Originally posted by neon_duke
But it doesn't take any responsibility away from us at all. It is 100% our responsibility to understand it, or die from the lack of understanding our environment. That relieves us of nothing, which is perfectly fine, since I ask to be relieved of nothing. I don't see how it seems "comforting" to imagine that the Truth is indifferent to our presence. "Comforting" to me would imply the belief that a God created us, loves us, and will make everything all right in the end. But that particular belief just isn't terribly comforting to me and others who I am like.
Originally posted by milefile
That without a human being there to see truth, in every single instance, there is nothing anywhere to see anything. One has to imagine it's existence in any other case.
I don't know. Does that mean it can't exist?Originally posted by milefile
What created these nice systems? What created the organization that we can easily apprehend? What created truth?
I think we did, do, will.Originally posted by neon_duke
I don't know. Does that mean it can't exist?
So suns did not burn, planets did not orbit, seas did not condense, until we arrived to figure it out?Originally posted by milefile
I think we did, do, will.
Originally posted by neon_duke
So suns did not burn, planets did not orbit, seas did not condense, until we arrived to figure it out?
You will say truth doesn't have to mean anything. I will disagree because I say it serves purpose.
Originally posted by danoff
Yup, that is what I was going to say. Why must truth serve purpose? What purpose has it served those who have been executed for speaking it?
Understanding of truth serves purpose. Purpose is accomplished by understanding Truth. But Truth, in and of itself, does not need to mean anything. It is the understanding of it that has meaning, not the truth itself. The meaning is that Understanding allows humans to operate for their own Purposes, within the systematic environment that is Truth.Originally posted by milefile
You will say truth doesn't have to mean anything. I will disagree because I say it serves purpose.
Understanding of truth serves purpose. Purpose is accomplished by understanding Truth. But Truth, in and of itself, does not need to mean anything. It is the understanding of it that has meaning, not the truth itself. The meaning is that Understanding allows humans to operate for their own Purposes, within the systematic environment that is Truth.
You're 100% correct - Truth has no value without Understanding. I never said it did...
Because with understanding, Truth becomes not only valuable, but critical... but only to human purposes.Originally posted by milefile
But how can something with zero value matter at all?
Originally posted by neon_duke
Because with understanding, Truth becomes not only valuable, but critical... but only to human purposes.
NO! That simply doesn't follow, logically. It's more like this:Originally posted by milefile
So then:
1. Human understands.
2. Truth is born.
Bah. I'm not even going there
But the human dependence and expectation of all things to be organizable into conceptual schemata like that has deeper consequences beyond useful devices, not the least of which being that very dependence and expectation.
Pain is bad.Originally posted by danoff
I need a concrete example here. What real truth is there beyond raw scientific fact?
Sure it is. Being able to predict and anticipate is one of the primary uses of truth.The temperature at which water has frozen is true. The expectation that it will continue to freeze at that temperature is not real truth....