Brake balance

[peter_vod69]

I can't believe I didn't think to say this earlier, something I've always known. Put simply, think of it like allocating the tyre's available grip. Let's say, by complete random out of the air numbers, the front tyres allocate 70% of their total available grip to braking, and the rears 50% of their available grip to braking (while braking), at a brake balance of 5/5, which would actually= 100% available stopping power from the brakes themselves. By moving that bias towards the rear, say now the front uses 60% of its grip for braking as does the rear, then the front tyres now have more available grip for turning (40% of its available grip) which means the front tyres can bite into the corner better. That's why the brake balance works the way it does.

Repost.

(I said exactly the same thing a couple of pages ago)

 

[D0wNFoRc3_]

I can't believe I didn't think to say this earlier, something I've always known. Put simply, think of it like allocating the tyre's available grip. Let's say, by complete random out of the air numbers, the front tyres allocate 70% of their total available grip to braking, and the rears 50% of their available grip to braking (while braking), at a brake balance of 5/5, which would actually= 100% available stopping power from the brakes themselves. By moving that bias towards the rear, say now the front uses 60% of its grip for braking as does the rear, then the front tyres now have more available grip for turning (40% of its available grip) which means the front tyres can bite into the corner better. That's why the brake balance works the way it does.

This is the friction circle yes???

 

[Zuel]

Yes Down Force but be warned as I said before setup up your car for racing. No slidding/drifting, tire smoking or over toe in and out. GT5 will really test your driving skills. GT5P in a gamers demo that's why some many people are going fast some way to fast for the cars they are driving. Also remember the Power Points system wont be in GT5 so you'll have the limts of the car to take in. If you are fast or getting faster in GT5P doesn't mean you'll be that fast in GT5. Alot of people will find that out and yes they'll try to find a way to get that speed back but they wont. Tire wear and heat will be in full force in GT5.

 

[Blitz187]

...GT5 will really test your driving skills. GT5P in a gamers demo that's why some many people are going fast some way to fast for the cars they are driving. Also remember the Power Points system wont be in GT5 so you'll have the limts of the car to take in. If you are fast or getting faster in GT5P doesn't mean you'll be that fast in GT5. Alot of people will find that out and yes they'll try to find a way to get that speed back but they wont. Tire wear and heat will be in full force in GT5.

Now I understand the tire wear thing, but where did you get the info that the PP system is not going to be in GT5, source please? and how do you suppose people that are fast now wont be fast in GT5??? Tire wear will add some complications yes, but I still dont see why people that are fast in GT5 wont be as fast in GT5??? Its not like the physics are going to get a major overhaul because they spent the last 1.5 years getting the physics right with the updates to GT5....

 

[clacksman]

Also remember the Power Points system wont be in GT5 so you'll have the limts of the car to take in.

Source?

As I've said before, the people figuring out speed now will likely figure out speed in GT5. If the way or ways to generate low lap times is different, that'll get learned pretty quickly.

 

[Zuel]

The source is the interview he gave to an automotive journalist after E3. He says some of them areas of GT5 mobile and GT5 are shared. Plus if you look at the screen shot of the setup page for GT5 you clearly see the PP system is no longer there. And yes ways will be found to get at speed quickly but it won’t hold water. With KY also staying we’ll get a number of tire brand to choose from which in turn means we’ll have tire heat and wear. This also means the people that are going blazingly fast lap after lap won’t be that fast any more because they’ll use up the tire before the end of the second lap.

First interview after E3
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/

 

[Blitz187]

The source is the interview he gave to an automotive journalist after E3. He says some of them areas of GT5 mobile and GT5 are shared. Plus if you look at the screen shot of the setup page for GT5 you clearly see the PP system is no longer there. And yes ways will be found to get at speed quickly but it won’t hold water. With KY also staying we’ll get a number of tire brand to choose from which in turn means we’ll have tire heat and wear. This also means the people that are going blazingly fast lap after lap won’t be that fast any more because they’ll use up the tire before the end of the second lap.

Ok, again I ask for the source... if you look at the other threads, people who claim stuff or have read stuff about GT5 put down the source so everyone else can see it and add some validity to their statements... You just state stuff and think people will believe you.... but it doesnt quite work that way... People come to this site for info and if people just start blabbing about stuff without a source or any credibility, nasty rumors will get started etc. etc. SO again, Im not saying youre lying I would just like to read this source for myself because it sounds interesting... If there's no PP system how can you compete against each other online in different cars?!?!?!

Edit: And it BETTER not be that article from Import Tuner that caused all the fuss a while back...

Edit2: Thanks Zuel! I'm going to read now

 

[Zuel]

Was in edit sorry and here the other a few hours later.
http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6211043/talking-gran-turismo-psp-with-kazunori-yamauchi?tag=top_stories;title;4

Edite1: I'm not going to repost the GT5 shots due to there already on GT Planets front page.

 

[D0wNFoRc3_]

ive read this forum for a good while now, i had a few times from the gt4 days with D0wNFoRc3 without the underscore, where i was impressed by my own times, but even then, people that used this forum were faster than me. eg holl01, and now, with the diff physics, he is still faster, and by a fair bit. even when tyre wear comes in, and the "perfected' physics" people say will be in GT5, the faster people are still going to be the faster people. Race distance might come into it, but i doubt it will make that much of a difference.
Ive heard the saying "good drivers adapt" and i beleive this will apply to GT5.
Its no fluke that they are fast in gt4 and gt5

Us folk just have to accept that and enjoy the game.

having said that this thread helped me improve my z06 time from 2:04 to 2:00.xxx
still not in the league of those winning races that i raced recently

 

[JerseyBoy85ss]

does anyone here drive with no ABS??
And if so does anyone find it faster?

I drive with no abs and did a 1.56.7 earlier this morning with the tune clacksman posted but i wouldn't say it's faster i just refuse to use assists even it is only at 1. But thats a whole different conversation. But i do see were abs set at 1 would be faster.

 

[Zuel]

Yes all of us will adapt to the new aspect of GT5 some of faster than others. I’m a fast driver my time on Suzuka around 1:45 to 2:00 pending on car and I only roll on R1 tires. I’m speaking of the drivers that use the PP system as well have some really funky set ups to get crazy time and speeds. Putting sport tires or n1 tires on a powerful race car knowing that they wont melt away on you is not they way to go. Think back to the first time we got tire wear and heat in GT. Everyone or most people stated it was hard for them to set their cars on sport and n1 tires in races due to they over heated with in a lap or two. And found it more challenging to set cars with race tires for long runs because they couldn’t find that perfect balance. I spent hours on weekend setting my cars for the long endurance races and I found that perfect balance. If I remember right only a few people were able to run 25 to 30 laps on r1 tires. I was one of the first one to run more than 52 laps on r1 tires on Le-Mas I was the first to reach 45 laps on r1s. I’m not down playing any one I just feel it will take them longer to get up to speed due to they moved away from the true aspect of racing. You and everything on your car will have limits and lot of people forgot about that I think. That the point I was trying to get across.


Also including damage will greatly slow people down becuase they'll have to factor in that aspect.

 

[D0wNFoRc3_]

But these extra factors are going to slow everyone down, not just the fast people. Sorry, but it sounds to me like you think only the people who are fast will be affected by these things. Like they are using an unfair advantage or something at the moment. MOst of the people i have raced online that are fast due to tuning or whatever factor, seem to have rather high time trial times aswell.

 

[wnffe]

Hopefully this will happen.
PD,make one Simulation race.Only for wheel(s),clutch,incar view and ABS 0.That will tell you much about the level where consol gamers are?Are there any others than us 3.

Make it 4 then. Never liked GT's ABS.

 

[seinfeld]

if you disable the abs, what has come clear to me is no matter how much rear bias you decrese I have it on 1 and front on 4 I still get massive rear locking, so I put both on 10 and run abs on level 1 and it never locks

 

[peter_vod69]

Erm - hate to break it to you guys, but these days nearly all cars have ABS as standard, so why would a real "Simulation" mode be more realistic if it were turned off?

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

When you start TT lap in Suzuka there's a camera shot that lets you see the wheels perfectly. What I like to do is run across that camera angle with ABS off and test to see if my wheels are locking up at the same time, then I watch it in replay. I don't turn on the chicane I use the runoff area. Oh and make sure your car is in neutral or else you'll get the wrong reading on the drive tires. The goal is to maximize the braking grip on the front and rear tires. So far it has worked out for me. I'm able to brake deeper into the corners, and the car feels neutral (no oversteer/understeer) under braking.

 

[Stotty]

Tyre wear will benefit the very fastest drivers, not hinder them.

To go really fast you need to be smooth. Sliding though understeer or oversteer or wheelspin is what destroys tyres, and faster drivers avoid sliding as it slows them down. That's why they are faster - they have more of the tyres grip working, more of the time.

Looking at the divisions at GT Planet for exmple, I'd expect the D1 drivers to get proportionaly faster when/if tyre wear is part of the on-line experience. I think you'll see the biggest changes in D2 and D3, where the smoother drivers in those divisions will gain a big advantage, and those who currently manage to be quick through overdriving the car will lose out.

 

[tHeMaZdAMaN]

Changing the brake balance has no effect on brake strength, the front pads/rotors are still bigger than the rear no matter what setting you have. Brake balance IMO changes the sensitivity.

So true. But guess who had to learn this the hard way?

Have been tryin to tune for the last few days to see if my lack of pace online is due to my driving or my bad setups. Anywho, I tried what little i knew and still sucked so i came on here and checked some other peoples tunes. The majority of the tunes i noticed, no matter what car, mr, ff, etc, the brake balance was set so the front brakes are less than the back brakes. My understanding is that you should have stronger brake force at the front as most of the braking is done by the front wheels, and seeing as the car lurches forward while braking the back becomes lighter so if you have stronger brake balance at the back it becomes alot easier to lock the back wheels. So I generally tune the front brakes about 2 or 3 points stronger than the back. Have I completely got this wrong?

So, once again, I don't have this game, but Paulie is right. The brake balance doesn't affect the strength of the brakes. I have played enough to know. But the first thing I did was buy stonger brakes. prefferably the racing kind.

Erm, as much as possible you should brake in a straight line - any braking you do whilst cornering will not be (potentially at least) as effective. Google "Friction Circle" for a better understanding of how it works, but basically the more grip you are using to brake, the less there is left over to turn and vise-versa. Same goes for acceleration.

And the reason most cars have the brakes biased towards the front is because of weight transfer. As soon as you hit the brakes, the weight of the car shifts forward and leans harder on the front suspension, meaning more grip for the front tyres and less for the rears.

You know, this is my biggest issue! I always seem to brake halfway into the corner to give myself a push in front of the AI, but it almost never works.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Looking at the divisions at GT Planet for exmple, I'd expect the D1 drivers to get proportionaly faster when/if tyre wear is part of the on-line experience.

I also think that people in the lower divisions (like myself) will get proportionally slower because of the same reasons.

 

[Paulie]

I also think that people in the lower divisions (like myself) will get proportionally slower because of the same reasons.

I probably man handle my cars too much, too much of a muscle car driver so my tyre wear is not something I'm expecting to be great either- as if I wasn't slow enough in Div.2 already.