Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

[baldgye]

The whole point of the vote is that it's a leap of faith.

No it wasn’t. This is a lie.
We where told as fact that the U.K. would be better off without the EU both economically and socially. Economists and people working in finance repeatedly said this isn’t true and were branded as part of ‘project fear’.

There wasn’t a giant red bus saying ‘trust me lads’...

 

[baldgye]

I wasn't alive but my parents by all accounts had a great time. My statement comes from the irrational doom and gloom statement which proceeded it. I'm pretty sure WWII had a better chance of 'destroying the country' than Brexit.

So, you know nothing of the 70’s because you weren’t born, but are able to then be sure about qualifying how bad the Second World War was and compare it to a no-deal Brexit?

Which, unfortunately means I have to ask another question, where you alive during World War Two?

 

[Robin]

So, you know nothing of the 70’s because you weren’t born, but are able to then be sure about qualifying how bad the Second World War was and compare it to a no-deal Brexit?

Which, unfortunately means I have to ask another question, where you alive during World War Two?

Your joking right, no one knows about the hardships of WWII because they weren't there?! Must have missed all those school lessons, thousands of documentaries, articles and films then! Surprised "The 70's" doesn't seem to get quite the same attention in history!

 

[Liquid]

Then nothing ever moves forward, most leaders for example are elected because people want a change, it might not always go well.

Wrong. Change isn't always a leap of faith. Change can be redressing imbalances based on logic and justice to eliminate injustice and unfairness; the abolition of capital punishment, equalisation of the age of consent for homosexuals and expansion of the electoral franchise were all steps forward but not leaps of faith.

And I accept that other things such as the introduction of the welfare system, founding of the police service and reclassification of the state school system were, depending on opinion, all risks to some extent but those were calculated risks. It wasn't a leap of faith, something done just to find out whether it was worth it or not.

You can't boil Brexit and decisions like it down to "Well we don't really know what will happen so let's find out". That isn't the way to do things and of all the things, a country's future is arguably the most critical decision of all definitely should not be undertaken with such an ill-thought out approach.

 

[baldgye]

Your joking right, no one knows about the hardships of WWII because they weren't there?! Must have missed all those school lessons, thousands of documentaries, articles and films then! Surprised "The 70's" doesn't seem to get quite the same attention in history!

I knew/know of the hardships and what the UK was like in the 1970's and I wasn't there... perhaps when pushing for a non-EU UK you should perhaps look at how the UK was before it entered and why indeed it entered at all.

 

[DK]

So, let me get this straight: Brexit must proceed because of The Will of Dacre, Farage, Putin, Bannon et al the People, but Theresa May's premiership needs to be derailed because of...?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Temporarily. After that it might get better or it might get worse, as staying in the EU could have done.

I take it you're lucky enough that the vote alone hasn't already had a direct financial or personal impact on you, your loved ones or your business yet?

 

[baldgye]

I take it you're lucky enough that the vote alone hasn't already had a direct financial or personal impact on you, your loved ones or your business yet?

God The economy works in mysterious ways, that’s what faith is all about

 

[Touring Mars]

A snap Telegraph poll of 'who should be Tory leader?' puts Theresa May in 3rd place on 7%, Dominic Raab in 2nd on 17%, and Boris Johnson in 1st on 50%...

I wish I had taken @Dotini's advice and invested in popcorn futures...

 

[Tired Tyres]

My money is on May to win by a KO in the 3rd.

Split decision on points. With one judge missing the first 6 rounds. Clearly.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Interesting analysis from CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/11/uk/brexit-latest-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html

 

[baldgye]

Interesting analysis from CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/11/uk/brexit-latest-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html

It might be funny if it wasn't so terrifying.

indeed

A snap Telegraph poll of 'who should be Tory leader?' puts Theresa May in 3rd place on 7%, Dominic Raab in 2nd on 17%, and Boris Johnson in 1st on 50%...

I wish I had taken @Dotini's advice and invested in popcorn futures...

 

[Robin]

Wrong. Change isn't always a leap of faith. Change can be redressing imbalances based on logic and justice to eliminate injustice and unfairness; the abolition of capital punishment, equalisation of the age of consent for homosexuals and expansion of the electoral franchise were all steps forward but not leaps of faith.

Correction, it's meant to be about those things but so as long as there are PEOPLE actioning these 'imbalances' there is always the chance that it won't go as people had hoped, so it is a leap of faith in that you can never know if the process towards something will be carried out properly by the people tasked to action them. Also 'unfairness and logic' is a relative, you are basing it on the fact that you think everyone thinks the same, that those things are clear cut right or wrong.

I take it you're lucky enough that the vote alone hasn't already had a direct financial or personal impact on you, your loved ones or your business yet?

Well seeing as I'm a person who receives and spends money it has affected me like everyone else. How on earth would I somehow be immune to the effects of Brexit?

A snap Telegraph poll of 'who should be Tory leader?' puts Theresa May in 3rd place on 7%, Dominic Raab in 2nd on 17%, and Boris Johnson in 1st on 50%...

Suprised Mogg isn't in the running, would have thought he would be in the top 3. He actually said this today on the radio,

Speaking on TalkRadio, the arch-Brexiteer said: “I was in a taxi yesterday. The taxi driver said to me, which I thought was a brilliant point, that when he voted he didn’t vote for a deal or no deal. He voted to Leave. And that is what he expects to happen, and I think that’s the view of the majority of the British people."

In light of Mr Juncker’s refusal to renegotiate the terms of withdrawal, Mr Rees-Mogg continued:

“The thing is there’s always another choice and that is we leave without the exit deal. We don’t pay them £35billion, fine - if that’s their position, we don’t pay them the money. We leave, we trade with the rest of the world on world trade terms already."

"We trade with the EU on those terms and unless they decide to give us a punishment Brexit - which I happen to think is unlikely because we have a £95billion trade deficit with them, so it’s in their financial interest not to -if they follow international law the problems that have been prophecised are phantom problems."

"The world will carry on, business will carry on and that’s the alternative and the EU will have to face up to that.”

 

[baldgye]

Correction, it's meant to be about those things but so as long as there are PEOPLE actioning these 'imbalances' there is always the chance that it won't go as people had hoped, so it is a leap of faith

leap of faith
noun

1. an act of believing in or attempting something whose existence or outcome cannot be proved or known

Why are you trying to redefine definitions?

 

[Robin]

leap of faith
noun

1. an act of believing in or attempting something whose existence or outcome cannot be proved or known

Why are you trying to redefine definitions?

Thank you Google.

You cannot prove that a person actioning something won't have ulterior motives, wont be corrupt, will do the job to the best of their ability, fight for the outcome that is just and fair. I think you don't actually understand what I wrote, humans and therefore the things they undertake, are not infallible therefore are always inherently a leap of faith. Getting on the bus is a leap of faith.

 

[baldgye]

Thank you Google.

You cannot prove that a person actioning something won't have ulterior motives, wont be corrupt, will do the job to the best of their ability, fight for the outcome that is just and fair. I think you don't actually understand what I wrote, humans and therefore the things they undertake, are not infallible therefore are always inherently a leap of faith. Getting on the bus is a leap of faith.

I understood completely, your trying to define every single human action as a 'leap of faith'.

 

[UKMikey]

Getting on the bus is a leap of faith.

You can get off the bus again if it's the wrong one.

 

[baldgye]

According to Sky News;

A total of 164 Tory MPs now claim they will back Theresa May in tonight's confidence vote, according to our latest tally. The PM needs to get the backing of 158 of her colleagues to win.

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479


One feels its going to be a close one;

Whip restored to Tory MP who was suspended

Andrew Griffiths has had the Conservative whip restored, Sky News understands.
The married Burton MP was suspended from the party in July for sending up to 2,000 sexual messages to two female constituents, the Sunday Mirror reported at the time.
Retaking the Conservative whip means he will be able to vote in tonight's confidence vote.
Griffiths has confirmed to Sky News he will back the PM.

via the same live story/blog link above

 

[Tired Tyres]

According to Sky News;


https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479


One feels its going to be a close one;

via the same live story/blog link above

Close is as bad as a loss. Only a decisive win will see her stay on.

If she goes ....... Johnson. 🤬

 

[baldgye]

Close is as bad as a loss. Only a decisive win will see her stay on.

If she goes ....... Johnson. 🤬

The accused sex offenders are on a roll!



Though, he does live with the 2012 Westminster Dog of the Year

 

[UKMikey]

I take it his lawsuit against the Tory party has now been withdrawn.

I thought this reply was funny,

 

[MatskiMonk]

I understood completely, your trying to define every single human action as a 'leap of faith'.

Sometimes getting on the bus is a leap of faith...

Well seeing as I'm a person who receives and spends money it has affected me like everyone else

.. if the insinuation is that we've all been hit the same way then I'd probably assume you haven't actually seen any effect yet.

 

[Robin]

.. if the insinuation is that we've all been hit the same way then I'd probably assume you haven't actually seen any effect yet.

So how have you been especially effected then? Given that we are currently still in the EU and all that.

 

[Touring Mars]

Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence against her this evening by 200 - 117 votes..

Despite this win, Jacob Rees-Mogg continues to demand that May resigns, on the basis that Theresa May can no longer command a majority in the Commons.

 

[Robin]

Mogg does have a point about her not being able to command a majority in the commons. She pulled a vote because she was going to heavily loose and that cannot be ignored. She has survived in power but it will be pretty pointless if she can't put anything through the house. So something with her approach will have to change in some respect.

 

[baldgye]

Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence against her this evening by 200 - 117 votes..

Despite this win, Jacob Rees-Mogg continues to demand that May resigns, on the basis that Theresa May can no longer command a majority in the Commons.

Surprised by the majority, unsurprised by the result. Mogg is an intellectual peasant, he shouts garbage and falsehoods from the sidelines but is utterly inept when it comes to anything meaningful.

So how have you been especially effected then? Given that we are currently still in the EU and all that.

An amazing, gobsmacking post.

 

[Robin]

An amazing, gobsmacking post.

And one not aimed at you but you commented anyway... because you know, that's what you do.

 

[baldgye]

And one not aimed at you but you commented anyway... because you know, that's what you do.

Yes, because this is a public forum.


@Touring Mars responding to Mogg’s point;

 

[Robin]

Yes, because this is a public forum.

And it was a personal question asking how someone was being affected individually, hence the word 'you' in the sentence.

 

[Touring Mars]

@Touring Mars responding to Mogg’s point;

Given that the vote was limited to Conservative MPs only, it's a pretty stupid comparison. I reckon Rees-Mogg's point stands.