Baltimore School Shooting

[Zenith]

So people carry guns to prevent gun crime?

So firefighters carry lighters to...take out fires?

Their own guns can be used on them...

 

[Danoff]

Well I salute your bravery mate. But have you thought that your own gun can be used on you? In uk it was quite a significant percentage of people that get stabbed by their own knives...

Yes I have thought about that. But it is far easier to use a person's knife against than than their gun - because it's far more difficult to use a knife against an attacker than a gun. Attackers are generally physically more capable than the people they are attacking, and while this has little effect on a gun carrier, a knife carrier loses significant advantage. That's because a knife isn't as much of a force equalizer as a gun.

 

[kk20]

Yes I have thought about that. But it is far easier to use a person's knife against than than their gun - because it's far more difficult to use a knife against an attacker than a gun. Attackers are generally physically more capable than the people they are attacking, and while this has little effect on a gun carrier, a knife carrier loses significant advantage. That's because a knife isn't as much of a force equalizer as a gun.

Saaay whaat? Attackers are more physically capable? Where did you get that assumption from?

 

[Danoff]

Saaay whaat? Attackers are more physically capable? Where did you get that assumption from?

Most crime (in the US and UK) is committed by the most physically capable people on the planet - young men. Taking it a bit further, if victimless crimes (like drugs, and prostitution - which aren't really crimes at all) were suddenly taken off the books, you would release over 90% of the female prison population.

 

[Joey D]

Well I salute your bravery mate. But have you thought that your own gun can be used on you? In uk it was quite a significant percentage of people that get stabbed by their own knives...which is why in schools we have police and various bodies give lessons regarding such facts....

Anything can be used against you. Say you went to the store to buy a toaster and while walking back to your car with it someone jumps you, takes your toaster, and then bashes you over the head with it.

Replace toaster with anything you see fit.

 

[Exorcet]

But have you thought that your own gun can be used on you?

Or that being unarmed leaves someone more vulnerable.

Guns that can ID their owners would mitigate issues with stolen guns. This has been done by sensing pressure on the grip and with bracelets that will only allow the gun to fire when they are close enough to them.

 

[MarcoM]

Assault and manslaughter are two different things.

They are, but that's not the point I am making. Let's wrap assault and manslaughter together into extreme violence.

I wouldn't want a clown carrying a gun around kids for the same reason I wouldn't want him carrying his car keys around kids.


Just like when a gun is used for murder. It's not like the intended purpose makes a difference.

Clown A walks into your house to prepare the party and drops his gun on the table.
Clown B walks into your house to prepare the parte and drops his cars keys on the table.

Which clown would get the assignment?

Yes. In fact you're talking to one such person.

Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Over here we call the police when there is a threathening situation.
Thought: perhaps the legal possession of guns makes people in the US react differently.
This is not meant sarcastically.

Anything can be used against you. Say you went to the store to buy a toaster and while walking back to your car with it someone jumps you, takes your toaster, and then bashes you over the head with it.

Replace toaster with anything you see fit.

OK, so your point is that the offender is wrong, not the product. I understand that. But if you are bashed with a toaster and you shoot the offender with a gun, then you will have a serious problem. At least over here in the Netherlands, apart from the fact that gun possesion is illegal. When you as a defender use extreme countermeasures, it will not be taken lightly.

Again, perhaps that's a cultural difference.

 

[Danoff]

Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Over here we call the police when there is a threathening situation.
Thought: perhaps the legal possession of guns makes people in the US react differently.
This is not meant sarcastically.

We call the police here too, but some of us here don't want that to be our only line of defense. Especially those of us who have gotten busy signals when dialing the police, or who realize that it's going to be 5 minutes at a minimum before the cops show up - and that can be a lifetime.

Thinking again about the Baltimore school shooting I'm still just stunned and grateful that it was stopped almost before it got started. That situation could have been so much worse, as we are all familiar with what can happen when an armed psycho lets loose on an unarmed, captive group.

 

[Tornado]

Well, now you're telling someone to drink something. Would you drink something a stranger hands you? Especially if you've been bullying him/her?

Also where are you getting said chemicals from?

I hope you aren't naive enough to think that looking under your bathroom or kitchen sink and a 30 second Google search wouldn't be enough to find something that would be quite apt at killing someone. In fact, a more exhaustive Google search and a better stock of things under your sink could very well net you something that could be tasked with killing several someones at once.

 

[MarcoM]

We call the police here too, but some of us here don't want that to be our only line of defense. Especially those of us who have gotten busy signals when dialing the police, or who realize that it's going to be 5 minutes at a minimum before the cops show up - and that can be a lifetime.

I see. It sure can seem a life time. I had to call the cops one time. And it seemed indeed a lifetime before they showed up. Luckily the offender (junky) did not have enough time or strength to bash into my appartments door.

Thinking again about the Baltimore school shooting I'm still just stunned and grateful that it was stopped almost before it got started. That situation could have been so much worse, as we are all familiar with what can happen when an armed psycho lets loose on an unarmed, captive group.

That is just awesome that it did not escalate. +100 for the preventers

 

[Exorcet]

Clown A walks into your house to prepare the party and drops his gun on the table.
Clown B walks into your house to prepare the parte and drops his cars keys on the table.

Which clown would get the assignment?

It would be odd for a clown to be carrying a weapon without informing me (and I'm assuming that this is part of the situation above) so I'd be hesitant to work with A. The same would happen if I saw lighter fluid for his juggling fire act if he didn't inform me that he'd be performing it. The car keys I could understand him having, but if he's going to lose them in a house full of kids, I don't want him at the party.

If I was informed of the gun's presence and allowed him to bring it, it's no different from the car keys, including "why are you letting that fall from your pocket when you're working with kids?".

But I'd probably take the party to a gun range if there were going to be guns involved, kids or not.

 

[Joel]

Or that being unarmed leaves someone more vulnerable.

Guns that can ID their owners would mitigate issues with stolen guns. This has been done by sensing pressure on the grip and with bracelets that will only allow the gun to fire when they are close enough to them.

ID tagged soldiers, carrying ID tagged weapons, using ID tagged gear.

 

[MarcoM]

If I was informed of the gun's presence and allowed him to bring it, it's no different from the car keys, including "why are you letting that fall from your pocket when you're working with kids?".

But I'd probably take the party to a gun range if there were going to be guns involved, kids or not.

I am quite shocked really.

Learning as I go.

 

[Exorcet]

I am quite shocked really.

Learning as I go.

What's shocking about knowing what you're getting into when you invite a stranger to your house?

 

[kk20]

I am quite shocked really.

Learning as I go.

Lmao

 

[ExigeEvan]

So firefighters carry lighters to...take out fires?

A well known method to fight wild fires.

You just can't make this stuff up.

 

[sumbrownkid]

ID tagged soldiers, carrying ID tagged weapons, using ID tagged gear.

Crime...Has changed...

This has been a violent 2012 by the way. In terms of " mass media newsworthy" violent I mean.

 

[Joey D]

Crime...Has changed...

This has been a violent 2012 by the way. In terms of " mass media newsworthy" violent I mean.

It's really no more violent than any other year, the news just is more focused on it now so it seems like it's more. Kids get shot in front of Detroit public schools all the time and it never makes the news.

 

[sumbrownkid]

It's really no more violent than any other year, the news just is more focused on it now so it seems like it's more. Kids get shot in front of Detroit public schools all the time and it never makes the news.

I've been to Detroit, and sir, that place is a third world country.

 

[Zenith]

I am quite shocked really.

Learning as I go.

You mean to imply that a person who carries a gun with them is dangerous?

 

[Crispy]

3. Theres an interesting thread about how canabis affects IQ. If legalised, pretty much every kid would smoke it. The working age of people with less IQ than other countries. Will do wonders for the countries economy.

Sorry for going off-topic, but this is just absurd.

Tell me, if canabis was legalized right now, would you go out and smoke it? Same with most people. That's like saying if murder was legalized, everyone would kill each other.

 

[kk20]

Sorry for going off-topic, but this is just absurd.

Tell me, if canabis was legalized right now, would you go out and smoke it? Same with most people. That's like saying if murder was legalized, everyone would kill each other.

Well if it was legalized then there would be no need for the education in schools saying its bad. Also if my friend came up to me and explained how weed makes you feel then i would do it. Why wouldnt i? I can get high and there'd be no effects to it. Atleast thats what I'd think because there would be no education on it.

 

[Exorcet]

Well if it was legalized then there would be no need for the education in schools saying its bad. Also if my friend came up to me and explained how weed makes you feel then i would do it. Why wouldnt i? I can get high and there'd be no effects to it. Atleast thats what I'd think because there would be no education on it.

Yeah all my schools told me to drink alcohol 24/7. And to abuse prescription drugs.

 

[kk20]

Wow 84 comments in less than a day. Mass debate. Im sorry, someone had to say it.

 

[MarcoM]

You mean to imply that a person who carries a gun with them is dangerous?

If it isn't a police officer (or similar) then yes I think that is dangerous.

Being a Dutch citizen, I am not used to people carring guns. Only criminals carry them around illegally. So if someone walked into my house with a gun that would mean trouble.

Over here when you would carry a gun because of self defense it would mean that you expect to have problems. That is different than in the US where guns are legal. I think that when I would have been raised in the US I would be more used to guns.

When I did a trip through the west coast of the US I noticed hardly anyone on normal bikes or even bikes at all (cycling that is). Over here cycles are very common everywhere.

On that note: When I got the rental car in LA I accidently spinned the wheels of the car to get over the wide street quickly. We were pulled over by a big (over here police has a Ford Focus) policecar. The policemen had a big gun between them and big guns attached to their belt. It sure made an impression.

 

[Scaff]

Well if it was legalized then there would be no need for the education in schools saying its bad.

First off simply saying something is 'bad' isn't education, presenting all the facts to an individual in an informed way and then discussing the pro's and con's would be education. 'Drugs are bad' is simply propaganda and will have no real affect in reducing drug use.

Its also totally wrong to say that if a substance is legalised then education on it stops, that is (simply put) a strawman argument, as education on both alcohol and cigarettes is part of the school curriculum in UK and both are legal.

Also if my friend came up to me and explained how weed makes you feel then i would do it.

Your own personal feelings on wanting to try something can't then be expanded to the population as a whole, however wanting to try something simply because you 'not yet allowed' is not exactly the preserve of illegal substances. A good number of underage kids want to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes.

Why wouldnt i? I can get high and there'd be no effects to it.

Which kind of indicates a level of emotional immaturity that would suggest that the use of any substance that has a physical and mental affect would be unwise for you (which is still not a reason to ban it from the public at large).

I can have as many beers as I want sat at home, however as soon as I get into my car while under the influence I'm breaking the law, it would also be rather unwise to show up for work hammered out of my brain.

Any substance of this kind has a time and place to be used and its more than possible to police.

Atleast thats what I'd think because there would be no education on it.

Once again a strawman argument, simply because something is legal doesn't mean that education disappears, your claim has absolutely no basis in reality at all.

 

[BobK]

Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Over here we call the police when there is a threathening situation.

So what would have happened if the teacher in question here had called the police instead of taking direct action and assaulting the kid with the gun? Massacre, ya think? But it's better to call the cops and let the slaughter commence until the police arrive then it is to try to stop the assailant by whatever means are necessary, including firearms if available?

Over here when you would carry a gun because of self defense it would mean that you expect to have problems.

That may be true over there, but here it's more like having insurance. You don't have insurance because you expect to need it, you have it because of the possibility that it may be needed. Same with guns.

 

[MarcoM]

So what would have happened if the teacher in question here had called the police instead of taking direct action and assaulting the kid with the gun? Massacre, ya think? But it's better to call the cops and let the slaughter commence until the police arrive then it is to try to stop the assailant by whatever means are necessary, including firearms if available?

No, of course I think the teacher did very good. Especially without having a gun.

 

[Danoff]

Once again, especially in light of recent news, the teacher who tackled this kid and saved who knows how many lives is a hero. I hope he got recognized in Baltimore, because I'm still thinking about what he accomplished.