Baltimore School Shooting

[Joey D]

Fine, it not guns, then a bow and arrow. All you have to do is aim and release. Or if you prefer, an atlatl. There are numerous instruments that can deliver an object at high speed from a remote location.

 

[BobK]

Lovely. Two gun control threads going at once. Regardless of the original topic, they still turned into gun control threads.

 

[kk20]

Fine, it not guns, then a bow and arrow. All you have to do is aim and release. Or if you prefer, an atlatl. There are numerous instruments that can deliver an object at high speed from a remote location.

If someone rolls into school with a bow and arrow and noone spots it, therein lies the problem...

Any other instrument?

 

[Zenith]

Buying a car is easy, just give a guy from Craigslist some money and leave. You could get it from a dealer more easily and quicker than you could get a firearm.

All you have to do is point a car at a person and press the gas pedal.

Cars have negative effects on the human body. There are far more car fatalities per year than drug and firearm deaths combined. Besides, how is it your business to decide what I am allowed to have around my body? If I want drugs, guns, or cars around me, how is that your business?

As far as the cannabis argument...

Look how well banning marijuana worked. We have a huge illegal inflow into the country, a large illegal growing and selling black market that puts citizens in danger and gives power to gangs, and the drug itself is often easier to acquire than alcohol. That is why making an item like drugs or firearms illegal does not work.

 

[MarcoM]

All you have to do is point a car at a person and press the gas pedal.

I really did not know that that is the primary usage of a car. 👍 I thought it was meant for commuting to work, going out with the family.

Boy was I wrong all the time. A car is meant for killing people.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Crossbow would be a good stealth weapon, accurate and deadly, even better with poison laced bolts. Why guns when you can kill without any noise or attracting attention ? Oh, give a drink spiked with deadly chemicals or poison, no ?

 

[Zenith]

I really did not know that that is the primary usage of a car. 👍 I thought it was meant for commuting to work, going out with the family.

Boy was I wrong all the time. A car is meant for killing people.

I never said it was. What I did say is that a car can kill people, lots of people, very easily and with minimal effort required by the driver.

Refer to the Empire State Building Thread for my stance on that, as well as Famine's, Toronado's, Exocet's, Joey D's, a6m5's, Dan_'s, Azuremen's, and others. I don't plan to go through the motions again on this thread. Not a single person has been able to logically defend the stance you're taking in the GTP Opinions Forum. There tends to be a reason for that.

 

[kk20]

Buying a car is easy, just give a guy from Craigslist some money and leave. You could get it from a dealer more easily and quicker than you could get a firearm.

All you have to do is point a car at a person and press the gas pedal.

Cars have negative effects on the human body. There are far more car fatalities per year than drug and firearm deaths combined. Besides, how is it your business to decide what I am allowed to have around my body? If I want drugs, guns, or cars around me, how is that your business?

As far as the cannabis argument...

Look how well banning marijuana worked. We have a huge illegal inflow into the country, a large illegal growing and selling black market that puts citizens in danger and gives power to gangs, and the drug itself is often easier to acquire than alcohol. That is why making an item like drugs or firearms illegal does not work.

1. Now your just being absurd, sure car fatalaties are higher than guns and drugs. But how far would humans be without automobiles? What are the benefits to people having guns with them? Cant really see anything. Negatives outweigh positives significantly.

2. The purpose of guns are to injure by penetration. By having this on your body you are intending to use this. Scenario: the clown you hired for you kids birthday party has a gun on him. You spot it, what do you do? Surely he has the right to have it on him? Why wouldnt someone have a revolver in their back pocket while going to a kids party?

3. Theres an interesting thread about how canabis affects IQ. If legalised, pretty much every kid would smoke it. The working age of people with less IQ than other countries. Will do wonders for the countries economy.

Crossbow would be a good stealth weapon, accurate and deadly, even better with poison laced bolts. Why guns when you can kill without any noise or attracting attention ? Oh, give a drink spiked with deadly chemicals or poison, no ?

Well, now you're telling someone to drink something. Would you drink something a stranger hands you? Especially if you've been bullying him/her?

Also where are you getting said chemicals from?

I really did not know that that is the primary usage of a car. 👍 I thought it was meant for commuting to work, going out with the family.

Boy was I wrong all the time. A car is meant for killing people.

👍

 

[MarcoM]

I never said it was. What I did say is that a car can kill people, lots of people, very easily and with minimal effort required by the driver.

Refer to the Empire State Building Thread for my stance on that, as well as Famine's, Toronado's, Exocet's, Joey D's, a6m5's, Dan_'s, Azuremen's, and others. I don't plan to go through the motions again on this thread. Not a single person has been able to logically defend your stance in the GTP Opinions Forum. There tends to be a reason for that.

I know all about those opinions. It's just that I like to emphasize on the intended use of "objects". But you're right, going over that agains is not the thing I want either.

 

[Joey D]

If someone rolls into school with a bow and arrow and noone spots it, therein lies the problem...

Any other instrument?

They don't have to spot it, if you're planning on killing fellow students you probably are just going to walk in the front door and let arrows fly. Same with any other projectile weapon. In most killings the murderer typically doesn't have stealth on there mind anyway.

There are also numerous other ways in which to harm fellow students if the killer desires. Making a bomb doesn't require much work and uses household chemicals to boot. Heck, even legal fireworks can do quite a bit of harm.

If a student wants to kill their fellow classmates there are numerous things they can use.

A better way to combat school shootings would be to actually address bullying problems and don't just assume it'll work itself out. I'm not saying baby the students but there is a line where action needs to be taken in order to help prevent someone from going off the deep end. Mental healthcare is another thing to look at too. Oh and parenting too.

=====

And I believe if you purposely hit someone with your car it is considered an assault with a deadly weapon. So yes, cars can be used in the same way guns are used.

 

[Danoff]

Ever thought he took daddy's gun?

Yes, I assumed it. It is still not legal for him to do so. Nor is it legal for him to transport it to school, nor is it legal for him to shoot his classmates. None of that made any difference to him. Laws are not going to help prevent this kid from doing what he did, he broke many and assumed he would die as a result. I find it naive to think that one more law would have done the trick.

Here's what I don't see in this thread - any discussion of the hero teacher that stopped this kid from killing anyone. Here was a kid who was preparing to slaughter his classmates columbine style and one teacher decided it wasn't happening on his watch. At great risk to himself he grabbed the kid and saved how many lives? 5? 10? 15? Who knows. It's exactly what I love about people though.

It didn't take a day, not one day before we saw this kind of behavior on 9/11. United 93 was taken down by people very much like that teacher (except braver because they had a good idea that they were not going to survive). I absolutely LOVE to see people fight back against these kinds of terrorists (yes, I include this kid and the columbine kid and the Aurora shooter as terrorists because I think it is their primary goal). I don't know who that teacher is but I want to shake his hand.

 

[kk20]

They don't have to spot it, if you're planning on killing fellow students you probably are just going to walk in the front door and let arrows fly. Same with any other projectile weapon. In most killings the murderer typically doesn't have stealth on there mind anyway.

There are also numerous other ways in which to harm fellow students if the killer desires. Making a bomb doesn't require much work and uses household chemicals to boot. Heck, even legal fireworks can do quite a bit of harm.

If a student wants to kill their fellow classmates there are numerous things they can use.

A better way to combat school shootings would be to actually address bullying problems and don't just assume it'll work itself out. I'm not saying baby the students but there is a line where action needs to be taken in order to help prevent someone from going off the deep end. Mental healthcare is another thing to look at too. Oh and parenting too.

Guns are banned in many countries worldwide. How many deaths have there been regarding what you've just typed above?

 

[MarcoM]

A better way to combat school shootings would be to actually address bullying problems and don't just assume it'll work itself out. I'm not saying baby the students but there is a line where action needs to be taken in order to help prevent someone from going off the deep end. Mental healthcare is another thing to look at too. Oh and parenting too.

I do not always agree with you, but on this one I do. Parenting and mental healthcare could decrease the number of lethal arguments.

And I believe if you purposely hit someone with your car it is considered an assault with a deadly weapon. So yes, cars can be used in the same way guns are used.

That is indeed manslaughter. But than you are using the car not for its intended purpose.

 

[Zenith]

Guns are banned in many countries worldwide. How many deaths have there been regarding what you've just typed above?

How many violent crimes and murders have there been in places where guns have been banned?

That is indeed manslaughter. But than you are using the car not for its intended usage.

Assault and manslaughter are two different things. Both can be achieved with a car. Once again, the whole "intended usage" song and dance has been played to death several times, most recently in the Empire State Building Shooting Thread. I suggest everyone, especially kk20, go read it.

 

[Exorcet]

The purpose of guns are to injure by penetration. By having this on your body you are intending to use this.

Wrong, the purpose is to fire a bullet. No gun I've ever carried has been carried with the intent to injure.

I wouldn't want a clown carrying a gun around kids for the same reason I wouldn't want him carrying his car keys around kids.

That is indeed manslaughter. But than you are using the car not for its intended purpose.

Just like when a gun is used for murder. It's not like the intended purpose makes a difference.

 

[kk20]

How many violent crimes and murders have there been in places where guns have been banned?

Well. Less than USA. There are a number of ways to murder using various methods, tools etc.

But if you have the choice to rid of one of the biggest tools/methods. Why not do it?

 

[Danoff]

But than you are using the car not for its intended purpose.

Murder is not the intended purpose of guns. I own several and I do not intend to murder anyone.

 

[Zenith]

Well. Less than USA. There are a number of ways to murder using various methods, tools etc.

Go look up the UK's violent crime rate (guns are banned), now look up the USA's (especially where concealed carry permits are given out). You might find the answers surprising.

But if you have the choice to rid of one of the biggest tools/methods. Why not do it?

Mhmm. Now how many of those violent crimes involved guns. Why not look at Chicago for instance? Guns are banned there and the murder rate is more than double of Mexico City's.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Making an item illegal does not get rid of the item. Further, taking away a tool that could be used for murder does not stop a murder from happening.

Again, go read the Empire State Shooting thread. It will fill you in on a lot we've already covered.

 

[kk20]

Wrong, the purpose is to fire a bullet. No gun I've ever carried has been carried with the intent to injure.

I wouldn't want a clown carrying a gun around kids for the same reason I wouldn't want him carrying his car keys around kids.

Just like when a gun is used for murder. It's not like the intended purpose makes a difference.

Bullets are shaped to penetrate. What do you want to be penetrating?

Whats wrong with having car keys around kids? Why do you decide what anyone is allowed or not allowed on them?

 

[Joey D]

Guns are banned in many countries worldwide. How many deaths have there been regarding what you've just typed above?

Does it matter? You asked for instruments that can kill besides a gun which do not require you to be near your target. And I'd guess bombs have killed quite a few people worldwide. I mean one suicide bomber can take out 40 people in a instant.

That is indeed manslaughter. But than you are using the car not for its intended usage.

A gun's intended use is not to kill a human being either. Killing a person with it is using it for a different reason than it was designed for. Think about how many rounds are fired per year worldwide. I'd bet less than 10% actually connect with something living ( more if you count flora).

Why not look at Chicago for instance?

314 soldiers died in Iraq, 509 in Chicago - Kanye West.

* and this is meant as an amusing side comment to help lighten the mood a bit.

 

[Danoff]

But if you have the choice to rid of one of the biggest tools/methods. Why not do it?

...because you'd be getting rid of one of the biggest tools/methods for preventing murder?? Just a thought.

 

[Exorcet]

Bullets are shaped to penetrate. What do you want to be penetrating?

Do you even want to be penetrating? That's up to the user.

Whats wrong with having car keys around kids? Why do you decide what anyone is allowed or not allowed on them?

Kids might want to use those keys to get in or operate a car unsafely. Same as knives, electrical outlets, blenders, ovens, computers, and really anything.

If you're going to have something around kids, do it safe. Perhaps a birthday party or whatever at a supervised gun range (I've attended something like this) is a more appropriate place for guns and kids.

I can deice what's allowed or not because I'd assume I was allowing the person to be on my property in the first place if I hired the clown.

 

[kk20]

Mhmm. Now how many of those violent crimes involved guns. Why not look at Chicago for instance? Guns are banned there and the murder rate is more than double of Mexico City's.

Making an item illegal does not get rid of the item. Further, taking away a tool that could be used for murder does not stop a murder from happening.

Again, go read the Empire State Shooting thread. It will fill you in on a lot we've already covered.

Have you taken into account other factors? Such as population, economy, housing conditions?

Also, making a tool illegal will increase its lack of accessibilty. Having police search for illegal gun dens like they do for drug dens will also decrease figures?

...because you'd be getting rid of one of the biggest tools/methods for preventing murder?? Just a thought.

Nothing wrong with police having guns. Never said that anywhere...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well, now you're telling someone to drink something. Would you drink something a stranger hands you? Especially if you've been bullying him/her?

Also where are you getting said chemicals from?

Well, you don't actually need to give it to the person per se, there are many ways to get the poisoned water into someone's body and there are many household chemicals that would be fatal if taken. Rat poison for instance, mix it with soft drink that the target drinks, it's all in the time and place and how you made it happen.
When there's an intent and will, there's way. Just like when I was a kid, pulling pranks on friends with cunning plans or traps

If you really pissed with someone, just pull a prank on him/her, there's no need to kill, but then again not everyone think the same way.

 

[Zenith]

Have you taken into account other factors? Such as population, economy, housing conditions?

Hmmm.. So it's almost as if you're saying that it isn't the guns aren't the things that are causing the violent crime. Could it perhaps be things like the people?

Also, making a tool illegal will increase its lack of accessibilty. Having police search for illegal gun dens like they do for drug dens will also decrease figures?

Just like it's so difficult to buy marijuana?

 

[kk20]

Well, you don't actually need to give it to the person per se, there are many ways to get the poisoned water into someone's body and there are many household chemicals that would be fatal if taken. Rat poison for instance, mix it with soft drink that the target drinks, it's all in the time and place and how you made it happen.
When there's an intent and will, there's way. Just like when I was a kid, pulling pranks on friends with cunning plans or traps

Oh yeah, because this happens 10,000 times a year in uk.

 

[Danoff]

Nothing wrong with police having guns. Never said that anywhere...

...wasn't talking about police having guns.

 

[kk20]

Hmmm.. So it's almost as if you're saying that it isn't the guns aren't the things that are causing the violent crime. Could it perhaps be things like the people?

Just like it's so difficult to buy marijuana?

Well I dunno anywhere else but theres a weed hotspot about 5 mins from where I live. Everyone knows this and so does police. If a person is just standing around in a rundown area surely thats suspicious? Many of my friends have been stopped there randomly by police. Its about tackling and following through after changing laws.

...wasn't talking about police having guns.

So people carry guns to prevent gun crime?

So firefighters carry lighters to...take out fires?

Their own guns can be used on them...

 

[Danoff]

Well I dunno anywhere else but theres a weed hotspot about 5 mins from where I live. Everyone knows this and so does police. If a person is just standing around in a rundown area surely thats suspicious? Many of my friends have been stopped there randomly by police. Its about tackling and following through after changing laws.

Yes... that's the reason that drug laws don't work in the US... because of the lack of insane amount of money, manpower, time, and even engineering poured into enforcing those laws.

So people carry guns to prevent gun crime?

Yes. In fact you're talking to one such person.

 

[kk20]

Yes. In fact you're talking to one such person.

Well I salute your bravery mate. But have you thought that your own gun can be used on you? In uk it was quite a significant percentage of people that get stabbed by their own knives...which is why in schools we have police and various bodies give lessons regarding such facts....