the perception of what the actual real world price is.

My method taking away any wording difference or phrase twisting or calling it this or not that actually is WHAT IS THE ACTUAL CHEAPEST COST to order and get either the most comparable to each other product wise xbox or ps wheelbase and wheel with (shifter module in this case) delivered to my door as a customer?

So you still want to say it will not be $150 cheaper to get that currently available x box bundle to your door than the PS compatible bundle delivered to your door?
That my friend totally is the deciding bottom line on this pricing difference all BS aside!

Okay I'll give you the bundling price difference but you still don't get it. The thing I was disagreeing with was the very specific $100 chip price tag. It was so specific it was even said to be in AUD. I even said I think price differences across the brands could be more to do with licensing than that very specific chip price tag. The Hori pad was an example of how this doesn't seem to be to be possible, and the TM and Logitech prices seem to back that up. Why I'm having to defend myself from this $100AUD chip claim is a mystery to me, as is why it's seemingly only different for Fanatec. I didn't make the claim about the chip and I've asked twice now for a source and still... ''crickets''.

Again, I didn't make the claim so it's not up to me to prove it either way. I just questioned it! All I'm getting is Fanatec charges it so it must be so, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

[Rob Brown]

@CVpS5 You have nothing to lose by asking them directly and nicely.
Otherwise, speculation is all we have (and look [above] what that can do!)
Also, seems they didn’t drop support as much as they never had it and made the mistake of marketing so. We really don’t know how the DriveHub processes the data, so although you know by trial that it “works” but with serious problems, you won’t likely get a good technical explanation from them. (Maybe you could offer to sign a non-disclosure agreement for the answer!) Best of luck with that! Man, if Sprint pedals or any other PC only pedals worked with PS/GT I’d be thrilled. But guys like you and me will either lump it with Sony or find PC sim titles that fulfill our desires. Please keep me appraised!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Okay I'll give you the bundling price difference but you still don't get it. The thing I was disagreeing with was the very specific $100 chip price tag. It was so specific it was even said to be in AUD. I even said I think price differences across the brands could be more to do with licensing than that very specific chip price tag.

My personal feeling the way most people view the chip/ licensing fee is that one is no different than the other and boils down to the same thing which is a higher price point.
When a customer looks at a Fanatec system the only apparent difference they can see is that one has a "different security chip" in it to make it Sony compatible so they refer to that price difference as being because of the chip.

Again bottom line does not matter on a $100 price increase whether you assign $20 to the chip and $80 to the licensing fee or reverse it and assign $80 to the chip and $20 to the licensing fee as it still results in the exact same final answer of the system is still $100 higher so assigning a value to distinguish those two cost is actually irrelevant to the end result.

The answer you are getting actually more refers to it really makes little sense that Fanatec would just choose to charge higher prices for Sony products if the cost was the same as the xbox.
What makes more sense is that Fanatec is paying a higher cost to be Sony compatible than be xbox compatible and the products price difference actually reflect the higher cost to Fanatec.

My feeling is Fanatec would follow the same build your own bundle and a similar pricing structure across the board if Sony was not controlling what they can offer or how they could sell it and charging them more dollars per unit that for Fanatec to meet their profit numbers is resulting in the increased cost to the consumer for a Fanatec Sony compatible option versus what that cost totals for xbox compatibility units that allows the somewhat lower pricing.
Again it really amounts to business 101 and is not some dark conspiracy, cost are what they are resulting in prices are what they are.

 

[FPV MIC]

My personal feeling the way most people view the chip/ licensing fee is that one is no different than the other and boils down to the same thing which is a higher price point.
When a customer looks at a Fanatec system the only apparent difference they can see is that one has a "different security chip" in it to make it Sony compatible so they refer to that price difference as being because of the chip.

Again bottom line does not matter on a $100 price increase whether you assign $20 to the chip and $80 to the licensing fee or reverse it and assign $80 to the chip and $20 to the licensing fee as it still results in the exact same final answer of the system is still $100 higher so assigning a value to distinguish those two cost is actually irrelevant to the end result.

The answer you are getting actually more refers to it really makes little sense that Fanatec would just choose to charge higher prices for Sony products if the cost was the same as the xbox.
What makes more sense is that Fanatec is paying a higher cost to be Sony compatible than be xbox compatible and the products price difference actually reflect the higher cost to Fanatec.

My feeling is Fanatec would follow the same build your own bundle and a similar pricing structure across the board if Sony was not controlling what they can offer or how they could sell it and charging them more dollars per unit that for Fanatec to meet their profit numbers is resulting in the increased cost to the consumer for a Fanatec Sony compatible option versus what that cost totals for xbox compatibility units that allows the somewhat lower pricing.
Again it really amounts to business 101 and is not some dark conspiracy, cost are what they are resulting in prices are what they are.

Seems a fairly reasonable assumption to me, and while it's still all speculation this is probably the most reasonable answer I'll get, so thanks for that as it wasn't up to you to provide me with anything at all. Tends to lean more towards what I was saying rather than the existence of the mythical $100AUD chip (edit: the price tag, not the chip itself) because as I previously mentioned ''if it's different for them, then that's on them'' (to negotiate a better deal).

Regarding the build your own bundling, and I've said this before, I think it would be great (for all brands). I've also noticed that while once you couldn't buy a T300 base separately that's now possible so there's still hope. I also mentioned my theory on this before with regards to Fanatec in particular. The rumoured cross console compatible wheel + base at the start of the chip introduction was the stumbling block that I think was possibly the cause of this. I know the button caps on the wheels switch out but I doubt this was enough to convince Sony when the wheel could possibly still have more predominant Xbox branding (as it has their chip in it).

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Seems a fairly reasonable assumption to me, and while it's still all speculation this is probably the most reasonable answer I'll get, so thanks for that as it wasn't up to you to provide me with anything at all.

Regarding the build your own bundling, and I've said this before, I think it would be great (for all brands). I've also noticed that while once you couldn't buy a T300 base separately that's now possible so there's still hope. I also mentioned my theory on this before with regards to Fanatec in particular. The rumoured cross console compatible wheel + base at the start of the chip introduction was the stumbling block that I think was possibly the cause of this. I know the button caps on the wheels switch out but I doubt this was enough to convince Sony when the wheel could possibly still have more predominant Xbox branding (as it has their chip in it).

Basically Sony has always marched to their own drumbeat, sometimes it has been positive but many times it has not.
The chip/licensing, control issue for the peripheral devices though the one that really pays the price is the users of the platform resulting in so many fewer choices and higher prices.
Does Sony care, apparently not as they have done this for years and would rather it seems the users have fewer limited choices that they can make more money through licensing fees on.
Basically the question is it also that Sony really wants to deal with fewer and preferably larger manufacturers only or is it the smaller manufacturers really just do not want the hassle of dealing with Sony?

My last personal feeling is that Sony and the PS platform not only limit my choices in peripherals but in many cases it seems I have to pay a higher price for the privilege of fewer choices, couple that with having to have a ps+subscription to play any of my games online almost makes me feel like they are again charging me a use tax for the platform.
For these reasons plus limited to no game choices in the genre of the games I have now began to play and I enjoy my solution was to basically at the present time no longer support or buy any PS products.

 

[Goonie75]

@CVpS5 have you posted in the main Drivehub thread? Also you could try sending Podger a message, he created the DH and does all the firmwares.

 

[CVpS5]

@CVpS5 have you posted in the main Drivehub thread? Also you could try sending Podger a message, he created the DH and does all the firmwares.

 

[CVpS5]

@Goonie75 I did post in the DH thread and I did message @Podger too but he did not reply to either post/message

 

[Goonie75]

@Goonie75 I did post in the DH thread and I did message @Podger too but he did not reply to either post/message

Sorry to hear, normally he is pretty good at replying.

 

[Beezer215]

I've seen videos of people using a DD2 on GT Sport with a drivehub. They said it works and showed that it does.
My guess is that if some people, maybe not tech savvy or whatnot, are having issues, Collective Minds doesn't want hundreds of emails asking why something doesn't work right. It's easier for them to say it's not supported than to continue. I have a DD2 and I have a drivehub on the way to test. I can post the findings when it gets here.

 

[CVpS5]

I've seen videos of people using a DD2 on GT Sport with a drivehub. They said it works and showed that it does.
My guess is that if some people, maybe not tech savvy or whatnot, are having issues, Collective Minds doesn't want hundreds of emails asking why something doesn't work right. It's easier for them to say it's not supported than to continue. I have a DD2 and I have a drivehub on the way to test. I can post the findings when it gets here.

Thanks Beezer. I did hear from Podger a couple of weeks ago. He promised to think about my config and let me know but I have not heard from him since. It will be interesting to know what you find when you plug in your DD2!

 

[Beezer215]

I can confirm with 100% certainty that the DD2 with Porsche Endurance wheel and Heusinkveld pedals works in Gran Turismo Sport.
I'm using them right now.

 

[Rinki]

I can confirm with 100% certainty that the DD2 with Porsche Endurance wheel and Heusinkveld pedals works in Gran Turismo Sport.
I'm using them right now.

Hello, I would like to use my Fanatec Podium F1 wheel (the one licensed for Playstation 4) on my Playstation 3 (e.g. with GT 5). Does anyone knows whether this will work either with CronusZen or Ras1ution 2?

Ras1ution 2

Cronus Zen

Many thanks!