Aussie Tuners...Shiny new Garage, Shiny new Management

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Time for...

Cien Review!​

Let's just say that I had a hunch how this car would be to drive, and I sincerely hoped that my guts weren't right. Greycap will possibly test this car tomorrow as well, just to see if he agrees with me.

The downforce surprised me. I didn't remember that this could have racecar level downforce values. It did certainly help at higher speeds. In lower speeds, i noticed that the gearbox was pretty butchered. Car's performance did cover it quite well, but the second gear ratio hints that it's been made in order to drive this car with sports tyres as well. despite that, the annoying fact is that the gearbox is one of the biggest weaknesses of this car. Speedwise this car is pretty even with Grim R34per, and acceleration is similarly staggering. Ride was firm, no squatting or bowing under acceleration or deceleration, and it was very flat through few last corners, so big thumbs up this far. on final corner, my speed was usually around 146mph.👍

But then I arrived to corners that required hard braking. And that's when this car started to resemble my old blackbird in worst possible manner.:indiff: As soon as I lifted off throttle carefully, I felt how the car raised it's axe. I touched the brake pedal, and the car flexed its muscles. I pressed the brake pedal, and the axe hit me right between the eyes and it spun out in familiar manner, locking the rear tyres thanks to the quick and solid weight shifting effect, that lightened the rearend of the car enough. Same thing happened in the rest of the corners that required braking. Lift off throttle= spin. Using brakes = absolute death. Using throttle to stabilize the car = doesn 't turn enough to clear the corner. :crazy::scared:

Thus, it's really similar to Blackbird, and most likely for same reasons. I believe that the main culprit is -4 rear toe, and high rear rebound. I suggest trying out 0 toe in the rear, and something like 4 or 6 for rebound in the rear. I couldn't perform a proper, clean lap with it on GVS, thus, I don't have a laptime to give.:guilty::nervous:

It does have potential, but in order to perform 110% in racing situation, the car has to be controllable in every aspect of racing, not only in speed or acceleration. I suggest taking a look at the Blackbirds suspension and brakes, maybe even the downforce ( even though it can't have more than 30 front or rear..).

Positive things:
-speed
-acceleration
-grip under acceleration ( from 2nd gear upwards )

Negative things:
-Behaviour under braking from high speeds.
-gearbox ( can't be helped though.. well, maybe with a bit shorter 2nd gear, but that would sacrifice driveability on sports tyres, right?)
 
Thankyou very much for your in depth review. I'll explain the gearbox, as you noted, yes it's a retard and nothing can be helped there. The shift time takes an hour between gears and and if you drive auto like me it doesn't always shuffle gears properly under brakes. The extremely wide ratios therefore comes from 2 things, one as you guessed it was originally designed with sport tyres. The other is a what I thought was wise use of gears to not only help wheelpsin but help eliminate constant shifting. I made the gearbox like a 5sp with 6th merely as an overdrive style function, the torque band was wide enough so it doesn't hurt the car and now you aren't constantly shifting meaning you actually accelerate. This thing about the rear end snapping out is a mystery to me..........I have never experienced it and I drive this car alot of the time. Without the rear toe this car likes that evil word "understeer". Can try a softer rear damper setting and see how it goes but then I won't notice the difference as I don't get it in the first place?? There was some issue with the brake balance when the car was upgraded with the help of Rotary Junkie and I think the major issue lies there within, my advice is people will need to adjust the brake balance to suit there driving style with this car, but I'll see what I can do nonetheless. Thanks again 👍

Edit: I've just been driving the car again and I finally experience this rear snap out thing everyone keeps telling me about:dunce: I've tried lesser toe settings on the rear on it helps this problem while at the same time inducing fairly large understeer. So I have a question for you, if I take the rear toe to -2 and then switch the front/back spring rates (so it's stiffer at the back) around and make the rear dampers a little softer will that have the same effect as the rear toe at -4 without the snapping away from me? I also just achieved a new best lap time using current settings by taking one corner on a new better racing line that I had to teach myself in the WRS. I'll see if I can make it better still and try these proposed settings, any input you can give on the positive and negative effects of this change would be appreciated. Thanks 👍
 
turning the brake balance around helped a lot, as did 0 rear toe and LSD values 25/13/10. I'll test some more tomorrow, and let you know what changes I needed to do in order to achieve 1'40.9xx. BTW, have I mentioned that MR's seem to bear grudge towards me, especially the powerful ones like Spirra, NSX etc?:scared:
 
I just edited the above post if you see, I'm currently in 1.38.7xx lap time range and I want to get better, see proposed settings.

Edit: I have changed the settings (for now pending possible improvement) to:
Spring Rate: 10.5/12.0
Damper Bounce: 6/2
Damper rebound: 8/4
Toe: -2/-2

Everything else is as I had it and now, I can't seem to see any snap out when you lift off the throttle but when you are driving on the edge at high speed it still wants to snap out under brakes but with a well devised drivind strategy this is preventable. So anyway, I've now achieved a lap time of 1.37.941 and it can get better I know it can, so once again, any input will be appreciated, note the brake balance and diff are still the same for me, do you think that with the same brake balance and a stonger deceleration diff setting that might help the under brakes snap out scenario?
 
try reversing the brake balance, that did wonders for me, along with 0 rear toe. here is what I've done:

LSD: 25/13/10
BBC:6/4

SR: 10.5/13.5
Camber: 1.5/2.0
Toe -2/0
Stabilizer 3/3

I'll keep experimenting. i guess this car is harder to drive with G25.. :ouch:
 
Alright, I'll try the stabilizer, but as for the diff, I've figured it out myself as well (more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes). I keep the same settings as what I had before but if you have special preferences (driving style differences) you can change the brake settings to what you have or inreasing the deceleration diff setting to at the most 20. With the changes I made up above this car has just achieved a lap time of 1.37.673 I think it was (at least 1.37.6xx anyway) the car can take the final corner at GVS flat out and that is quite the test of the car's handling at high speed with that much power being put down. I suggest you try the rear spring rate of 12.0 if you haven't already and me and Rotary Junkie tried many camber settings but 2.5/2.0 felt like it gripped the best. Still, it's whatever floats your boat, just like I feel 0 rear toe is too much understeer, either way. Thanks for the help, my car has just improved over a second on its lap time thanks to the review you gave. I think I will post a full set-up of what has been changed so far on my car and just post as optional your brake balance and deceleration if that's OK with you and you think that's a good idea.

Update: The full setup of what is currently on my car is posted for all to see.

Update: Leo I tried your stabilzers and it seemed like the car became less responsive and I didn't like it much so they're still 7/7. Also if you didn't notice I finally topped Grim R34per's time. For a guy like me that's an achievement.
 
...Also if you didn't notice I finally topped Grim R34per's time...

But remember they are very different cars and the levels of downforce/drivetrain are hardly comparable; I'd even go to say that in terms of cornering one is vastly superior to the other because of the differences.

With the changes I made up above this car has just achieved a lap time of 1.37.673 I think it was (at least 1.37.6xx anyway) the car can take the final corner at GVS flat out and that is quite the test of the car's handling at high speed with that much power being put down.

I tested the car a few days back but didn't write a review incase it was going to influence Leo's promised review; but even without the changes the car managed to lap GVS in a time only slightly slower than the 1'37.6 so I'm looking forward to being able to give the new settings a run.

Pyrelli
 
Good on ya mate, I look forward to hearing about it, the new set helped me improve over a second. Psst, the CIEN still has over 100hp less than the R34per, not that it isn't a good car I'm sure that R34per, maybe I should try it, then maybe not seeing as we already got our own here at AT, no offence MFT.
 
I've witnessed the removal of LSD many times, I know what happens. It will probably want to drift all the time as well, but it becomes much faster.
 
Actually it doesn't want to drift. it just improves the front-end grip tenfold, improves overall grip etc. THAT'S why R34per is as fast as it is. oh, BTW.. I'm currently tinkering with a Shag-a-delic pussycat of a car.. ;) We'll see if it has too much power for it's layout on S3's. But, being mid-engined, I doubt that.
 
An XJ220? I'm thinking that after the classics challenge my entrants may find their way here, they're really good. Merry Christmas ya'll.
 
Well seeing as we don't actually develop joint cars together (yet) I may just be in store for some reviews. PS, we should do a joint car if you're interested dimplz, talk by PM.👍
 
200th post

its a double post but hey we made 200 posts...and another 1800 more till we become sucessful like MFT...but will get there


BTW i have finish a car that has been requested.

And what happened to the RUF I requested..? :odd:
finished and revealed in the new years specials

:lol:

I don't think it will ever be done.

its done RJ

:odd: I'm still waiting for the RUF.. but no pressure, guys.. keep your own pace, that's what we do in MFT..
so thats what i did
 
Then maybe another one or two after that? I would really like my C1 and C3 'vettes to make it here, when the time is upon us, just after classics start and I enter them I would love for all of you to enjoy them as much as I have.;)
 
Yes, yes you are @ gttuninggarage. Solid Lifters, to be exact.

That and you've spamwhored like crazy to get to the setups. Wouldn't surprise me if I see a few members' setups getting posted by you and passed off.
 
That and you've spamwhored like crazy to get to the setups. Wouldn't surprise me if I see a few members' setups getting posted by you and passed off.

now, now RJ no need to say that i would never do that i do my own setups. Look at all these...if this is going to continue pm me...not here...this is a tuning thread not a nag-a-ton
 
Judging by your actions, I would not doubt it and will be on alert.

I know that that site needs 10 posts to view the setups, and you've posted up to that.

All else will be handled via PM.
 
Well I don't know where all this is starting from or what it's about but new year's is nearly here and as will our cars be, stay tuned.
 
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