Are you really looking forward to the future?

[TopHat]

That has to be a real car.

Is my eyes that bad to get die cast and real cars mixed up?



 

[Tornado]

Found one that I think no-one could argue that it isn't a improvement.

Aston Martin Lagonda

Aston Martin Rapide


The Rapide is scheduled for 2009, I think. I choose these two as Aston's last 4dr car was the Lagonda and the Rapide is "supposed" to be it's sort of replacement. I think it is a huge step forward.

While the Rapide clearly looks better than the Lagonda, that is an unfair comparison for a few reasons:

1. The market positioning of the two cars is completely different. The Lagonda was a Rolls-Royce competitor. The Rapide competes with the BMW M5. As such, the Rapide does not "replace" the Lagonda in any sense other than they have 4 doors.
   
2. Saying that the Rapide is a completely different model styling wise than the Aston DB9 is like saying the Altima Coupe is a completely different car model than the Altima sedan. As such, they didn't style the Rapide so much as they added two doors to the DB9.
3. Saying that a new car that looks better than 90% of every other car on the market doesn't really mean much, does it? Nor does it really knock against the previous car.

 

[Sage]

Only 90%? If you’re talking about the DB9, that should probably be closer to 99%.

 

[Orion]

I've sold my coupe and just bought an RX8.



Its real, honest. It just looks small as its parked next to a huge keyboard

What coupe can get you a RX-8? That Peugeot 406 ain't going to cut it.

 

[Orion]

The SRT-4 was great, but the key word is WAS.

Now we have this wierd... errr..... thing.

 

[Orion]

I ain't making a new thread for this, but what were they thinking when designing the WRX lately? What used to be a Subaru is becoming a Toyota on the exterior.

 

[Joey D]

It's a fast car that caters more to the middle aged crowd that do not want to look like a bunch of boy racers. Subaru did a smart thing considering most young people can't afford a WRX let alone the insurance on one.

 

[Tornado]

It's a fast car that caters more to the middle aged crowd that do not want to look like a bunch of boy racers. Subaru did a smart thing considering most young people can't afford a WRX let alone the insurance on one.

Ah, so literally and figuratively completely destroying the WRXs lineage, credentials and abilities in one full swoop made it a better car? Joey, we've got to get together some time. Your sense of humour is impeccable. You're the only one that has said anything other than how the new WRX is not only an insult to the Imprezas of the past, but to Subaru as a whole; so you must be joking. Right?

Subaru did a smart thing? Don't make me waste the next year of my life laughing.

 

[Joey D]

Unlike a majority of people on this forum I look at the automotive world through other then a gear heads goggles since I like cars but I'm not into cars as much as some people on these board...and I'm not not saying anything negative about them.

Car makers can not make every car with edgy styling, insane amounts of power, and rail handling. It just doesn't work. Look at the people who typically buy new cars, they are on average older, middle aged people because they have the money to support buying and insuring such a car. The test I always think of is whether or not my parents would drive x car, if they wouldn't then it's probably not catered to the middle aged crowd.

 

[Tornado]

Unlike a majority of people on this forum I look at the automotive world through other then a gear heads goggles since I like cars but I'm not into cars as much as some people on these board...and I'm not not saying anything negative about them.

Which is the problem, because it shows you completely missed the point of the Subaru Impreza WRX, or any Subaru, for that matter. They have always been about being different enough that you could look past their low refinement or comprised driving manners because the car was truly something special.
Subaru completely eliminated the character of Subarus that makes them Subarus with the WRX, and they didn't balance it out by making it any better. So now the car is now both useless as a drivers car and useless as a Corolla alternative. It has no point.

Car makers can not make every car with edgy styling, insane amounts of power, and rail handling. It just doesn't work.

It worked for Subaru for 15 years. Only recently, starting with the redesigned B9 Tribeca (which is now ugly and generic instead of ugly and statement making), have the felt the need to go mainstream, and it was hardly due to lack of sales. It was because Subaru felt the need to get greedy.

Look at the people who typically buy new cars, they are on average older, middle aged people because they have the money to support buying and insuring such a car.

There is a large problem with that theory: The WRX was catered specifically to people in their 20s. And it still sold in large numbers. The WRX was a desirable enough of a car that people would find ways to pay for it regardless of age. The new WRX is not desirable in any way at all. Subaru ruined the car in every possible way.

The test I always think of is whether or not my parents would drive x car, if they wouldn't then it's probably not catered to the middle aged crowd.

The problem is that they catered it towards the middle age crowd. If a middle aged person wants a fast car, they buy a big engined sedan. They won't go to Subaru for a peaky turbocharged car with no advantages over the competitors in its class.

 

[Joey D]

Which is the problem, because it shows you completely missed the point of the Subaru Impreza WRX, or any Subaru, for that matter. They have always been about being different enough that you could look past their low refinement or comprised driving manners because the car was truly something special.
Subaru completely eliminated the character of Subarus that makes them Subarus with the WRX, and they didn't balance it out by making it any better. So now the car is now both useless as a drivers car and useless as a Corolla alternative. It has no point.

Any Subaru? Not all Subaru's are special the early to mid 90's Impreza's were dreadfully bad and boring. FWD and not get up a go, that's not exactly an emotional mover. Or dare I talk about the Brat? Or some of the Kei versions in Japan?

I don't see the WRX anymore useless then say the VW R32, it's a sport compact made for the older generation that want to go fast but don't want to look like a boy racer in doing so. I bet you any money if I showed the car to my parents or anyone between the ages of 35-55 they would like the styling on the car. I don't see why middle aged people can't have fun cars.

It worked for Subaru for 15 years. Only recently, starting with the redesigned B9 Tribeca (which is now ugly and generic instead of ugly and statement making), have the felt the need to go mainstream, and it was hardly due to lack of sales. It was because Subaru felt the need to get greedy.

Once again, the Brat, Justy, Vivo, first generation of Legacy and Impreza. They weren't powerful cars and certainly aren't anything to really look at...at least in my opinion. I don't think you would really find many people that would classify these cars are edgy looking when compared to other cars of the day...I might be wrong though, I wasn't very old in the early 90's.

There is a large problem with that theory: The WRX was catered specifically to people in their 20s. And it still sold in large numbers. The WRX was a desirable enough of a car that people would find ways to pay for it regardless of age. The new WRX is not desirable in any way at all. Subaru ruined the car in every possible way.

In the past it was catered to people in their 20's, now it might not be. Auto makers pay people millions of dollars to figure this stuff out. Maybe the average age of a buyer wasn't as low as it used to be, maybe there were to many dealer complaints about consumer complaints. I don't know I'm not in marketing but there is always a reason why a vehicle looks the way it does.

And while I don't have great experience with this as I've always been able to afford pretty much whatever car I desired...yes there was a point when I actually wanted a Blazer...but with many younger kids there parents do end up making the final call on whether they get x car or not. I have several friends that wanted say an SRT-4, Camaro SS, hell even a Grand Prix GTP but their parents said no because of insurance costs and the chance their son/daughter would probably kill themselves behind the wheel.

 

[Tornado]

Any Subaru? Not all Subaru's are special the early to mid 90's Impreza's were dreadfully bad and boring. FWD and not get up a go, that's not exactly an emotional mover. Or dare I talk about the Brat? Or some of the Kei versions in Japan?

All of which still had character. Character that linked them to other Subarus simply by feel. Just like Volvos feel like Volvos and Saabs feel like Saabs. The new Impreza is just as much of an insult to the Subaru character as the 9-7X was an insult to the Saab character.

I don't see the WRX anymore useless then say the VW R32, it's a sport compact made for the older generation that want to go fast but don't want to look like a boy racer in doing so.

Aside from the half again price difference, there is a huge dividing factor between the WRX and the R32: The R32 is put together well, and the Subaru still isn't. The Subaru does not have build quality advantage over any of its competitors like the R32 does, and there are a fair few cars in the segment that handle better, are more fun or are faster than the WRX now. It has no advantages.

I bet you any money if I showed the car to my parents or anyone between the ages of 35-55 they would like the styling on the car.

Which, one more time, is the problem with the WRX in the first place.

I don't see why middle aged people can't have fun cars.

They can. But the WRX isn't one of them anymore.

Once again, the Brat, Justy, Vivo, first generation of Legacy and Impreza. They weren't powerful cars and certainly aren't anything to really look at...at least in my opinion. I don't think you would really find many people that would classify these cars are edgy looking when compared to other cars of the day...I might be wrong though, I wasn't very old in the early 90's.

But they didn't have to be edgy looking or fast. Because they were different, and they were all linked by the Subaru genes and character. The WRX is boring and wholly unrelated to Subarus past. That is the problem, and that is why the new WRX is a failure in every way possible.

In the past it was catered to people in their 20's, now it might not be. Auto makers pay people millions of dollars to figure this stuff out. Maybe the average age of a buyer wasn't as low as it used to be, maybe there were to many dealer complaints about consumer complaints. I don't know I'm not in marketing but there is always a reason why a vehicle looks the way it does.

I can tell you what the reason is right now: Subaru wanted to sell cars to more people. And in making it so the WRX would do so, they have completely ruined the car, and made it far less attractive compared to its competitors than it was before. And why? Because it is a crappy poseur sports car with poor build quality, and with no point as it has a better alternative in every category.

And while I don't have great experience with this as I've always been able to afford pretty much whatever car I desired...yes there was a point when I actually wanted a Blazer...but with many younger kids there parents do end up making the final call on whether they get x car or not. I have several friends that wanted say an SRT-4, Camaro SS, hell even a Grand Prix GTP but their parents said no because of insurance costs and the chance their son/daughter would probably kill themselves behind the wheel.

And what does that have to do with anything? A teen buying a car and a 20 year old buying a car (the WRXs previous demographic) are 2 wholly different things.

 

[Joey D]

Which, one more time, is the problem with the WRX in the first place.

I don't see that as a problem, if they want to market it towards older people then they must have a good reason to do so. You can not make everyone happy with a car.

But they didn't have to be edgy looking or fast. Because they were different, and they were all linked by the Subaru genes and character. The WRX is boring and wholly unrelated to Subarus past. That is the problem, and that is why the new WRX is a failure in every way possible.

The Brat, Justy, Vivo, first generation of Legacy and Impreza aren't exactly different. The Brat was just a smalled version of what Chevy did with the El Camino and Ford did with it's Ranchero. And there were other smaller truck things around the same time, VW Caddy and Dodge Rampage both come to mind. The Justy and Vivo looks no more different then any other small car of the time period. The same goes with the Legacy and Impreza in their earlier forms. These cars weren't different and all looked rather bland. Sure the had optional AWD on some models which is really the only thing I could think of that might make them different.

Maybe Subaru wanted to go another direction, and just because you personally think it's a failure doesn't mean it is, just like me saying it isn't one doesn't really count for anything either. We will just have wait until some sales figures show up and see if it actually sells. There isn't a Subaru dealership around me even so I can't just swing by there and see if there are any on the lot or not.

I can tell you what the reason is right now: Subaru wanted to sell cars to more people. And in making it so the WRX would do so, they have completely ruined the car, and made it far less attractive compared to its competitors than it was before.

So selling more cars is a bad thing? Companies are out to make money, no cater every car to a special niche. I mean if you want an unrefined, badass, fast Subaru there is always the STi model. And if you don't like Mitsubishi will gladly sell you their edgy Evo.

And what does that have to do with anything? A teen buying a car and a 20 year old buying a car (the WRXs previous demographic) are 2 wholly different things.

I'm saying that kids might want the car and it might be marketed towards them but they probably aren't the ones buying them. And as for insurance mine is no different now then when I was 18.

 

[Tornado]

I don't see that as a problem, if they want to market it towards older people then they must have a good reason to do so. You can not make everyone happy with a car.

But you can't say that them hamming up the styling and ruining the cars driving dynamics is the same as marketing it towards older people.

These cars weren't different and all looked rather bland.

You don't seem to understand the concept of brand character and philosophy, so I won't press the issue any more.

Maybe Subaru wanted to go another direction, and just because you personally think it's a failure doesn't mean it is, just like me saying it isn't one doesn't really count for anything either. We will just have wait until some sales figures show up and see if it actually sells.

The problem is that you can't measure the quality of a car based on success. Of course the new Impreza will sell more. It has been seriously compromised as a drivers car to be more mainstream. The problem is that its life as a cheap drivers car has been destroyed intentionally to garner more sales. And because the Impreza was always purely a drivers car, that is why it is a huge step backwards for Subaru to have made.

So selling more cars is a bad thing? Companies are out to make money, no cater every car to a special niche. I mean if you want an unrefined, badass, fast Subaru there is always the STi model. And if you don't like Mitsubishi will gladly sell you their edgy Evo.

You are missing the point still. The Scooby was a cheap drivers car on every level. Period. It is no longer a drivers car in any of them, and that is a major problem because that is the only thing that Subaru sold them on. They weren't sold on quality, because the Hondas and Toyotas were put together better. And they weren't sold on price, because they were quite expensive. So Subaru went after the drivers car route. Doing what Subaru did with this car, quite frankly, ruins any appeal the WRX might have had because it no longer has any advantages over the competition.

I'm saying that kids might want the car and it might be marketed towards them but they probably aren't the ones buying them. And as for insurance mine is no different now then when I was 18.

But it wasn't marketed towards kids who lived with their parents. It was marketed towards the 20 somethings who had demanded the car for 5 years before we got it.

 

[Orion]

+Rep goes to Toronado, I agree with him 100%.
2.5 RS (I think)

WRX STi

I don't think this would appeal to any specific age group. 👎 I used to like the 2.5 RS model, but now its just... I do praise Subaru, however, for fixing the B9 Tribeca's exterior.

!!

Now made to a more decent car to look at.

I still don't like how the back of this car looks though.

 

[Joey D]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the STi looks decent then, huh?

 

[crimson_menace]

Agreed.

This:

Looks better than:

That.

Can't make that any clearer.👍


And my 2 cents on the new "Impreza": It looks like a '03 Camry got rearended @ mach 4 by an '01 Impreza, and they became fused together by sheer inertia. Subaru saw this, and called 'dibs' on the monstrosity. Coining it the new "Impreza."

 

[Tornado]

Now made to a more decent car to look at.

Nonsense. It is still inherently ugly. Now it is just generic, which is both a good and a bad thing.

 

[Orion]

Nonsense. It is still inherently ugly. Now it is just generic, which is both a good and a bad thing.

Atleast the interior is quite good, also I said it looked "more" decent, not looked decent.

 

[Pupik]

I don't think anyone here will say that the nasty early Fox cars look good by any measure.

I will. The Fox-body Mustang peaked in style in the mid-1980's. My pop had an '84 GT, so I thought it was a clean, if angular, design typical of 1980's sports cars. It wasn't over-wrought, in my opinion.

It turned worse with the 1987-restyle; tacked-on plastic aero paneling and louvered taillights were foisted upon the Mustang faithful until 1993, long after the short-lived trend had died out (around 1986).

And the 1994-98 re-re-design was cackfully hideous. At least they toned it down in '99 or so.

It worked for Subaru for 15 years. Only recently, starting with the redesigned B9 Tribeca (which is now ugly and generic instead of ugly and statement making), have the felt the need to go mainstream, and it was hardly due to lack of sales. It was because Subaru felt the need to get greedy.

The point is still sales figures, especially if Fuji Heavy Industries is still looking to sell the brand to another automaker. A company making only slightly-better than average-performing cars can't charge too much for their products and still make money. Subaru isn't a boutique brand like Lotus, which may bleed enthusiasm, but they've been in and out of debt for 25 years now to prove it.

 

[Tornado]

A company making only slightly-better than average-performing cars can't charge too much for their products and still make money.

The problem with that theory is that when Subaru started making all of their cars generic, they didn't make them any better to make up for it. They may be easier to live with, but they aren't better at generic than some of their competitors, and they aren't different anymore to make up for their lack of quality. Will they sell better? Who knows. I'm sure most of the Subaru faithful will dump the brand and buy used, and because of their quality shortcomings I don't think they will gain that much sales on, say, the Corolla.
Then again, they are mainstream. So they might.

 

[Orion]

The sexiest BMW to ever hit the streets.

I know this picture is a concept 8 Series, but that car is really not making me look forward to the future.

Classic.

Still classic.

Errr.....

If I wanted a V8 FF, I would've just bought a Taurus SHO. The Camaro might end up being an FF too if this continues.

 

[YSSMAN]

Rest assured, the Camaro is definitely RWD. Oh, and the next Impala will be too. So be happy that you can do two-track burnouts with your 360 BHP Impala LT in about a year or mores time...

BTW: I really don't think the FWD Impala SS is that bad. It still performs well for a front-driver, but obviously Pontiac got the better deal with the Grand Prix GXP in the handling department... Both will match the previous 4L60E automatic versions of the Firebird and Camaro...

 

[Keef]

1992 Civic hatchback = ~2100 pounds.

2007 Civic (no hatchback? WTH) coupe = ~2900 pounds.

 

[Matt R]

If an Aztek looked like this it might do better in sales.

 

[superberkut]

Are you really looking forward to the future in automotive design?

Before: I say no. I think they ruined the TVR Speed 12's look. I loved how wide it used to look, and the race car models look much better.

After:​

Before: Lincoln Navigator - Just plain ugly now, and the interior looks cheesier.

After:

Before: Chrysler Sebring (I know you saw this comming.)

After:

Before: Lets not forget the Lancer Evolution.

After:

I wouldn't call that sexy. **


Before: Scion xB - What used to be a cool boxy brick is now more round and curvy.

After:

I don't like how the automotive world is evolving, this also include speed limiters set at 37MPH for some diesel engines. I enjoyed the look of the old Mustang 5.0 and Mustang SVT Cobra, but not the new ones, they just don't appeal to me. These are a few examples of what cars I don't like as they evolve. I also liked the 2006 Toyota Camry V6 SE more than the new one.

Are you looking towards the future? I know I'm not... ** Sure there might be better engines, but the only car that is new that I like is the Ford Fusion SE V6.

*throws up*

The Lancer isn't half-bad, however, the Lincoln Navigator has, and always will be, ugly and something that (no offense intended, just what I call by sight) tiny women drive while yakking on their cellphones and hitting poor unsuspecting cyclists. Or it seems that way. Or until the Navigator loses 3000 pounds, 12 inches off its roof, 6 inches off each wheel, and gains a sexy new profile. Or, simply, it becomes a sportscar.

I know because a friend of mine got hit. He spent a week in traction.

Frankly, the entire overdoing of the idea and bringing back a long-dead and rather chintzy trend from the 50s offends me. I agree with Wolfe, though it is too hard to ignore that this may occur.

As for that 8 Series: *low whistle*

The Scion xB was more of an oddity, not good-looking but 'acceptable'.

Frankly, the future will be ugly for cars, but better for our environment, and that's important. Unless the Navigator remains an SUV.