Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

[todally_lit]

Well guys, I did have both cars in my collection, but I must say I've never really driven them. This is one of the great things about COTW, it gives us a substantial incentive (in the way of bragging rights) to drive cars we normally would not drive.

I had a chance just now to drive both of these stallions on the Montegi twin ring. What I do is take a couple laps to familiarize myself with the car, then do a few hot laps to establish the "best lap time" which corresponds to the best lap followed by a couple laps where it looks *very* difficult to improve the the best lap. Here are the results:

250 GTO 2:13.525 (474 pp)
250 GT Passo Corto 2:15.621 (454 pp)

for comparison:
Toyota 86 GT '12 2:17.359

Both of these cars had major inside wheel spin, though the GTO's wheel spin was much more pronounced than that of the GT Passo Corto. I think managing the inside wheelspin will be the key to races on Tues and Sat!

 

[VXR]

I very much doubt I'll be writing up a review for this one, given the outlays, but I'm going to try and get the GT at least.

 

[LM7325]

I have been away from GT6 for a bit. I did however log quite a bit of wheel time with the GTO way back when the 500pp QM at GV was a thing.

The car was a mess with stock settings, why PD locked camber and toe on this beauty will forever be a mystery. Once sorted the car can be quite impressive for 500pp class race cars, I think the only car touching this thing at Monza at 500pp would be the Stratos Rally '77. With the tuning nerfed the way it is makes that impressive.
The other one I have very little seat time with, so no opinion left or right with it.

 

[Cowboy]

Went out and bought the '62 GTO today. Wasn't expecting it to be on CS tires

TOYOTA 86 GT 15th Anniversary Edition '12: 0:55.126
Acura NSX Coupe '97: 0:55.134
Ford RS200 '84: 0:55.318
Chevrolet Corvette StingRay Racer Concept '59: 0:55.458
Chevrolet Nova SS '70: 0:55.509
Chevrolet Camaro Z28 '69: 0:55.515
Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71: 0:55.578
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69: 0:55.669
Audi TTS Coupe '09: 0:55.696
Caterham Seven Fireblade '02: 0:55.770
Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71: 0:56.103
Ferrari 250 GTO CN.3729GT '62: 0:56.116
Ford Focus RS '02: 0:56.245
Acura NSX '04: 0:56.256
Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70: 0:56.258
Chevrolet Corvette Stringray Convertible (C3) '69: 0:56.280
Fisher Karma EcoSport '12: 0:56.455
Chevrolet Camaro SS '69: 0:56.529
Chevrolet Silverado SST '02: 0:56.683
Ford Focus ST 15th Anniversary Edition '13: 0:56.729
BMW 135i Coupé '07: 0:56.804
Audi TT Coupe 3.2 quattro '07: 0:56.835
Lancia STRATOS 15th Anniversary Edition '73: 0:56.888
Audi S4 '98: 0:56.933
Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta passo corto CN.2521 '61: 0:56.968
BMW M Coupe '98: 0:57.141
Alpine A110 1600S 15th Anniversary Edition '72: 0:57.197
Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71: 0:57.474
Acura NSX '91: 0:57.634
Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88: 0:57.942

 

[Nismonath5]

Pictures from Tuesday night's action!

Again, huge apologies to anyone I hit during the races! I feel real bad, and will be practising tons before Saturday!

 

[Racer283]

Sorry I wasn't able to join you guys tonight as I got home about 10pm MST, I didn't feel like jumping on from a long day. Most likely I won't be able to attend Saturday's races because of a busy week ahead with my brother's wedding and another wedding the next day but I'll be able to race next week though.

I did happen to buy the '61 Ferrari 250 GT and run it around Monaco for the TT. As for this car, I found out that if you jump on the throttle early you will have quite a bit of wheel spin. Even with the wheel spin it was fairly easy car to control and handled well. As of right now, I can't call it a beater or a sleeper with what little testing I've done with the car.

 

[LM7325]

I should have noted the car does fine on CS, odd to have a race car come on those.

RH tires may explain why it felt so wrong, that and ballast for more prancing horses. Even still, depending on the track I think GTO could make Opera S2000 and TS030 drivers straight up rage quit.

So for me GTO is a sleeper since PD makes it play with race cars

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Well, as it turns out, I won't be able to make advantage of my large (virtual) budget for this Saturday. I have the money to buy the road-going 250, but as it turns out, I will be doing something else. What's happening, you ask? Well, a teacher who works on a theater course which I attended in the past has invited me and some of my friends who also have attended/attend the course to a dinner at her house. Meaning that while I may not have the same elegant enviroment as say, Pebble Beach, I will be off eating food that I did not cook. Therefore, it'll be time well-spent...

But yes, long story short, I won't be racing with you chaps this Saturday. I wanted to, but y'know... it's hard to decline this sort of invitation.

 

[Nismonath5]

If Brad's busy again and can't host the racing tonight, I can.

 

[McClarenDesign]

If Brad's busy again and can't host the racing tonight, I can.

Please.

 

[Thematic]

@Nismonath5 Racing time?

 

[Nismonath5]

@Nismonath5 Racing time?

Started at 3pm CDT. Still going though, come join

 

[JackRyanWMU]

"The Golf is All the Car You'll Ever Need," I've frequently heard opined by car reviewers. The '05 Golf V did an adequate job on the race course and would be easy to live with as a daily driver, but as we know, there's a difference between "Needs" and "Wants." The Volkswagen isn't a bad car at all, it can even punch above its weight and beat cars in the 410-420 PP range. It probably deserves a Sleeper rating, but at the end of the week it was still just a car to me, something that would be lost in the currents of ho-hum minivans, crossovers, and trucks as I plied the highways.

Well, Okay, it was special and memorable for one reason.

"The Day the Blitz Hit Belgium Again."​

 

[Nismonath5]

You already know what time it is!!!
Nismo's COTW Reviews!!!!
Episode #26: Ferrari 250GT / 250GTO

Baron previously set the record for "Most Expensive Week's COTW choice" long ago, with the $4.5 million Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe. Now, he set out to beat that record... not by a few hundred thousand dollars, but by $23 million!!!!!

Anyways, this week's review will be divided in two, to cover both the cars in question.

Part One: Ferrari 250GT berlinetta passo corto '61

"Innumerable wins in endurance racing"... What was it racing, bicycles???

The 250GT may be regarded as one of the greatest Ferraris of all time, but this is Gran Turismo 6. Rarity and prestige mean nothing here, it's all about the performance and feeling of the car. So how does it stack up?

For $7.5m, you get a 3.0 V12 producing only 288bhp, a 4 speed gearbox that tops out at about 210km/h, oh, and comfort tyres. This wouldn't be a bad thing if it was priced reasonably, but it's not. Seven and a half million dollars. To put this price into perspective, that's like buying...

-18 Audi R8 LMS Ultras, or
-3 Ferrari FXXs, or
-5 Pagani Huayras, or
-83 Ferrari Dinos, or
-15 Nissan GT-R N24s...
You get the point. You could get a lot of cars for that money, a lot of way better cars.

The Supercar of 50 years ago

Exorbitant price aside, the car's performance is pretty shabby. The acceleration is sluggish for a V12, you'll never win any drag races here. The handling seems alright at first, but as you attempt faster and faster lap times, you'll find it harder and harder to keep it on the road. The suspension is very soft, and if you're unfortunate enough to put a single wheel on the grass, it'll become super unstable and most likely spin out, and take out a few other drivers while you're at it.

Yup. Like that.

It may be a classic Ferrari, legendary in its own right, but here on GT6 it seems more like a collector's item than a car you'd actually use competitively, online and whatnot.

Part Two: Ferrari 250 GTO '62

The race-ier of the two, with some major holdbacks that keep it from reaching its full potential.

And here it is. The new "Most expensive Car Of The Week" ever! Nearly four times the price of the Daytona Cobra, the previous record holder. With such an insane price tag, it had better be able to rival a Tomahawk, right?

Haha, yeah, right!

Drag Racing at the unoffical COTW main track, Mid-Field!

While it certainly has an edge over the aforementioned 250GT, it's still nowhere near worth the price.
The power's been boosted to 310bhp, there's an extra gear, and the body's been cut down to 880kgs. These benefits mean that you get an additional 20pp more than the GT, the car this thing's apparently based on. It has a respectable launch off the mark, a top speed of around 250km/h, and sharper handling. But these performance numbers still aren't worth $20m. It almost seems like the price tag is a result of the GTO's real world rarity. Which is kinda stupid. As I said, this is GT6! Rarity means nothing, you can literally buy duplicates of a car that in real life is a one-off!
Although it is quite fun to drive, it has two huge problems, both to do with its handling. One can be taken care of, one cannot.

THE FIX-ABLE ONE
It's on comfort tyres. Though purchasing some sports or even racing tyres fixes that problem, easy as.

THE NOT FIX-ABLE ONE
The camber angles are non-adjustable, forcing you to race with 1.5 degrees on the front, and 3.5 degrees on the rear. This less-than-ideal camber setup really takes a blow on the GTO, making it harder to control.

If it weren't for the questionable suspension settings (or lack thereof), then perhaps the GTO would be a more competitive car. But hey, PD logic, right?

Various other Ferraris made cameo appearances on Saturday, including a 512 BB and an F430.

The 512 BB actually seems like a more affordable alternative if you want a classic Ferrari.

The Conclusion
So then, are either of these classics worth the money?

No, no they're not!

Well, this is actually open to debate. I'm sure any diehard Ferrari fan would snap them up without a second thought, regardless of price. But personally, I'm not loving them. They gave me nothing but grief all week, fought and wrestled me to the ground, and were generally hard to drive. Beaters, both of them. 👎

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

The 2-5-0h My god that's sexy Club!

For over 2 years now, I've been chomping at the bit to get these cars showcased. Ferrari was the first manufacturer's collection that I had bought all the cars they had to offer... unless you count the makers that only offered one or two. Ferrari has a place in the world of class and distinction unrivaled by ANY other car maker. Period. End of sentence. End of discussion.

Here in GT6, they are also the ONLY brand that gets the full glory of premium status of every car offered... again, unless you count the makers that only have one or two offerings. Ferrari is simply deserving of being elevated above the rest.

When I was told I was allowed to choose the next victim of our attention for COTW, these rich twins were the first that popped into my head. I figured this pick might be controversial, as they are pricy... but I couldn't resist, cause as a group we were painting the town red anyways, and special occasions deserve special opportunities.

Thankfully, when it came to racing them on Tuesday, I was prepared to handle their driving characteristics as neither of these twins were virgins. Not even close. We took a jaunt around Monza in the GT, where Vic and I had a pretty close race overall, and I was pretty happy as even though he beat me, I did pretty good in comparison. The GTO offered an even better ride, as it is a race car, and even with certain downfalls such as the previously mentioned permanent camber issues, I personally enjoyed getting to race this gorgeous example of rolling art.

No matter of which side of the Beater or Sleeper fence you might be on, I hope that everyone can appreciate the value of these historical and iconic offerings of yesteryear... an age of where you really had to master the art of using the weapon you were given to do battle with.

Cheers

 

[Draggon]

I enjoyed both of these cars this week, the GT more than the GTO due to that camber thing mentioned. Saturday's races were very competitive and the field was not as spread out as usual at the finish. I balked at buying these since I did not have them on my main account, but hey, its only pd-money, right?

I'd like to "toot my own horn" for once...This weeks TT results:

Cote D'Azur

G_ASHER 1:55.387
BaronBlitzRed 1:56.071
Rob_on_Drums 1:56.075
Racer2833 1:56.828
McCLarenDesign 1:56.956

Autodromo Nationale Monza

G_ASHER 1:56.415
BaronBlitzRed 1:56.520
Rob_on_Drums 1:59.384
thematic604 2:00.997

A point of pride for me, I don't see that happening again soon

 

[JackRyanWMU]

This Ain't No Damn Concours!
​

The problem that's arisen with classic cars gaining such stratospheric value on the auction market is that so many of them are simply never driven anymore, because every mile on the odometer, every revolution of the engine, and every compression of the springs causes them to lose a few thousand figures at the block. Even in GT6, affording the 250 GTO would've required either spending hours grinding for credits or selling the majority of my organs on the black market, which is why you're only getting a review of the road-going 250 GT this week.

The Sixties were a very important decade for cars, with manufacturers making strides in both safety and performance, and the 250 GT seems an excellent example of how that transition was unfolding. It made over 200 horsepower at a time when many cars didn't hit the triple digits in that figure and already had the light-weight, rear drive setup figured out.



However, the handling aspect hadn't quite caught up to the standards we expect from Ferraris today, and the tires were still too narrow to handle the g-loads that cars were starting to attain. I found the best way to drive it was to break early to mitigate the initial understeer and then seemingly slide the car around the apex and onto the next straight. The car was capable of great performance but the awkward handling caught more than a few people out.



Yet in spite of the handling and the price tag I couldn't help but like the 250 GT. It's gorgeous, it's iconic, it's legendary. I thought not once of "Beater or Sleeper", just how great it was to drive one without worrying one bit about depreciation.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Sorry about the delay, heads up though, next week may be similar. My daughter's camps (plural) plus my wife's schedule has thrown a spanner into things.

If you're American, google it.

Congratulations LM7325! You're the next contestant on whateverthepriceisIdontcareanymoreImdrunkyoucanttellmewhattodoyourenotmyREALdad...

Well thank you. I will pick something obscure, yet worth a drive at the same time. I choose...

It's the 2003 Mazda Kusabi Concept!!! Word of caution, you can have any color you like, so long as it's Earl or Jean Grey, but wheels are able to be modified and painted. But remember what happened to all the little kids with the pumped up kicks...

This week's time trial will be a single-lap affair on the infamous Wangan. Because desperate searches for tenths are my sick and twisted idea of fun. Okay, mostly twisted, not as much sick.

 

[Obelisk]

Sorry about the delay, heads up though, next week may be similar. My daughter's camps (plural) plus my wife's schedule has thrown a spanner into things.

If you're American, google it.

Congratulations LM7325! You're the next contestant on whateverthepriceisIdontcareanymoreImdrunkyoucanttellmewhattodoyourenotmyREALdad...

It's the 2003 Mazda Kusabi Concept!!! Word of caution, you can have any color you like, so long as it's Earl or Jean Grey, but wheels are able to be modified and painted. But remember what happened to all the little kids with the pumped up kicks...

This week's time trial will be a single-lap affair on the infamous Wangan. Because desperate searches for tenths are my sick and twisted idea of fun. Okay, mostly twisted, not as much sick.

Route 7? Aw yes!

 

[Nismonath5]

I remember getting this car as a prize back in GT4... I was quite disgusted with its looks, but it drove alright. Had fun with it at Motorland, oh how I miss that lil track!

Front wheel drive, supercharged, and relatively compact... This week will be interesting!

 

[Draggon]

I like this car quite a bit. More will be revealed Tuesday, I'm sure. Interesting TT this week, that's for sure.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

I ain't Googling your strange 'Murican terms, McClaren, God knows what I might find if I do such a thing... I may find Sarah Palin or something of the sort, good lord.

But oh look, we're back to Japan (try to picture Caddicarus's accent during his "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino" review when saying that last word). And didn't the Kusabi bring back memories... old memories, GT5 memories.
I will also hold back from saying more until the time is right, but let's just say that I had my fair sair of Kusabi driving back in those happier days.

 

[todally_lit]

Great pic Baron! you get my vote for Pic of the Week!

The 2-5-0h My god that's sexy Club!

 

[LM7325]

Remind me not to pick cars while at work...

Truthfully I spent a good hour or 2 debating what car to pick. I didn't want to pick a sure thing, or a total lemon either. Hopefully you all enjoy this one.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

I ain't Googling your strange 'Murican terms, McClaren, God knows what I might find if I do such a thing... I may find Sarah Palin or something of the sort, good lord.

Actually, spanner is a UK term and @McClarenDesign was telling the Americans to Google it.

Great pic Baron! you get my vote for Pic of the Week

Thank you!!!

Cheers

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Actually, spanner is UK term and @McClarenDesign was telling the Americans to Google it.

Oh, is that so? I was under the impression he was talking about his daughter's "camps", 'cause sure as heck I wasn't understanding that...

But it's Summer camp, I gotcha. Or in Brad's particular case, "camps"...

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Throwback pic from my GT5 Suzuka time trials:

Mazda Kusabi '03
1.3L
146 hp / 6,000 rpm
133 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
900 kg (1,984 lbs)
402 pp

Fastest lap at Mid-Field on Comfort Soft tires:



121 mph maximum speed on the straight.

Cars within 0.500 seconds:

1:27.835 - 461 - Pontiac Tempest Le Mans GTO '64
1:27.842 - 420 - BMW Z4 '03
1:27.847 - 421 - Honda Accord Coupe EX '03
1:27.861 - 435 - Subaru Legacy B4 RSK '98
1:27.892 - 424 - Audi A3 3.2 Quattro '03
1:27.892 - 426 - Mazda MX-Crossport '05
1:27.899 - 422 - Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
1:27.913 - 456 - Mercedes-Benz CL 600 '00
1:27.914 - 406 - Mazda RX-8 '03
1:27.985 - 407 - Scion FR-S '12
1:27.991 - 404 - Toyota MR2 G-Limited '97
1:28.167 - 405 - Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R '99
1:28.195 - 405 - Honda Civic Type R (EP, EU) '01
1:28.224 - 411 - Lotus Elise '00
1:28.228 - 442 - Ford SVT F-150 Lightning '03
1:28.294 - 409 - Nissan Skyline GTS-t Type M (R32) '89
1:28.297 - 407 - Toyota 86 GT '12
1:28.304 - 415 - Ford Focus ST '06
1:28.330 - 402 - Mazda Kusabi '03
1:28.336 - 407 - Toyota 86 "Racing" '13
1:28.350 - 408 - Mazda RX-8 Type E '03
1:28.422 - 402 - Acura RSX Type-S '04
1:28.445 - 424 - Toyota Celica GT-Four (ST205) '98
1:28.480 - 403 - Renault Sport Clio R.S. '11
1:28.498 - 421 - Audi TT Coupe 3.2 Quattro '03
1:28.523 - 406 - Mazda RX-7 GT-X (FC) '90
1:28.529 - 401 - Mitsubishi FTO GPX '97
1:28.555 - 428 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR '92
1:28.575 - 443 - Ford Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
1:28.580 - 396 - Toyota Altezza RS200 '98
1:28.605 - 411 - Nissan Silvia K's (S13) '91
1:28.612 - 430 - Toyota Soarer 2.5GT-T '97
1:28.623 - 407 - Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '93
1:28.636 - 400 - Mitsubishi FTO GPX '94
1:28.669 - 403 - Acura Integra Type R '01
1:28.669 - 417 - Nissan Stagea 260RS AutechVersion '98
1:28.713 - 419 - Alpine A110 1600S '73
1:28.719 - 438 - Mercedes-Benz SL 500 (R129) '98
1:28.728 - 415 - Land Rover Range Rover Evoque Coupe Dynamic '13
1:28.754 - 427 - Buick GNX '87
1:28.756 - 414 - Renault Sport Mégane R.S. '08
1:28.768 - 408 - Volkswagen New Beetle Cup Car '00
1:28.784 - 409 - Nissan 180SX Type X '96
1:28.810 - 414 - Toyota Tacoma X-Runner '04

Last week's COTW is just a tick under one second slower than this week's car. It's almost 2.5 seconds quicker than the 3rd generation Mazda MX-5.

Sleeper to me based on these observations. Definitely a FF MX-5 with a rotary engine

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Oh, is that so? I was under the impression he was talking about his daughter's "camps", 'cause sure as heck I wasn't understanding that...

But it's Summer camp, I gotcha. Or in Brad's particular case, "camps"...

HUH???

No, it's not camps... a spanner is actually a wrench. As in "thrown a wrench into things". Or plans. etc etc etc.

Sorry about the delay, heads up though, next week may be similar. My daughter's camps (plural) plus my wife's schedule has thrown a spanner (wrench) into things.

If you're American, google it.

Here endeth the lesson for today. Please note that tomorrow there will be a pop quiz, you can thank me later!

Cheers

 

[Nismonath5]

I'm gonna save most of my views for my review, but for now, here's some things to note about the Kusabi after tonight's racing...

1. It's very unassuming.
Considering it's a 1300cc with less than 150bhp, it's amazingly quick. It's also very nimble, and surprisingly there's not a hint of understeer to be found, despite its FF drivetrain. This may be partially thanks to the relatively light weight, or perhaps to the fact that it's a little nose-heavy. Either way, it's fun to throw around, easy to get the hang of, and is very forgiving!

2. It exceeded my expectations off-road!
I'm not sure what we were thinking when we went to Chamonix, but after a few laps I wasn't complaining! It's responsiveness and power aren't drowned out in the snow, and it left me in awe and wanting more! Sure, it's no WRC car, but at the same time you wouldn't think it could perform as well as it did on snow!

3. It can keep up with the Gazoo 86.
On paper, a 1300cc FF with less than 150bhp shouldn't be able to match the pace of a 2.0L FR with 207bhp. But it does! I got behind the wheel of Gazoo's Nurburgring machine when we went to Ascari, and even with the signifigant power advantage, I couldn't shake Vic or Lewis, both in Kusabis! That alone grants the Kusabi respect!
That was surely one of the best COTW races I've been in to date! I knew I was in for a solid race right from the get go, and despite a few mistakes I ended up finishing between Vic and Lewis! Even our very own COTW spectator my dad enjoyed that one, in his words, "The best race since Le Mans in the Mustangs!"

The scales are tipping in the favour of sleeper for the Kusabi, but we'll see how Saturday works out. As we know, opinions can change after another night's racing...

 

[Niku Driver HC]

HUH???

No, it's not camps... a spanner is actually a wrench. As in "thrown a wrench into things". Or plans. etc etc etc.

No no Baron man, you're getting it wrong. I thought that McClaren was referring to the term "camps" when he was talking about the strange term which needed Googling in his sentence. I wasn't thinking that "camps" was the meaning of "spanner", that's far from being the intention behind my original sentence... I do know what spanner stands for, I just didn't think that was the term he was referring for.

But thanks for the lesson nonetheless, I can always appreciate that. 👍

Throwback pic from my GT5 Suzuka time trials:

Sleeper to me based on these observations. Definitely a FF MX-5 with a rotary engine

Well doesn't everyone here have some sort of memories with the Kusabi... Not bad for a forgotten Mazda concept, it seems that there are reasons for people to not forget it.

Also, funny you should mention the "rotary" trademark, because there is something else behind that engine;

Supercars.net says:
Mazda Kusabi Concept is equipped with a new 1.6-liter MZ-CD diesel engine (...)

diesel

diesel

That's no rotary son, it's the Devil's fuel! But somehow, no doubt thanks to Mazda's enginnering skill, this devil is actually pretty angelic...