Aston Martin DBR9 Confirmed for GT Sport

[meekrab]

Sim’s still struggle to simulate older cars and their limitations compared to modern cars.

On paper the F1 GTR is 100bhp to the good and 150kg lighter than a GTE/GT3. Yet the ‘96 short-tail F1 GTR qualified in 3.48 at Le Mans. The ‘95 car (which is in GTS) qualified in 3.57.

The 2019 GTE pole was 3.48.

If the sim is actually designed to simulate the car as it existed in 1995, it wouldn't struggle. The thing is the GTR in the game runs the same modern Michelin tires and has the same aero and chassis properties as the other Gr. 3 cars that are 20 years newer, so it needs massive BoP handicaps to avoid making a mockery of the class; with the result that it doesn't drive at all like the 1995 car would with massive straightline speed and clumsy (relative to a 2020 GTLM car) handling.

 

[-Fred-]

Sim’s still struggle to simulate older cars and their limitations compared to modern cars.

On paper the F1 GTR is 100bhp to the good and 150kg lighter than a GTE/GT3. Yet the ‘96 short-tail F1 GTR qualified in 3.48 at Le Mans. The ‘95 car (which is in GTS) qualified in 3.57.

The 2019 GTE pole was 3.48.

Completely irrelevant, the track layout changed massively between 1996 and now.

 

[juanffy18]

Sooooooooo, when? This time next week?

This thursday silhouettes next thursday the update, is my vote

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Pole time Honda HSV-010 GT (H010) 1: 55.237 2010 (suzuka). Doesn't the old super gt seem much closer to gr.3 than we thought?

This is basically mental gymnastics + borderline trolling.

Sim’s still struggle to simulate older cars and their limitations compared to modern cars.

On paper the F1 GTR is 100bhp to the good and 150kg lighter than a GTE/GT3. Yet the ‘96 short-tail F1 GTR qualified in 3.48 at Le Mans. The ‘95 car (which is in GTS) qualified in 3.57.

The 2019 GTE pole was 3.48.

Wonder if people are aware that the McLaren F1 was technically in the second-tier category that year and that people thought the Courage C34s, Kremer K8s or Ferrari 333SPs were going to win...

Completely irrelevant, the track layout changed massively between 1996 and now.

Actually, it is relevant, especially when you consider that the ACO still left the benchmark of what they considered at too fast at 3:19, unless you're trying to say you know better than the ACO...

 

[Pururut]

The GT-R is a legit GT3 car slow but legit the F1 GTR is a 90s GT1 car thrown in there because ressons.

Mclaren F1 isnt the only non Gt3 car in Gr.3

 

[Volksauto]

This thursday silhouettes next thursday the update, is my vote

I’d guess Saturday.

 

[-Fred-]

Actually, it is relevant, especially when you consider that the ACO still left the benchmark of what they considered at too fast at 3:19, unless you're trying to say you know better than the ACO...

I fail to see how stating lap times for three cars (the F1 GTR, the DBR9 and last year's pole winning Aston) that competed on 3 different layouts of the same track is a relevant comparison, and I also fail to see what the ACO argument has to do with said topic.

 

[George Jakob]

Mclaren F1 isnt the only non Gt3 car in Gr.3

True but at least the 911 RSR and the Supra racing concept make more senae than a 25 year old car.

 

[05XR8]

Sucks for those that chose Aston Martin already. The first Manu Gr.3 race is next week. Would have been nice to have gotten the(possible) update Monday or today(Tuesday).

 

[ZedNinetySix]

I think this thread should now be named
"McLaren F1 GTR Opinions, Ego's and Arguements Thread"

 

[ScottPuss20]

If the sim is actually designed to simulate the car as it existed in 1995, it wouldn't struggle. The thing is the GTR in the game runs the same modern Michelin tires and has the same aero and chassis properties as the other Gr. 3 cars that are 20 years newer, so it needs massive BoP handicaps to avoid making a mockery of the class; with the result that it doesn't drive at all like the 1995 car would with massive straightline speed and clumsy (relative to a 2020 GTLM car) handling.

The McLaren doesn't have as much aerodynamic grip as a GT3 car. What are you talking about?

 

[GTV0819]

I think this thread should now be named
"McLaren F1 GTR Opinions, Ego's and Arguements Thread"

Good suggestion but you should tell it to the mods right away.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I'll just leave it here:

spa francorchamps qualification times:
SPA

GT1 2008 (2:14.246)
GT1 2004 (2:15.047)
GTE 2017 (2:12.420)
GTE 2015 (2:16.420)
GT3 2019 (2:19.315)
GT1' 97(2:08.984)
Group C' 91(1:59.350)
LMP2019 (1:53.683)
LMP2012 (2:01.579)
LMP1999 (2:07.715)

Do you really believe that gt1 out of 90 go the same way as modern gt3s ???

Some of those older times should be taken with a pinch of salt, the bus stop was changed for 2004 and again for 2007, a few other changes around the track made it quicker too (more asphalt runoff, etc).

 

[ZedNinetySix]

Again, that makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. If the old F1 GTR was in Gr.2, nobody would use it because it would be dead-last in pace.

Case in point; as real lap times show, the McLaren F1 GTR of 1996 is about 3-4 seconds slower than todays 2020 GT3 per lap round Suzuka.

With the McLaren F1 GTR getting a 2:02.502 during the POKKA 1000 in 1996.

While the Ferrari 488 GT3 gets a 1:58.748 in the 2019 5 Hours of Suzuka in Super Taikyu.


View attachment 891697
View attachment 891699

View attachment 891698
View attachment 891695
Your opinions may want these cars in Gr.2, but opinions can be wrong. With facts proving how fittingly they compare with Gr.3/GT3 speed.

Your optimism baffles me, if you think a 24 year old GT car can keep up with a 2016 Super-GT500 monster, then I must nominate you for a Darwin Award.

2016 Super-GT500 lap times are a 1:44.319 at best. 14 seconds faster than a GT3, and 18 seconds faster than an F1 GTR. And god knows how many seconds faster than that DBR9 GT1!
Thats totally balanced for Gr.2 isn't it!
View attachment 891701

The reason why I used Suzuka Circuit as a base for lap-times is because the layout has not changed for multiple decades. It's one of the best places to compare lap times as the circuit layout has remained unchanged for so long.

I cant help but giggle reading people trying to compare laptimes of cars over 30+ years apart from eachother on circuits like Spa Francorchamps or Circuit De La Sarthe
(which have change drastically every decade or so) and people are still trying.
Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Mclaren F1 isnt the only non Gt3 car in Gr.3

You're forgetting the Porsche 911 RSR and BMW M3 GT, both of which are GT2/GTE.

 

[GTPorsche]

The reason why I used Suzuka Circuit as a base for lap-times is because the layout has not changed for multiple decades. It's one of the best places to compare lap times as the circuit layout has remained unchanged for so long.

I cant help but giggle reading people trying to compare laptimes of cars over 30+ years apart from eachother on circuits like Spa Francorchamps or Circuit De La Sarthe
(which have change drastically every decade or so) and people are still trying.
Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse.

Except Suzuka has had corners reprofiled/altered slightly in 2005.

 

[Arkseven]

I'm really happy about this. I don't want to get into "road cars vs race cars in GT Sport" debate, but damn i'm glad we're getting a race car.

And it's a pretty and big boy. I'm already imagining the liveries. Oh boy!

 

[tankuroded]

What else could possibly be added to Gr.2? My only thoughts are for modern DTM cars. JGTC era cars do fit the lineup but are way too weak against its newer counterparts.

If you want missing pieces of Super GT era from previous games, there's YellowHat YMS Supra, Xanavi Nismo Z, and the HSV-010. They could also add the IS F Racing Concept while at it since it was a reskinned DTM car.

You're forgetting the Porsche 911 RSR and BMW M3 GT, both of which are GT2/GTE.

The Supra RC was also designed for GTE regulations.​

 

[ZedNinetySix]

Except Suzuka has had corners reprofiled/altered slightly in 2005.

This I am aware of, but other than tarmac compound change on certain parts, the whole track remaims the same layout. And it's still one of the most original tracks to survive through the decades while most other tracks are heavily altered from their former glory.

And because it retains damn near the exact same layout all along, it's great for comparing laptimes!

 

[Scuderia Paul]

I don't think they could add DTM cars due to licensing reasons, but maybe make some fictional Gr.2 race cars in their place like what's done with Gr.3.

Such licencing issues can be resolved. For all we know the 2019 DTM cars could be well on the way.

 

[o6oRmoT]

GT3 cars are essentially derived from road versions. And the GT1 was designed specifically for racing. Aerodynamics could not be better in Gt3, and as I looked at the statistics of laps on European routes, for the most part they are not even close to the lap time. And we must remember that many routes were changed for the sake of safety, gravel traps were replaced with asphalt, that is, cars began to go along them faster.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

If the sim is actually designed to simulate the car as it existed in 1995, it wouldn't struggle. The thing is the GTR in the game runs the same modern Michelin tires and has the same aero and chassis properties as the other Gr. 3 cars that are 20 years newer, so it needs massive BoP handicaps to avoid making a mockery of the class; with the result that it doesn't drive at all like the 1995 car would with massive straightline speed and clumsy (relative to a 2020 GTLM car) handling.

What makes you so sure they didn't use the data from the Michelin tyres that McLaren used in 1995? Do you 100% no this for sure or are you just making an assumption to pass off as fact? The only way you'd know for sure is if you work for PD, which you clearly don't.

GT3 cars are essentially derived from road versions. And the GT1 was designed specifically for racing. Aerodynamics could not be better in Gt3, and as I looked at the statistics of laps on European routes, for the most part they are not even close to the lap time. And we must remember that many routes were changed for the sake of safety, gravel traps were replaced with asphalt, that is, cars began to go along them faster.

The McLaren F1 GTR was literally a road car with 1 or 2 days work in the wind tunnel... and no, you did not work there, you do not own one, and you don't know anyone who worked there either.

Some of those older times should be taken with a pinch of salt, the bus stop was changed for 2004 and again for 2007, a few other changes around the track made it quicker too (more asphalt runoff, etc).

He just wants to win an argument on the internet really really badly, that's why he brought it up, even if it's at the expense of facts...

I think this thread should now be named
"McLaren F1 GTR Opinions, Ego's and Arguements Thread"

This.

All that's missing is that one guy to come out of nowhere and claim that we should all bin GT Sport in favour of iRacing

 

[o6oRmoT]

At the moment, I was talking about DBR9. F1 GTR is a separate, carbon-fiber chassis, essentially a closed analogue of F1 or Group C, for such machines you need a separate category, where they will be in their power

 

[AlanH49]

I fail to see how stating lap times for three cars (the F1 GTR, the DBR9 and last year's pole winning Aston) that competed on 3 different layouts of the same track is a relevant comparison, and I also fail to see what the ACO argument has to do with said topic.

The various track changes in the last decade or more have made little difference to the track length or overall times. We’re talking a handful of seconds either way.

The short-tail ‘95 F1 GTR was a very basic car. Even minor ‘96 updates saw it gain a chunck of time. The long-tail car gained another 5-10 seconds at Le Mans.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The various track changes in the last decade or more have made little difference to the track length or overall times. We’re talking a handful of seconds either way.

"A handful of seconds either way" over a 1 lap distance when you are using those times to be the criteria whether justify or not justify a car being placed in a class that it was not originally built or designed for the exact actual lap time under the exact same conditions for the vehicles being compared is critical to the legitimacy of the claim whether or not said cars should be combined into the same racing class.

Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges and the results of the comparison which in this case would be lap times are about as useful as tits on a boar hog period.

 

[Ddkklop]

Pole time Honda HSV-010 GT (H010) 1: 55.237 2010 (suzuka). Doesn't the old super gt seem much closer to gr.3 than we thought?

Wait a minute,1:55 only? Older car from 2007 has done 1:49. Must be either a mistake or 2010 cars became significantly slower for some reason.

 

[o6oRmoT]

Not so much a mistake as my haste

2008
2009
2010

But in 2008 and earlier, cars were faster

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Such licencing issues can be resolved. For all we know the 2019 DTM cars could be well on the way.

They can, but I doubt it's going to happen. If it does, then great; Gr.2 gets an update. However, that is very unlikely.

 

[Ddkklop]

Not so much a mistake as my haste

2008
2009
2010
View attachment 892179 View attachment 892180 View attachment 892181

But in 2008 and earlier, cars were faster

Strange. I wonder what caused such a slowdown in performance.

 

[o6oRmoT]

This only shows that old racing dogs do not have to be slower, because they were made 10-15-20 years ago, and it is possible to replace the coating on the entire track with a different grip gives such a result