Better sound!

[Dave_George]

you take every car you are going to put in the game, you bring it to a acoustically chamber with a dyno in it. you position reference-spec microphones in the car, on top of the car, behind the car, al over the room. you run the car at various speeds, (i.e. idle, slow, fast, pinned) then you get the same car with a turbo or SC or race exhaust or whatever. then its only a matter of resampling the sound with high end audio-fragmentors (they have the cash for these sort of things) and sync them in with the acceleration forumulas/code whathaveyou. repeat 1200 times. yes it is probably very long tedious work, but cmon PD, if your gunna make us wait for 5 years for a game, do it right. please dont try to convince me that a formula 1 car sounds like a moped engine.


Hi all,

In response from the above post, taking cars and recording actual sounds.....thats exactly what they did! The Caterham Fireblade in the game was an actual fleet car for the magazine "EVO" and was a car evo were trying to get as light as possible for a test.....they managed to get it used for the GT4 model and went to a day somewhere where PD strapped microphones etc to it and recorded the engine at various revs/loads etc and then also did the driving of the car etc etc.

However i imagine that those sounds then have to go through so much work that they only resemble the original when finished. Ive noticed that most engines sound best at idle......i know never used! but i find i agree with the comments about pitch and lots of engines sounding the same, im fairly happy with the sounds overall, they done a good job with 700 motors and the sound is better in my opinion than all previous GT's.

The thing that bugs me the most is the wind noise coming through my surround system, i use the nose cam view(so you cant see any of the car) as to me its most realistic (what use is a cam mounted on the roof???) but in any car above 100MPH the wind is too loud and i have to turn my vol down, thus never enjoying the sound as much as i should.

Funny how the noise of the LeMans cars in the opening Vid is very realistic aswell.....guess its easier to record for that!!

 

[~DrifterEX~]

I want my rotary sound to improve, no game I have played has ever gotten it right

 

[superfast]

For example, they totally screwed up the sound (as well as the preformance) of the C5-R. I've heard it in real life at ALMS events, and it is a huge thundering V8, not that buzzy crap in GT4 👎 . Still, regardless of "bad" sound, GT4 still rox! GT4 4ever!

 

[superfast]

I hate to say it, but I agree. Changing gears in NFSU2 is far more realistic than in GT4.

It's just double clutching. It may make the experience slightly better in GT5, but in the long run, how much of a difference will bad shifting sounds really make?

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

For example, they totally screwed up the sound (as well as the preformance) of the C5-R. I've heard it in real life at ALMS events, and it is a huge thundering V8, not that buzzy crap in GT4 👎 . Still, regardless of "bad" sound, GT4 still rox! GT4 4ever!

Hiya! : O Meow! (='.'=)

I would like to say that I am dissapointed with all of the American V8 sounds in the game! Messing up the sound of the C5-R is personally the most dissapointing sound in the game IMO. When I drive it, I want that car to unleash the power from my subwoofer and to sound like I have one in my room! 👍

 

[TVRKing]

It's just double clutching. It may make the experience slightly better in GT5, but in the long run, how much of a difference will bad shifting sounds really make?

Maybe, but at least you can hear it changing gears, and the revs drop slightly before the next gear is engaged. The cars in GT4 all go silent during changes.

One thing that get's my goat up is the pick-ups. they're supposed to be baddass V8's yet you can hardly hear them unless you're in cockpit view. Even then, it's drowned out by the road noise.

 

[2004TSX]

I've been fiddling around with sound effects on my computer, and I think I know what the problem is with GT:

Most of the cars use only a single sound as the basis for the entire RPM range.

I have a sound here, some unidentified car running at mid-RPM, nice and steady. Sounds real because it is real. But, when I pitch up the sound (i.e. revving up), guess what it sounds like? Yep. Fake-ass GT engine sound.

What I need is a better sound to fiddle with.. something grumbly like a Viper. Any clue where to find a sound bit of a Viper running steady at mid-RPMs?

"...when I pitch up the sound..." Very true. I recorded my 2005 Suzuki Forenza Wagon the other day. I accerated from 0-60 and listened to it on the recording. Normal playback it sounded just like the real thing. When I sped it up, it sounded like an F1 car! I guarantee that a $14,300 car does not sound like an F1.....


PS.. If you've never heard of a Suzuki Forenza, it is also badged as a Chevy Optra in Canada, Chevy Nubira in Germany, Chevy Lacetti in the UK.

 

[MakoRacing]

I think you guys for the most part missed the underlying point. The car's don't sound exciting.

When you hear a race car in person, or even a recording of one it sounds loud, powerful... and many other words. Its difficult to describe, but it sounds exciting. You want to hear it rev, you want to hear it wind out in 5th gear, you want to hear the driver heal toe downshift from 6th to 2nd for a turn then hammer the throttle at the apex.

In GT4 I don't want to hear any of those things, the engines sound flat, lifeless, quite, muffled, weak, generic, the sounds of real race car engines can never be described by these words, ever! In GT4 the sound of the engine is only there to remind you that the car does indeed have an engine in it. PD needs to make the cars sound loud most of all, but also harmonious because a racing engine is a tuned instrument. I want to hear backfires and see them too. If PD can do these things i'll even be nice and not ask that they make the transmissions sound right.

In the Vision GT preview we did get to hear Formula cars, and JGTC cars but they all sounded the same. I have a sneaky suspicion that PD just took track recordings and used them in the video. The random helicopter sound effect strengthens this idea for me.

PD did get the sounds better in this one then GT4, part throttle sounds different then full, and the cars do sound a tad bit realistic, but I want the cars to sound loud and exciting most of all. They didn't do these things so I wont praise them for it. The sound needs improvement if they are going to keep the title of 'The real driving simulator'.

 

[stumpydino]

i want a v8 to sound like a v8! and they should sound a lot better with racing exhaust. there are only a few cars that really sound nice in gt4, but they all need a stronger sound

 

[Freddie]

I have to say that I agree with a lot of the posts above. I do however not share the vision that better recording equipment will be the future, but that a "sound effects simulation engine" will take care of that area instead. PD already has tons of specs on lots of cars. If they could collect exhaust-pipe specifications (length, mufflers, by-pass valves, manifolds, the lot) and combine those with those of the engines', the SESE should be able to simulate the proper noise-causing vibrations and create authentic engine sounds.

It would have the advantage that it can simulate the noises of modified as well as damaged cars, plus area-specific noises (echo, long distance sounds, weather etc).

Unfortunately it would also be processor demanding. But just think of it! The sounds would be, well, realistic!

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

I have to say that I agree with a lot of the posts above. I do however not share the vision that better recording equipment will be the future, but that a "sound effects simulation engine" will take care of that area instead. PD already has tons of specs on lots of cars. If they could collect exhaust-pipe specifications (length, mufflers, by-pass valves, manifolds, the lot) and combine those with those of the engines', the SESE should be able to simulate the proper noise-causing vibrations and create authentic engine sounds.

It would have the advantage that it can simulate the noises of modified as well as damaged cars, plus area-specific noises (echo, long distance sounds, weather etc).

Unfortunately it would also be processor demanding. But just think of it! The sounds would be, well, realistic!

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

If all of this was to happen, I can already picture a bunch of happy GTP members getting VERY EXCITED over their favorite cars sounds! It would definately be a miracle if the car sounds just as good as the driving physics!

Loud Blow Off Valves? YES PLEASE!
Popping noise from Backfire? YES PLEASE
Thundering V8s pounding the ground from our subwoofers? YES PLEASE

 

[meister_dan]

Loud Blow Off Valves? YES PLEASE!
Popping noise from Backfire? YES PLEASE
Thundering V8s pounding the ground from our subwoofers? YES PLEASE

Seeing as it's already the 4th installment of GT I would be suprised if the above happens..

 

[wazu!]

💡 Judging by the DVD from prologue, they just recorsed sound fron the engine, not the muffler. Mabey thats why a Fiat 500R sounds like a 427cid Dodge Charger..... 💡 . Tell Pd 2 record from all angles, maybe they did in GT4, cause there was a huge difference from GT3, I know cause I had 250+ cars in GT3 and 297 cars in GT4....

 

[Mr. Boy]

For GT5, I want the cars to sound just as they did at the beginning of the GT4 intro. THOSE ROARING ENGINES GIVE ME GOOSEBUMPS EVERY TIME I HEAR THEM!!!! I was kinda disappointed that the LMP/Group C car sounds were so lacking in terms of authenticity (except for the Pescarolos and the 787B). The R8 sounds like a freakin' JGTC Skyline!

 

[madmax 2006]

I heard"keyword-heard" that they got the sounds from under the hood, but that's not where the roaring sounds come from, it's the exhaust...

 

[MakoRacing]

The 787B isn't even close to what it should sound like.

I can't belive they would make that big of an oversight.... the cars sound should be recorded from the drivers seat.

This is what I want out of GT5:
http://www.objectifvideo.com/php/video.php?id=87

 

[futuredrifter]

The 787B isn't even close to what it should sound like.

I can't belive they would make that big of an oversight.... the cars sound should be recorded from the drivers seat.

This is what I want out of GT5:
http://www.objectifvideo.com/php/video.php?id=87

Thats a high expectation there, lets see if it happens.

 

[futuredrifter]

The 787B isn't even close to what it should sound like.

I can't belive they would make that big of an oversight.... the cars sound should be recorded from the drivers seat.

This is what I want out of GT5:
http://www.objectifvideo.com/php/video.php?id=87

Thats a high expectation, lets see if it happens.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

This is what I want out of GT5:
http://www.objectifvideo.com/php/video.php?id=87

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

Just watching that video made me think of something that PD could be lying about.

Do all of you really think PD actually got all these cars in real life and recorded their sounds? I can't imagine PD going to out in the world and giving some test to that crazy car in that video at all! I think its just crazy!

I am starting to feel like I can't trust PD that much anymore. Being able to test out those kinds of cars and recording their data is something I don't believe. Chevrolet actually letting PD use their C5-R for sound and driving data? I am not going to believe all of this anymore until I see improvements for the next GT.

PD better do something since PGR3's sound engine is excellent. They got a demo video of how they have the sound of a Ferrari F355 and a Skyline R34 in the game. I give PGR3 a big PLUS so far for their effort.

 

[Shoelaces]

I took a quick search and failed to find this topic. I don't know how. Well, I wrote the following and before posting it, found this thread. So I'll will post it as an addition to this one.


This may be a dead topic, but it is relevant to my opinion. Following a search in this online database, I found no conversation surrounding details specific to the dilemma related to audible authenticity.

What sound of the car shakes our inner teenager? Is it the whine of the alternator? Is it the constant suction of air through the filter? Is it the tell tail cry of the supercharger? Or is it the exhaust pipes resonance that causes those delightful heart palpations when we depress the throttle?

For all of the cars that have been mentioned in the posts that I did find with "search" it is not the sound coming from under the hood that has our attention. Several people pointed out how the Cobra sounds amazing, yet the Corvette falls short. Does the ‘Vette deserve less attention than the Espirit? Does the Twin Turbo Supra really sound limp compared to an S2000? It is the exhaust note emitted ladies and gentlemen. That sirens song at 5000 rpm pulling us to the finish line is where it’s at. It is not the whoosh of the intake so much as the pipe that's blowing that gut wrenching tune. Not the supercharger, not the headers, not the belts and certainly not the movement of the cylinders in the bowls of the engine itself. The single most audible separator from a Civic SI and a '06 Mustang GT is the sweet sweet sound of the exhaust. I hope that all the GT4 fans are following the trend here. It's the exhaust note that turns our heads at a movie theatre, restaurant and gas station. I'm focusing on the exhaust note to make a strong and valid point. Polyphony Digital and Sony did NOT focus on the exhaust note when recording the sounds to their vehicular library. In fact I remember distinctly boom mics placed over the engine compartment for several hundred vehicles being shown in .jpg and .bmp over the course of several months before the release of GT4.

Wonder why the Camaro sounds like a Cavalier? Open up your hood Camaro owners and have someone hit the gas. You won't hear much coming from the back of the car as it is drowned out by the engine bay filled with belts, air intakes, and block vibrations. Sickening isn't it that a game so dedicated to being the ultimate driving simulator completely ignores one of the fundamental elements that drives us to push the pedal around a corner. If PD wants to make you feel like you are in it to win it, then by every avenue possible, they should figure out how to recreate (not imitate) the sound we hear as a car drives by. It is this delicious goose bump generating exhaust note.

Look at the NFS franchise. They have all but mastered the recreation of the topic at hand during different stages of upgraded glory. Polyphony could have at the very least separated inline 4s from the V8s, twin turbo inline 6s from V12s with a more distinct and palatable flare.

My solution is not just to move the mic from the front to the back of the car. That would be too easy. It seems effective yet still far too easy. We are moving forward to the PS3 generation of Gran Turismo. Using fiber optics as the medium for digital sound, 7.1 capable processing from the PS3 and memory to support our little fantasy, it's high time we see some sound processing that is worthy of a world renowned driving simulator. Keep your mic PD, keep it under the hood and blend that source over the front stage left, center and right. Add 4 more that are mounted to each corner of the car. It would be preferred to have them attached to the bumper itself. Let's all get that visual. Microphones taped to the 4 corners of your favorite GT4 machine. Do any of you see the possibilities involving sound staging? An 03 RSX TypeS is our first test subject because it is what I drive. Engine bay sounds on front left and right stage, with emphasis on intake to the front left because that is where the open element sits. Now let's add the whine of the supercharger just off center to the right, as that is where the intake manifold is. Exhaust note to the right rear in FULL FEDELITY AS RECORDED BY THE MIC RIGHT ABOVE THE EXHAST SYSTEM!!!! I hope someone at PD read that. Let's say we get creative. Laguna Seca, between turn 3 and 4, 03 RSX TypeS passes an Opel Speedster on the inside lane. The sounds of the Opel passes by the front left to rear left as the move is completed. Your tires squeal on the left as you plow into turn 4, only the speakers relative to loss of traction emanate failure.

After your heart slows down, I would like for you to respond with a yay or nay to this thought process. As this is just my opinion I expect some to disagree. And to those I say, "Think of the possibilities".

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

Shoelaces, nice explanation!

I thought PD had always put a mic behind the cars. I think I may need to see that video again of them recording car sounds.

I would love to have the sound accuracy and quality to be realistic as possible. It would really make a difference in the fun factor fot the next GT in my opinion.

 

[luftrofl]

I don't see why there's such a discussion about how they should make sounds in GT5 better than in GT4.

Only a fool would think that they wouldn't improve in that, let alone any, department.

 

[Laorin]

I don't know that this will be possible for a few years, but technically it IS possible. The technology might or might not be in the PS3, not sure.

But, to get cars to sound right at every perspective, the only real option for PD to use would be to realistically model every single part, material, everything, for every car. Take it from the blueprint data. Render it in-game to be as exact as possible. Code a game engine (not a car engine) that can take that information, what the parts are shaped like, what materials the car is made of and how sound goes through it, etc..

And basically do with the sound engine what they are doing with the lighting engines in most PS3 games now. Everyone is talking about (and it has been shown at the PS3 unveiling) how they can map out - very realistically - the direction light is going so it looks totally realistic from any vantage point.

They can do the same thing with sound waves. It won't be the same thing, obviously, because we're talking about different speeds of sound for different elevations, how wind affects it, sound reflections and whatnot, etc.

I'm sure they have a trick up their sleeves with the PS3 sound engines. We can hope, anyway. The amount of data required for each car in GT5 to be able to output sound in this manner would be absolutely stunning and I'm 99% sure we won't be getting it for a while. But sooner or later, they WILL make this happen.

 

[Mercedes SL]

There are very good sound in GT4... Yeah there are. I played months where i couldn't hear the car when i was using inside camera. Even a noisy old racer Ford GT was all silent. One day i got mad, because i had heard a SLR McLaren on TV. And i couldn't even hear the engine in GT4. But when i turned the setting to "Mono" i got all the sound i wished.

 

[Laorin]

For my sake, I'll at least give PD the benefit of the doubt. I've heard all sorts of cars on TV and such. My real issue is, how can we really be sure? Hell, I've even recorded a sound sample of the Audi R8 during last year's 12 Hours of Sebring. To hear the car at speed in GT4, it sounded completely unlike. But don't go being like "all this technology and all this money PD makes, and they can't afford better sound technology?"

I give things the benefit of the doubt so it doesn't seem like I'm ass-kissing all the time. With sound, I speak from passion. How can we really be sure what a car really sounds like compared to how a game puts it? Have you raced an Audi R8? Have you driven a Dodge Viper to its limit? Have you rally raced a Subaru Impreza WRC? How can you be completely sure that sounds are completely perfect? I've played Codemasters games in which the cars almost seem to similar in sound. That is why I am not making too much of a deal out of this. If a PC game can get sounds down perfect while a console game sounds like crap or sounds completely different from one another, then that's just the PC's gain and the console's loss. I don't own a rigged-out PC. I own a crappy 32 MBRAM, crash-happy eMachines. This is not to mention you have production cars in addition to race cars. One thing I was kind of annoyed with in GT3 was when I put a Racing Muffler on a car, there seems to be this "universal" sound. For example, if I hook up an S2000 or a Civic with a Racing Muffler, it will seem to sound like the JGTC/Super GT NSXes.

All I'm getting at is that I think things will get better in terms of sound. I'm not going to make the distinction between what exactly sounds like the car in question, and what doesn't. If a Daihatsu Move sounds like a Dodge Viper GTS-R, oh well. I'll reserve my judgments when the next GT is finally released. Then we'll be the judge.

You have to remember (and this is stated in my post above in a different way), that the limiting factor here is the implementation of sound in games. What PD has been doing is basically recording the sound somehow a few times, modifying that sound a bit and using it in-game. This will absolutely NEVER render accurate sound because.. well, that isn't how sound works.

The only true way we can be satisfied with how a car sounds is if PD inherently changes the way sounds are generated from within the game engine.

The standard "here's a coordinate in space which i want this sound to play, play sound" model will never work. There are a lot of things to factor in from every perspective, because sound will hit EVERYONE differently. The in-car sound will be completely and utterly different than out-of-car sound. Throw a tune-up in there and the sound from all perspectives changes drastically (or even subtly) again. throw on carbon fiber body panels, take out the sound insulation.. everything changes. They would have to make hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of recordings for every single car to get it at least DECENT for all the different possibilities that we have here. It just won't work.

It is a very difficult and touchy issue that I can guarantee won't be solved in GT5. The problem requires a lot more technological power rather than cleverness to solve.

I don't know if I can make my point sufficiently but I hope you guys understand what I'm saying. To get sound to be accurate in all situations this requires total innovation here - and a LOT of manpower to get all the data in the game. It's staggering and quite sobering to look at.

 

[Polo609GT]

Wow, nice to see my thread so hyped up! well then:
1. Angel, you are teh ****! Awesome to see a girl so into gran turismo, you have my full respect!
2. GT SOUNDS ARE NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH! this is not new anymore, as it has been covered in the thread so many times. So I just wanted to say that, if need for speed underground pulled off great sounds for their vehicles, PD can do much better. Especially since gt4 took so long to come out...in that time they had enough time to register MANY cars. It was mentioned that the sound was coming from the engine and not the exaust, and vice versa..well we want to hear what comes out from both!

The best sound so far that ive herd in gt4....was a fully built engine on the 05 mustang, with supercharger. Its got about 505hp, and if you crank up the volume and listen to it idle...it is unbeleivable! Unfortunatly , its the only great sound ive herd in gt4 so far. I havent played for a while..but just thought i would share with everyone, GO TRY IT NOW! listen to it idle, then tap the accelerator....and i promise you will cream your pants!or panties! lol

 

[benzoboy]

I hate that so many cars sound similar, I thought they had different sounds. I second better sounds.

Ya, ever noticed how The Jag XJ220, Auto Union Streamliner And The BMW LMP Thingy Sound The Same? Or at Least Similar

 

[Laorin]

You guys read my posts and understand why we won't have better sounds for a while, right?

 

[Jedi2016]

You basically reiterated what others have said. We know that already. It's up to PD to take on that challenge for GT5, since they'll actually have a system capable of doing what you describe.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

You know, I am wondering...how did Need for Speed 2 get the sound to be good? The sound of the GTO rumbling in that game is so sexy!