Beyond: Two Souls

[dr_slump]

You think that's bad you should have seen the Gamespot review of GTA5. So much hate on the reviewer, most of it disgusting abuse.

That's mostly because those 🤬 have a problem with the reviewer. "She" gave it a 9/10, which surely isn't an uncommon or somehow very low rating score for GTA V.
Sure, "she" focused the bad points a little too much on one topic, but yeah...

It's hardly comparable.




This is like a comparison of apples and oranges.

 

[mcfizzle]

Picked this up today. I've been purposely avoiding any info and videos on the game to not be spoiled. I know reviews have been mixed so it will be interesting to see how I feel as a huge fan of Heavy Rain. So far playstyle and presentation seem similar.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Planning on picking this up on Tuesday after watching the first few videos of a playthrough, now have to resist the lure of watching anymore.

 

[mcfizzle]

Yeah, don't watch anything in advance. I'm through the Navajo scene. I'm really enjoying the game so far although I can see how some might not like this type of game. I find it engrossing even though there doesn't seem to be as much interaction and influence on the story as Heavy Rain.

Spoiler

Not a true spoiler but favorite scenes so far are Homeless and Navajo.

 

[Piotrov]

Anyone have a review of their own experience with this? Been holding of on this as I'm not sure if it's worth the price.

 

[mcfizzle]

Did you like Heavy Rain?

Have you checked out the demo and enjoyed it?

Would you enjoy a game that is much heavier on story and emotions than gameplay?

If yes then the game is excellent.

Full disclosure I'm not completely through it and in fact have no clue about what percentage it's complete. I have to be somewhere around 10 hours in though.

 

[McLaren]

Anyone have a review of their own experience with this? Been holding of on this as I'm not sure if it's worth the price.

You kind of really have to "play" it yourself because a lot of it is emotion-driven along with different endings/scenes due to previous interactions & judge your own reaction. Actual gameplay is practically non-existent, imo.

My own thoughts below, so don't read if you think you may be spoiled. I don't give out any plot details, just some chapter names & my reaction overall, mainly to the game's story arc.

Personally, I couldn't get over how completely far fetched the story was & that's ignoring Aiden. As emotionally fragile as Jodie is throughout her life, yet still capable of covert op missions? If it wasn't for the non-linear storyline, I probably would have stopped after Jodie's teenage years. The plot is just very weak & has some dumb plot twists & bad dialogue like one liners that just make you cringe.

I think this game's attempt at being emotionally-driven ended up failing for me as well. A lot of it just felt forced & the whole game ended up being a, "Poor Jodie" after near every chapter. There are some genuine scenes that could make you feel really bad for her, but not all; you see them coming. A couple chapters felt like fillers to me as well such as the Navajo & Apartment. The story still could have progressed without them. I was about to throw the Assassination & Homeless in with it, except the results of them actually provided the foundation for Jodie's future interactions.
I will say William Dafoe was brilliant as expected & he pretty much made everything he could of his character's dialogue as his own. Unfortunately, because the story revolved around Ellen Page, that wasn't as much as the case; she did what she could with a bad script. Could have done more to show her age past 15 instead of opting for different hair styles, but she looked damn good for a video game character. I have more thoughts on the game, but I didn't want to end up writing a novel that critiques the story line in detail.

To be frank, my immediate thought following the game's ending...."Wow, The Last of Us had a much better story of Ellen Page as a video game character than this". Even with Page's physically modeled interactions in the game, her voice, her acting capabilities, her likeness & everything else about her put in the game for the foundation of Jodie (including her height!), none of that overcame that completely bad story line. My only reason ever replay it is just to remember how Page reacts to everything & feel bad for Jodie's life.

But otherwise, for 2 games that chose Ellen Page's likeness for their protagonists, one actually using her, The Last of Us was just much better & possibly something she shouldn't have made a fuss about or better yet, the one she should have found a way to sign on with.

 

[Piotrov]

Thanks, I'll just wait for the bargain bin price for this!

 

[mcfizzle]

As emotionally fragile as Jodie is throughout her life, yet still capable of covert op missions?

The two don't have anything to do with each other. Her emotional fragility has to do with trust and being abandoned her whole life. She has this problem she can't control and it pushes people away. When people leave her that's where the emotional problems come out. That doesn't make her incapable of functioning in the real world or being trained to utilize her 'gift' for the CIA. It's not like she's so emotionally fragile that she can't survive in the world on her own. This is a completely different discussion but I would argue most people who do covert ops type stuff in the real world are probably missing some piece of the emotional puzzle and that's what enables them to do the things they do.

As for the poor Jodie comment, I didn't take it that way. I took it as David Cage trying to get you emotionally invested in this girl and for you to truly understand the struggles she has been through. For me it worked, I felt her pain in certain scenes. That wouldn't have worked if they had just shown one negative event in her life or had a quick conversation about it. I know other people doesn't always feel those emotions though. A friend of mine felt nothing about Joel and Ellie's relationship in The Last of Us where it hit me hard.

 

[Akira AC]

I borrowed, played up to the Navajo part ... but my interest didn't hold as much.

I guess I'm not the kind of audience for this kind of game, I played with the mindset of playing it as a Silent Hill game but ... I'm not sure. There were some thrilling segments in the story, but up to the Navajo segment my interest dry out, Last of Us hold it a lot more, never played Heavy Rain so ... my two cents.

 

[mcfizzle]

I was bored with the Navajo scene until I left the ranch and now it's one of my favorites.

 

[McLaren]

The two don't have anything to do with each other. Her emotional fragility has to do with trust and being abandoned her whole life. She has this problem she can't control and it pushes people away. When people leave her that's where the emotional problems come out. That doesn't make her incapable of functioning in the real world or being trained to utilize her 'gift' for the CIA. It's not like she's so emotionally fragile that she can't survive in the world on her own. This is a completely different discussion but I would argue most people who do covert ops type stuff in the real world are probably missing some piece of the emotional puzzle and that's what enables them to do the things they do.*

Most people who do covert ops also aren't in an age range of 16-20 years old, which is where Jodie is in her life. And considering the only reason she gets brought in by the CIA is due to Aiden, she is also coincidentally capable of going through all the training & going on assassination missions following suit. Or that said missions go haywire & she pulls off the most unbelievable car chase. Even before this point in her life, when she's asked to go into the lab with the condenser feels extremely out there.

It's all extremely far fetched given Jodie's age, physical attributes, & emotional turmoil. If Aiden's presence in the game was more involving, I could believe it, but it's just not which is why I believe the developers had tons of potential with him to make this story far convincing.

As for the poor Jodie comment, I didn't take it that way. I took it as David Cage trying to get you emotionally invested in this girl and for you to truly understand the struggles she has been through. For me it worked, I felt her pain in certain scenes. That wouldn't have worked if they had just shown one negative event in her life or had a quick conversation about it. I know other people doesn't always feel those emotions though. A friend of mine felt nothing about Joel and Ellie's relationship in The Last of Us where it hit me hard.

I got the struggles she'd been through. I get she's different. But, that doesn't mean near every point in her life had to make me feel something for her. Which is why I said earlier that a lot of the game's emotion-filled scenes are forced because there were too many & some just didn't seem relatable in any way, which is a great way to draw emotion from a player. Sam & Henry drew emotion because it was genuine & instantaneous. Same with Ellie & David, which is why the scenes with Jodie in the bar or Jodie's mother are definitely the more heart breaking moments of the game.

I will give some praise because in the instances were I did really feel for Jodie, they tugged at my strings more than The Last of Us (besides maybe David & Ellie). However, when I end up feeling like these are the best parts of the game where you're really connected to Jodie's life, I just can't forgive the rest. The only time I was really enjoying the positives in Jodie's life were during her relationships with Cole & Nathan. Everything else was just really cheesy or just no way in hell of me ever believing would ever happen, even with an entity due to how Jodie's portrayed mentally & physically.

I think David Cage had the right idea behind this story & some wonderful talent behind it, but was just poorly executed. I believe the potential behind Aiden considering he's supposed to be a "creature" of his own ability had a lot more potential than end up looking like the link behind Jodie having telekinesis.

 

[mcfizzle]

I definitely agree on the age of Jodie when entering the CIA was suspect and the condenser scene was my least favorite so far I would say.

Did you use Aiden often? I was constantly switching to Aiden to quickly check out rooms or scout out for enemies. I was switching to him in Sienese that didn't really use him.

Also I'm not done yet so everything I've written is based on my experiences up to the covert mission.

 

[McLaren]

I definitely agree on the age of Jodie when entering the CIA was suspect and the condenser scene was my least favorite so far I would say.

Did you use Aiden often? I was constantly switching to Aiden to quickly check out rooms or scout out for enemies. I was switching to him in Sienese that didn't really use him.

Also I'm not done yet so everything I've written is based on my experiences up to the covert mission.

I tried to use him when I thought he was most needed & not when Jodie seemed to prompt it. So, basically, I did what you did lol. But, when I learned that the game doesn't really "end" for you, that annoyed me & it felt like it didn't matter.

I'd like to know what you thought though, when you finished. The more I critique, the more I do want to replay it & try to find something to be more positive about because I really want to like this game & Jodie's story.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Just played a couple of hours and holy crap! Loving this game, best thing I've played since Resi. 4.

 

[ussr]

Just played a couple of hours and holy crap! Loving this game, best thing I've played since Resi. 4.

Man i had the same feeling, since GTA 5 sucks so badly I've decided to wait and but it Beyond two souls. That's what i call good money spend

 

[Pako]

^ Glad you like it! I bought with similar expectations of what The Last of Us did for me, and that was grab my attention and not let go until I finished it. This game just isn't doing it for me. I'm committed to finishing it, but at this point for me, it's kind of like, I'll get it done with there's nothing else to do...

 

[ussr]

That's the downfall of having great experience with single player and then after it's end there is nothing else to do.

Even Tomb Raider was great but after you finish with main adventure the island was deserted, there was no one to kill except animals, i found like three guys on the beach but that was it. In some way it's realistic which is really cool.

Only multiplayer is available in games like TR, LoU and GTA5 after you done with main adventure, or before it.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

^ Glad you like it! I bought with similar expectations of what The Last of Us did for me, and that was grab my attention and not let go until I finished it. This game just isn't doing it for me. I'm committed to finishing it, but at this point for me, it's kind of like, I'll get it done with there's nothing else to do...

I suppose it's a very 'marmite' game in the way it plays. But I'm firmly on the 'love' side, for me the story just makes me not want to stop (I make myself though, don't want to finish it too quickly ) despite the slightly different approach.

That's the downfall of having great experience with single player and then after it's end there is nothing else to do.

Even Tomb Raider was great but after you finish with main adventure the island was deserted, there was no one to kill except animals, i found like three guys on the beach but that was it. In some way it's realistic which is really cool.

Only multiplayer is available in games like TR, LoU and GTA5 after you done with main adventure, or before it.

I'd rather have a game with a good single player though. If I think back over my 10 or so years of gaming, the games I would classify as the best I've played are all single player only.

I'll probably play it through once more at least to try different choices throughout. I really would like to get that platinum trophy.

 

[mcfizzle]

Finished my story last night. I still think it's an excellent game. Really enjoyed the story telling and the experience as a whole.

Edit: did spoiler tags change?

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Finished my story last night. I still think it's an excellent game. Really enjoyed the story telling and the experience as a whole.

Edit: did spoiler tags change?

Just finished it about 15 minutes ago as well. Loved the game.

So much so that I'm now starting a new game of it.

 

[mcfizzle]

After going through the different endings for everyone saved choosing life and beyond I really hope this game sold well enough for them to make the sequel. It could be very interesting if you ask me.

 

[McLaren]

There's not going to be a sequel because it's not David Cage's style; it kills creativity in his eyes or whatever. After all, this the same man, the creator of all people, who also said you should play the game once & then never again so you can create "what if's" to Jodie's life.

 

[mcfizzle]

He said the same thing about Heavy Rain and then put trophies in to see all endings for both games.

Beyond 2 wouldn't center on Jodie though.

Spoiler

how do I use spoiler tags? The old way doesn't work.

 

[dr_slump]

He said the same thing about Heavy Rain and then put trophies in to see all endings for both games.

Beyond 2 wouldn't center on Jodie though.

Spoiler

how do I use spoiler tags? The old way doesn't work.

You can't use spoilers anymore as far as I know. Just go and have a look at the TLOU thread, what a mess!

 

[McLaren]

He said the same thing about Heavy Rain and then put trophies in to see all endings for both games.

Beyond 2 wouldn't center on Jodie though.

Spoiler

how do I use spoiler tags? The old way doesn't work.

What do trophies have to do with anything? From Cage's own mouth,

“You never design in reaction to critiques otherwise you create a product. I’m not creating products,” Cage told Kotaku in response to Heavy Rain’s critiques. “I’m trying to create experiences. I try to be sincere in what I’m doing. Yeah, we heard a lot of good things. We heard a couple of bad things. Good, let’s move on. Let’s try to do something better next time and maybe something else totally different.”

“The only thing I didn’t want to do was a sequel to Heavy Rain,” Cage mused, echoing previous sentiments. “Like, ‘Oh let’s just do the same thing. Fix a couple of things here and there and just release the same game pretty much.’ We started from a blank page [with Beyond: Two Souls] and we tried to create an experience that would be different, that would play differently.”

On sequels in general.

"Sequels kill creativity and innovation," he declared. "Many people want the same and if that's what you offer them, they will gladly buy it."

The outspoken Quantic Dream design chief told OPM that we're inundated with sequels because that's what we buy.

He continued: "The result is very simple. Gamers invest money in publishers having no interest in innovation. [Gamers] encourage [publishers] to keep making the same game every Christmas, and everybody's happy.

"If you're interested in innovation and believe that games could be more than shooters, then you realise that sequels kill creativity and innovation."

This honestly makes me happy considering the poor plot of Beyond to begin with. An article I read recently also described that the game would have been much better if it had been done chronologically because it would actually keep players invested in what was actually happening instead of figuring it out halfway through the chapter & then figuring it out again in the next one because there was no real clue to how she got to where she was or why. It also would have allowed players to really develop a deeper, emotional attachment to Jodie during her childhood years instead of the jumps through time where you realize quickly that she isn't s helpless as she seems.

 

[mcfizzle]

My point about the trophies was you said he wants you to play once. I know he said that and remember it from Heavy Rain. He says he wants you to play once but his trophies say you should find every possible ending. If he truly wanted us to do it once then he should have done trophies like The Walking Dead.

The whole reason I brought up a sequel, however, is because the ending completely sets up a sequel. A sequel with Zoey, but still a sequel.

Chronological order would be interesting.

 

[McLaren]

I have reason to doubt David Cage had any control over the trophies or cares at all about them considering how focused he is on trying to create an award winning script.

 

[mcfizzle]

That's a definite possibility.

 

[Ddrizle]

Spoiler: DLC