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Big Bang Telescope Captures Image
- Thread starter Small_Fryz
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Dotini
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http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMF2FRZ5BG_index_1.html
This link provides the electromagnetic frequencies displayed in that awesome image. We are not seeing stars, but rather the filamentary plasma structure underlying the current universe, as well as the CMB in magenta and yellow. Mainly it is our own galaxy, as other galaxies appear only as slivers and dots.
Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
This link provides the electromagnetic frequencies displayed in that awesome image. We are not seeing stars, but rather the filamentary plasma structure underlying the current universe, as well as the CMB in magenta and yellow. Mainly it is our own galaxy, as other galaxies appear only as slivers and dots.
Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
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Smallhorses
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Indeed. Given that it only takes light just over 5s to travel a million miles, it's a piffling distance in relative terms.
Even at orbital speed for a Space Shuttle (17,500 mph) it only takes a little under 3 days to travel a million miles.
To quote from the Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy:
It's a fantastic picture though, and I'm sure, just peanuts compared to what's to come with a (relatively) unobstructed view compared to what we've seen before.
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Dotini
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It is amusing that the ostensible mission of Planck was to study the CMB (cosmic microwave background), but these staggering images (thanks, TM) of our own galaxy have damnably got in the way, and will simply have to be deleted by the operators!
Our galaxy itself, neither expanding nor collapsing, appears in a steady state and shows no signs of a big bang. Other than what can be learned by the tea leaves of the CMB, the big bang theories rely upon an expanding universe. In turn, an expanding universe relies upon resolution of the redshift controversy. So, yes, it is all still a bit muddled, and provides a good reason to stay tuned to each new amazing observation of our awesome universe.
Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
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Seriously???
See, one of the problems with the perception of an expanding universe is that folks think all the stuff is flying out to fill the available space. I don't know if that's where you fit, but it's what most folks seem to think. Space is infinite, and the Big Bang happened in the middle somewhere.
That's not it at all.
There was no space before the Big Bang. There was nothing to fill.
Space itself is expanding, and carrying its contents outward with that expansion. The redshift from that expansion of space is seen in structures of a distance measured in millions of light-years. Our own galaxy, being 100,000 light-years across, is too close to show major redshifting from spacial expansion. That doesn't mean it's static. It's not going to look a whole lot different next week, but stick around for a couple billion years and have a look.
How do we know the CMB is from the Big Bang and not from, say, our microwaves?
Well, see, we haven't had microwave ovens long enough for their radiation to have travelled that far.
That means everybody else has them, too. PROOF of life throughout the Universe!!!!!!
TM, that's a nice link with the wavelength bar. Cool stuff showing up in hydrogen. . .
Dotini
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How do we know the CMB is from the Big Bang and not from, say, our microwaves?
Cosmic background radiation was first observed in 1965 as weak photons coming smoothly from all around us, having the very precise black body curve temperature 2.74 K. Since, in an expanding universe, radiation from different distances would have different temperatures, Big Bang theory restricts this radiation to a thin shell at the very outer edge of the universe. This shell represents a region in which radiation suddenly decoupled from matter at some point near the beginning.
But the smoothness of the radiation is also a strong argument for a non-expanding universe. The obvious and simple explanation is that it is merely the temperature of the underlying extragalactic medium. In 1926 Arthur Eddington calculated photon temperature in and around galaxies of 3 K. Many investigators have pointed out that if ambient galaxy starlight is redistributed into an equilibrium state, one gets closely the observed microwave background temperature.
We should emphasize that we are on the frontier where new ideas compete, and the answer may lie in an unexpected direction.
Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
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Well, see, we haven't had microwave ovens long enough for their radiation to have travelled that far.
That means everybody else has them, too. PROOF of life throughout the Universe!!!!!!
TM, that's a nice link with the wavelength bar. Cool stuff showing up in hydrogen. . .
How funny would it be if the key to understanding the universe and tracking down extra-terrestrial civilization were just a byproduct of the heating of frozen burritos across the universe?
Dotini
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It may turn out you are right!!
According to these Thunderbolts TPODs, the background microwave radiation may indeed originate right here on Earth.
"Electric Universe advocate Wal Thornhill pointed out that neither COBE or WMAP detected "cosmic" radiation. Rather, they both found the natural microwave radiation from "electric current filaments in interstellar plasma local to the Sun. Instead of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), it is the Interstellar Microwave Background. That makes sense of the fact that the CMB is too smooth to account for the lumpiness of galaxies and galactic clusters in the Universe."
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/arch10/100421redshifts.htm
"So, in reality, there is no temperature fluctuation from the earliest days of the universe shining in microwaves down from the heavens. However, the problems with CMB measurements from COBE and WMAP are far greater than we considered in that previous article. Coupled with previous observations by Thornhill and others, the CMBR appears to get most of its energy signature from a rather surprising place: Earth itself."
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch09/090826planck.htm
Respectfully,
Dotini
Dotini
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There was wisdom in your jest. That's often the case with jesters. It made me think of the "experimenter effect" where the experimenter alters the outcome due to his own unwitting efforts. It also drove me to round out the competing answers to "cosmic" background radiation:
1) It's a thin decoupled shell at the farthest edge of the universe.
2) It's the extragalactic medium.
3) It's local noise produced either by our own sun or planet.
If we had the answers there would be no need for all those expensive space probes and satellites. It'll be fun seeing who's right, or if everybody's wrong.
Yours,
Dotini
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This whole astronomy thing is something that I think is a waste of time. Just think of it this way, every star in the sky will always be just where it is in the sky for the entire life of any astronomer. All of their findings are best guesses and estimates, yes I’ll give um credit for the whole black holes exist thing, and what makes a star change from A to B, but how does that ever help poverty, fix any economy, or lend it’s self to putting a roof over anyone’s head but an astronomers.
As for anyone who thinks that we can fold space, good luck with that. So as far as I’m concerned we are never going to leave our solar system, and I think it was intended to be that way. The only thing that I think an astronomer is good for is maybe telling me when we are going to be hit by an asteroid, and they take really cool pictures of the night sky.
As for anyone who thinks that we can fold space, good luck with that. So as far as I’m concerned we are never going to leave our solar system, and I think it was intended to be that way. The only thing that I think an astronomer is good for is maybe telling me when we are going to be hit by an asteroid, and they take really cool pictures of the night sky.
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Smallhorses
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Are you absolutely serious?
In my lifetime (and you're older than me, so in yours too) there have been many observed instances of stars doing entirely the opposite of what you've just suggested.
Try this one for size.
In 1974 when I was born, SN1987A was a star twinkling away in the sky as stars are wont to do. In 1987, it went fooooom in an enormous way. Now there is no star, just remnants of the supernova explosion. Now, tell me is that star still in the same place as it's always been throughout my life? Nope.
Is it a "best guess & estimate"?, the pictorical evidence suggests not.
That's just 1 of thousands of examples.
By understanding astronomy only to be photographing stars and planets, one cannot immediately fix poverty on Earth, however, the data collected regarding radiation, planetary formation, observation of weather cycles, etc, could all lead to changes being made to our own planet, such as, (and this is a little far fetched, I'll admit) the ability for us in future to control our climate, and restore growth to barren areas of our planet, which in the case of the Sahara desert would certainly alleviate a whole 🤬 of a lot of poverty.
For the people who make the electronic equipment that's used in the detection systems of the astronomers toolbox, the people who make the mirrors for the telescopes, the people who make the rocket components required to launch these things, the people who make and test the rocket fuel that powers them (some of the stuff I work with is used for this purpose, amongst others), the people that work at NASA and other space agencies who calculate the tremendously complex flight paths of the satellites and space vehicles after launch, to be discounted as contributing "nothing to fix the economy" is utter lunacy.
These people are all paid, they spend their earnings buying produce and products that aren't soley astronomy related, doesn't that support the economy? It sure seems better than giving a bunch of Government officials and bankers control of the whole thing, as they don't seem to be able to fix it, and indeed could be justifiably accused of wrecking the whole thing in the first place.
Sure, a picture of a nebula isn't directly going to solve poverty, but you can't dismiss the effort and input that it takes to get that image as contributing nothing but the image itself.
Now then, remind us what great philanthropic, poverty solving, economy fixing line of work you're in?
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I guess I’m not the only one who got bit by the word processor
Man Smallhorses I don’t know if I should laugh or cry, dude we should be sitting in a bar having a drink. You have an in-depth opinion on all my opinions. lol…….. Come on you know that the star that you described that was supposedly their when you were born was just the light from the star that would explode sometime in the future, not the star.
Your references to the weather and all this valuable info. sure didn’t do as much for weather forecasting in the hundreds of years before weather satellites as the weather satellites have done in the past 20 years. Your insights into the Aero Space industries are great, and what I was getting at about the poverty thing had to due with the field of endeavor their in. They look up a lot and think of other worlds while I don’t. I look around and see the poverty on this planet.
Now for the Philanthropic work, I create Jobs for people so they can feed their families and keep a roof over their heads. My thoughts on how to end poverty is to teach them to feed themselves, I’m a designer inventor and if things go my way I will be fat with cash and I will be able to spread the wealth some day.
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Smallhorses
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Nope, you are!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wont
If I'd meant "won't" I'd have written "won't", but then the sentence makes absolutely no sense. "Wont" is a real word, which in the context of that sentence makes perfect sense.
So you don't agree that weather satellites can provide much greater storm tracking information about hurricane paths and landfall estimates than say, no forewarning at all that was around 100 years ago?
We don't have any control of the weather as yet, and I'm only hypothesising that we ever will, but it's more likely to come about from the study of the planet from above than it is from any number of men tinkering away in their garages.
The problem with "spreading the cash" is that it rarely ends up where it's needed. Many people think they're doing good by donating to help poverty, but when the donations are being siphoned away by the corrupt governments and criminals in the places they're being sent to, they're doing nothing to help as they were intended to.
So you create jobs for people, which earns them a living, which puts food on their tables and a roof over their heads, and they avoid poverty.
NASA creates jobs for people, which earns them a living, which puts food on their tables and a roof over their heads, and they avoid poverty.
So do thousands of companies that supply and manufacture or use & interpret the data generated by gazing outward into the cosmos.
I'm failing to see why an outward looking philosophy isn't viable.
We've already seen how the "everyone should be treated equally" philosophy works, it's great in theory, but when Communism is applied to government it fails, once again due to corruption.
If you could invent a way to prevent corruption that truly works, then you'd be onto a winner, and would have (or not have 'cos you'd be distributing it evenly) all the wealth you'd desire!
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Great posts Nick, and it's always fun being called out for typos, especially when you were right in the first place
I can't believe the short-sightedness of some people. Astronomy has, over the centuries, transformed our lives and will continue to do so for as long as people are 'stupid' enough to do it. Once again, it seems that some people take technological advancement and scientific knowledge so much for granted, as if it turns up out of thin air and without any effort, which is a pretty astonishing attitude.
As for the value of astronomy to our day to day lives, what about climate change? There's one single issue where astronomy is playing and will continue to play a crucial role (both in measuring the activity of the sun, the influence of cosmic rays, and the monitoring of the Earth from space), and it's an issue that will affect every economy in the world (and every person on the planet), one way or another. There is also the small matter of testing General Relativity and other fundamental physical processes that can't otherwise be tested on Earth. A firm understanding of GR has already led to the advent of satellite-based technologies, which have doubtless been of massive importance to economic development.
But apart from GPS, satellites, climate change, physics, cool wallpapers, forewarning of asteroid impacts, understanding our place in the universe, discovering other planets (and potential habitats and resources for our species), probing the possibility of life elsewhere in the cosmos, monitoring solar activity, monitoring Earth's weather systems, facilitating space exploration, providing amateur astronomers with something to do at night, aiding global economic development and tackling poverty, WHAT has astronomy ever done for us?
I can't believe the short-sightedness of some people. Astronomy has, over the centuries, transformed our lives and will continue to do so for as long as people are 'stupid' enough to do it. Once again, it seems that some people take technological advancement and scientific knowledge so much for granted, as if it turns up out of thin air and without any effort, which is a pretty astonishing attitude.
As for the value of astronomy to our day to day lives, what about climate change? There's one single issue where astronomy is playing and will continue to play a crucial role (both in measuring the activity of the sun, the influence of cosmic rays, and the monitoring of the Earth from space), and it's an issue that will affect every economy in the world (and every person on the planet), one way or another. There is also the small matter of testing General Relativity and other fundamental physical processes that can't otherwise be tested on Earth. A firm understanding of GR has already led to the advent of satellite-based technologies, which have doubtless been of massive importance to economic development.
But apart from GPS, satellites, climate change, physics, cool wallpapers, forewarning of asteroid impacts, understanding our place in the universe, discovering other planets (and potential habitats and resources for our species), probing the possibility of life elsewhere in the cosmos, monitoring solar activity, monitoring Earth's weather systems, facilitating space exploration, providing amateur astronomers with something to do at night, aiding global economic development and tackling poverty, WHAT has astronomy ever done for us?
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It was the light from the star that had exploded sometime in the past. Thirteen years after he was born, the star exploded from the point of view of the Earth (SN designation means "supernova" or, in the vernacular, "exploding star"). Since SN1987A is 168,000 light years distant, it had already exploded in the 166th Millennium BC, not in the future.
Or, simply, when he was born, it had already exploded but the light from the explosion hadn't reached us yet. And this is about as dramatic an example of a disproof of your statement as you can get:
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What astronomy has done for us is even more basic than satellites, GPS, and whatnot.
Anybody that wears glasses should thank astronomers. They're the ones who learned to grind and polish glass.
Anybody who uses a clock or a calendar to measure time should thank an astronomer. They're the ones who figured out how to indicate time by observation of things in the sky.
Anybody who knows when to plant or harvest crops should thank an astronomer. They're the ones who figured out that the Earth revolves around the sun, and that its axis is tilted, causing our seasons. They also figured out, from the sky, how to tell which season is upon us at the moment.
Anybody that wears glasses should thank astronomers. They're the ones who learned to grind and polish glass.
Anybody who uses a clock or a calendar to measure time should thank an astronomer. They're the ones who figured out how to indicate time by observation of things in the sky.
Anybody who knows when to plant or harvest crops should thank an astronomer. They're the ones who figured out that the Earth revolves around the sun, and that its axis is tilted, causing our seasons. They also figured out, from the sky, how to tell which season is upon us at the moment.
01GTP
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A little insight to what the space program has offered.
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
