ATAQ - a time trial experiment

[Meythia]

I just can't get GT's logic/maths on how it's computing the PP in my head!

Dont worry, no one does.
Unfortunatly, there will always be cars that have some weird PP glitches by very normal parts added or removed, or by sliding some combinations of power, aero, and weight together.
The screenshot of the NSX I posted on page 1 was "just adding the LSD", which usually ends up lowering the PP a bit, but definitly not in the realms of -25.

The only rule to prevent all this would be not using PP, but then it would create a mess of "tuned time attack" as there is no other way to compare the cars that in an ideal world should be somewhat equal.

Otherwise using restrictions and not allowing all tuning propably would help this case.
For example:
1. weight distribution may not be changed, the position for ballast has to stay at +/-0
2. aero may not be changed from the base value of the car, but parts may be added for the looks.
alternatively aero has to be set to the rightmost position (high aero) no matter how much this is, using a diffuser would increase the max values front and back
3. no NOS
4. ride height slides may not be used and must remain in the position that the tuning parts comes with by default, all other suspension tuning is free
and 5. any tuning part that is supposed to make the car go faster but decreases PP is not allowed, with the only exception being stiffening the body.

This is just a thought that didnt require as much time thinking about as writing it, vocally it would be "tongue is forming words faster than the brain" speed
---
in the mean time I managed the odd thing: I improved my optimal without improving my current best lap, still stuck at what I had on day 1

 

[Gorefast]

Dont worry, no one does.
Unfortunatly, there will always be cars that have some weird PP glitches by very normal parts added or removed, or by sliding some combinations of power, aero, and weight together.
The screenshot of the NSX I posted on page 1 was "just adding the LSD", which usually ends up lowering the PP a bit, but definitly not in the realms of -25.

The only rule to prevent all this would be not using PP, but then it would create a mess of "tuned time attack" as there is no other way to compare the cars that in an ideal world should be somewhat equal.

Otherwise using restrictions and not allowing all tuning propably would help this case.
For example:
1. weight distribution may not be changed, the position for ballast has to stay at +/-0
2. aero may not be changed from the base value of the car, but parts may be added for the looks.
alternatively aero has to be set to the rightmost position (high aero) no matter how much this is, using a diffuser would increase the max values front and back
3. no NOS
4. ride height slides may not be used and must remain in the position that the tuning parts comes with by default, all other suspension tuning is free
and 5. any tuning part that is supposed to make the car go faster but decreases PP is not allowed, with the only exception being stiffening the body.

This is just a thought that didnt require as much time thinking about as writing it, vocally it would be "tongue is forming words faster than the brain" speed
---
in the mean time I managed the odd thing: I improved my optimal without improving my current best lap, still stuck at what I had on day 1

I like the idea and that might lead to two classes: one open class without any restrictions and a sort of "Sport class" with defined options. Let's see what this first round brings... Keep pushing!

 

[Meythia]

As the one who threw the idea, of course I need to see how much it impacts a car myself.

Top: my rules
Bottom: old rules

I myself noticed "no pp reducing tuning allowed" this also throws out wide body (in most cases), so still room for debate 🤣
One only can see the loopholes when one is trying to not think about them.

And "any tuning part that is supposed to make the car go faster but decreases PP is not allowed" of course only compares to the default value, just for clarification 🙄

 

[ikon_313]

Just to make one thing clear: all my criticism is not against anybody of you guys, using the game the way it is designed!
I just can't get GT's logic/maths on how it's computing the PP in my head!


For example: I'm using a racing gearbox in the Yaris. Which adds 8 or 9 PP. But i set the gearing to a top speed of 200 Km/h. So it's pretty much the same like the short gearbox. But the PP doesn't change on the racing gearbox with the short gears.
Or take the torque figures: icon's Lancer has 143 Kg/m which equals 1402 Nm. My Yaris has 458 Nm. And they have the same PP!
And on this track the short gearbox makes it even worse!
This makes absolutly no sense to me.

But it's unnecessary to complain further about this, because we can't change anything about it.
So i stop moaning, i promise! 🤞😁


I'm just wondering what will happen if you start using 5th gear? Or even 4th??? With that amount of torque you could spin the earth backwards!

Before the update that "fixed" the Tomahawk low PP exploit, the gearbox settings were included in the calculation. The way it behaves now (no effect with custom max speed vs low PP with short gearbox) I would assume the stock settings of currently installed transmission is being used for calculation.

For example, the Impreza Type R can stay below 670 with the engine swap and fully customizable racing transmission plus all the other racing bits, just because the stock setting on the racing trans has such a low max speed.

The video mentioned here goes a little more in depth:
Post in thread 'Time Attack - PP600 - Tsukuba' https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/time-attack-pp600-tsukuba.431307/post-14429047

 

[ikon_313]

As the one who threw the idea, of course I need to see how much it impacts a car myself.
View attachment 1446013

Top: my rules
Bottom: old rules

I myself noticed "no pp reducing tuning allowed" this also throws out wide body (in most cases), so still room for debate 🤣
One only can see the loopholes when one is trying to not think about them.

And "any tuning part that is supposed to make the car go faster but decreases PP is not allowed" of course only compares to the default value, just for clarification 🙄

This would need quite a long list of different parts for individual cars, as some parts behave differently depending on the car. To keep it sinple, wouldn't a general approach with banning only the transmission exploit suffice? Some parts that reduce PP like improving Rigidity, Clutch or LSD can greatly affect the way a car behaves and are vital parts I wouldn't want to miss when building a car.

 

[Aiko_Mac]

I’m keen on joining in here.

 

[Gorefast]

I’m keen on joining in here.

Great! You are welcome. There is a lot of information hidden in this thread but you can simply ask. I tried to sum it up in the opening post and we are talking about changes for the next round.

 

[Meythia]

This would need quite a long list of different parts for individual cars

For the spirit of the game just trust every player to not cheat his online-friends on a race with no other reward than participation itself.
I dont see a reason to make a list of parts that any player will recognize on the fly as being not legal for the challenge.

 

[ikon_313]

For the spirit of the game just trust every player to not cheat his online-friends on a race with no other reward than participation itself.
I dont see a reason to make a list of parts that any player will recognize on the fly as being not legal for the challenge.

And yet you already made this elaborate list of all the "illegal" parts

I do trust that people posting in this thread are open about their findings about builds, settings and exploits in a collective effort to reach consensuality about any limitations and restrictions. There is no room or need for cheating here.

 

[Aiko_Mac]

What about fuel and tyre consumption?

 

[Gorefast]

I am using the time trial mode when visiting the track. There is no need to use these settings. They would make me slower and that's the least thing I could ask for... 😁

 

[bliprunner]

Tuning TT is definitely interesting...

Seeing as it's a test round here is my suggestion - more simplicity and a move away from PP. Example rules:

• Max HP
• Min weight
• Road Car on specified tyre with no nitrous

and that's it.

Expect there are flaws with this approach but hopefully less than PP system.

 

[Chris30]

Hi, I just spotted this thread. Can I join in when I get my ps5 back? I'll have to start getting PS gift cards so I can get the PS Plus subscription back, otherwise I can't join any lobbies or special TT's like this. I would love to race and hot lap with you guys, and please pray for my mom who has ovarian cancer, it's been tough for us the past 6-7 months. Seriously.

So, what do you have to do to participate? Just join in a lobby or enter a specific TT?

 

[MUC76]

Unfortunately, my driving skills are not good enough to compensate for my lack of tuning skills and vice versa. Nevertheless, I had to participate here so as not to offend my old friend Gorefast.
Unfortunately, my personality does not allow me to contribute anything serious.
I apologize for this.

I have used all my experience to be successful here. There are only a few aspects that are really essential.

For the choice of vehicle

• You need a car that can generate enough downforce and the downforce has to be adjustable precisely.
• The car must have been designed from the ground up as a racing car. Such a car never loses these genes.
• Really fast cars don't have a roof.

There are two key points for driving itself

• Smooth is fast! (Smoothbore is faster)
• Avoid any drifting! You'll only lose time.

Of course, the picture was taken from the replay. I am a Titan!

 

[911RSR]

Unfortunately, my driving skills are not good enough to compensate for my lack of tuning skills and vice versa. Nevertheless, I had to participate here so as not to offend my old friend Gorefast.
Unfortunately, my personality does not allow me to contribute anything serious.
I apologize for this.

I have used all my experience to be successful here. There are only a few aspects that are really essential.

For the choice of vehicle

• You need a car that can generate enough downforce and the downforce has to be adjustable precisely.
• The car must have been designed from the ground up as a racing car. Such a car never loses these genes.
• Really fast cars don't have a roof.

There are two key points for driving itself

• Smooth is fast!
• Avoid any drifting! You'll only lose time.

View attachment 1446286
View attachment 1446287
Of course, the picture was taken from the replay. I am a Titan!

😲 😲 😲

How's that even possible, i thought american cars only go fast in a straight line??? 🤣

Looks like fun though! 🤟

 

[Chris30]

Good grief, that was super fast. That shows that even small cars are powerful like a beast!!

 

[MUC76]

How's that even possible, i thought american cars only go fast in a straight line??? 🤣

Things have changed my friend! The track is in Japan. The tarrifs bring a lot of weight transfer and thus dynamics in the turns. 🤣

 

[tmtk]

So, what do you have to do to participate? Just join in a lobby or enter a specific TT?

Go to World Circuits, the chosen racetrack and there into the Time Trial mode.
No PS Plus is required to do that. Just read the opening post carefully about the rules and guidelines.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The Audi R8 destroyed everything with it's superior chassis, 4WD system and mid-mounted engine. Biggest disappointment was the Evo as it barely beat the Integra - even with a bit of a tune up. The Corvette and the 308 are very closely matched despite the difference in weight and power. I think the Corvette is the best car out of the box because it only needed a slight weight increase to meet the PP limit after the tyres were fitted. For a rear-drive car that produces 639 HP, it's quite impressive. All these times were done with fuel use and tyre wear set to x1. If you ask me, those settings give you a better indicator of each car's performance.

 

[Gorefast]

View attachment 1446488
The Audi R8 destroyed everything with it's superior chassis, 4WD system and mid-mounted engine. Biggest disappointment was the Evo as it barely beat the Integra - even with a bit of a tune up. The Corvette and the 308 are very closely matched despite the difference in weight and power. I think the Corvette is the best car out of the box because it only needed a slight weight increase to meet the PP limit after the tyres were fitted. For a rear-drive car that produces 639 HP, it's quite impressive. All these times were done with fuel use and tyre wear set to x1. If you ask me, those settings give you a better indicator of each car's performance.

I also had the R8 on my mind before everything escalated... Hopefully you are aware that the current round uses some black magic that you don't.

I know your speed and am happy to have you on board (same to you @bliprunner !). For the future there will be changes in the rules we will decide after this premier round. Please stay and watch the astonishing results with joy!

 

[911RSR]

View attachment 1446488
The Audi R8 destroyed everything with it's superior chassis, 4WD system and mid-mounted engine. Biggest disappointment was the Evo as it barely beat the Integra - even with a bit of a tune up. The Corvette and the 308 are very closely matched despite the difference in weight and power. I think the Corvette is the best car out of the box because it only needed a slight weight increase to meet the PP limit after the tyres were fitted. For a rear-drive car that produces 639 HP, it's quite impressive. All these times were done with fuel use and tyre wear set to x1. If you ask me, those settings give you a better indicator of each car's performance.

That R8 time is realy impressive! If i'd thought on the R8 in the 1st place, i'd immediately ditched it, because i thought it's too heavy to be that fast! Well done!

Doesn't feature the Corvette a rigid rear axle and leaf springs? Thats even more impressive!

 

[Chris30]

Go to World Circuits, the chosen racetrack and there into the Time Trial mode.
No PS Plus is required to do that. Just read the opening post carefully about the rules and guidelines.

Ok, thanks for clarifying...I'll start it as soon as I can. I'm saving up for a new ps5 this next couple months.

 

[rheinaoi]

I'd like join the fun!

My fastest run was predictably in the Mitsubishi Meta Land Rocket VIII - 51.7xx

@smoothbore12 was absolutely correct about leaving it in 6th gear. I tried silly stuff like entering corners in 4th gear for engine braking and rotation and exiting in 5th to beat the turbo lag, but nope. Until I can calm down and remember my braking points, I must drive this like an EV.

Other times
Jeep Willys MB - Hellcat Swap - 53.2xx
I. WANT. THAT. 52.9x, despite how annoying it was to drive.

Subaru WRX STI Type S '14 - 53.9xx
Fastest 'normal' car for me so far. It sounds AMAZING. That engine has enough bass to reset the rhythm of my heartbeats (my doctor is not happy about this)

Toyota Hiace Van DX '16 - BRZ V8 Swap - 54.1xx
It achieved this time at 588pp I think the Silva with this swap and the Miata with the Corvette swap will be faster, but I don't want to drive them.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo '91 - Demon-Challenger Swap - 54.6xx
The Dodge Stealth Mitsubishi GTO has become my project car. Not the fastest, but I adore it and have sunk far too much time and credits into it. Also, supercharged V8 noises.

Porsche Taycan Turbo S '19 - 55.5xx
So... Would this go into the 4WD class or the EV class 👀 Probably EV class because it's too slow for 4WD.

That I can say 55 seconds around Tsukuba is too slow for one of my road cars shows how out of control this has gotten. I LOVE IT.

And all of you need to slow down

 

[Gorefast]

I'd like join the fun!

My fastest run was predictably in the Mitsubishi Meta Land Rocket VIII - 51.7xx

@smoothbore12 was absolutely correct about leaving it in 6th gear. I tried silly stuff like entering corners in 4th gear for engine braking and rotation and exiting in 5th to beat the turbo lag, but nope. Until I can calm down and remember my braking points, I must drive this like an EV.

Other times
Jeep Willys MB - Hellcat Swap - 53.2xx
I. WANT. THAT. 52.9x, despite how annoying it was to drive.

Subaru WRX STI Type S '14 - 53.9xx
Fastest 'normal' car for me so far. It sounds AMAZING. That engine has enough bass to reset the rhythm of my heartbeats (my doctor is not happy about this)

Toyota Hiace Van DX '16 - BRZ V8 Swap - 54.1xx
It achieved this time at 588pp I think the Silva with this swap and the Miata with the Corvette swap will be faster, but I don't want to drive them.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo '91 - Demon-Challenger Swap - 54.6xx
The Dodge Stealth Mitsubishi GTO has become my project car. Not the fastest, but I adore it and have sunk far too much time and credits into it. Also, supercharged V8 noises.

Porsche Taycan Turbo S '19 - 55.5xx
So... Would this go into the 4WD class or the EV class 👀 Probably EV class because it's too slow for 4WD.

That I can say 55 seconds around Tsukuba is too slow for one of my road cars shows how out of control this has gotten. I LOVE IT.

And all of you need to slow down

Wow, that's a lot of commitment! Great to see your different approaches. If you finished this round it would be good to share your screen with all the lap times you want to make count. Right now there is AWD, RWD and FWD as a class. Sharing laps is optional but would be appreciated (#ataq670). Cheers!

 

[smoothbore12]

I'd like join the fun!

My fastest run was predictably in the Mitsubishi Meta Land Rocket VIII - 51.7xx

@smoothbore12 was absolutely correct about leaving it in 6th gear. I tried silly stuff like entering corners in 4th gear for engine braking and rotation and exiting in 5th to beat the turbo lag, but nope. Until I can calm down and remember my braking points, I must drive this like an EV.

Other times
Jeep Willys MB - Hellcat Swap - 53.2xx
I. WANT. THAT. 52.9x, despite how annoying it was to drive.

Subaru WRX STI Type S '14 - 53.9xx
Fastest 'normal' car for me so far. It sounds AMAZING. That engine has enough bass to reset the rhythm of my heartbeats (my doctor is not happy about this)

Toyota Hiace Van DX '16 - BRZ V8 Swap - 54.1xx
It achieved this time at 588pp I think the Silva with this swap and the Miata with the Corvette swap will be faster, but I don't want to drive them.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo '91 - Demon-Challenger Swap - 54.6xx
The Dodge Stealth Mitsubishi GTO has become my project car. Not the fastest, but I adore it and have sunk far too much time and credits into it. Also, supercharged V8 noises.

Porsche Taycan Turbo S '19 - 55.5xx
So... Would this go into the 4WD class or the EV class 👀 Probably EV class because it's too slow for 4WD.

That I can say 55 seconds around Tsukuba is too slow for one of my road cars shows how out of control this has gotten. I LOVE IT.

And all of you need to slow down

At " normal " cars you should try EVO group B road car with the low rpm turbo .
I bet you will hit 51''s with it since i was almost at 52 dead .

Ikon's rocket is another story with his glitched settings and driving , but i bet everything that the EVO group B road is faster then his WRX brother even if it isn't sound as good as the WRX.

 

[Chris30]

I'd like join the fun!

My fastest run was predictably in the Mitsubishi Meta Land Rocket VIII - 51.7xx

@smoothbore12 was absolutely correct about leaving it in 6th gear. I tried silly stuff like entering corners in 4th gear for engine braking and rotation and exiting in 5th to beat the turbo lag, but nope. Until I can calm down and remember my braking points, I must drive this like an EV.

Other times
Jeep Willys MB - Hellcat Swap - 53.2xx
I. WANT. THAT. 52.9x, despite how annoying it was to drive.

Subaru WRX STI Type S '14 - 53.9xx
Fastest 'normal' car for me so far. It sounds AMAZING. That engine has enough bass to reset the rhythm of my heartbeats (my doctor is not happy about this)

Toyota Hiace Van DX '16 - BRZ V8 Swap - 54.1xx
It achieved this time at 588pp I think the Silva with this swap and the Miata with the Corvette swap will be faster, but I don't want to drive them.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo '91 - Demon-Challenger Swap - 54.6xx
The Dodge Stealth Mitsubishi GTO has become my project car. Not the fastest, but I adore it and have sunk far too much time and credits into it. Also, supercharged V8 noises.

Porsche Taycan Turbo S '19 - 55.5xx
So... Would this go into the 4WD class or the EV class 👀 Probably EV class because it's too slow for 4WD.

That I can say 55 seconds around Tsukuba is too slow for one of my road cars shows how out of control this has gotten. I LOVE IT.

And all of you need to slow down

Tremendous effort made and excellent lap times. I'm hoping to join in by early December, but my mom said that we would be able to afford another ps5 this time. Good luck on this journey guys.