Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum


Results are only viewable after voting.
The Lib Dems appear to believe that they could be power-brokers for Labour if (and it is a big if) they can persuade Corbyn to ditch his pro-Brexit stance. The question is why? May be they are just being realistic and know that they are (very) unlikely to win an election outright - but it is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy when they have (in the last couple of days) openly stated that they would be open to a coalition with Labour if it would bring about a halt to Brexit. Haven't they learned a thing?
 
I find it weird that, on our poll above, the only people who prefer May's deal to No Deal are those who voted Remain in the first place.
 
What a ****ing mess we are in.

The vast majority of MP’s should be dragged out of parliament, lined up against a wall and shot.

Fundamentally, May never had a chance of a positive outcome – how could she? With the country and parliament split pretty much down the middle there’s no outcome that will keep both sides happy. She’s holding the poisoned chalice.

What pisses me off the most is the behaviour of the Labour party, and in particular, Corbyn. At a time when parliament needs to find the best solution for the country and economy as a whole, he continues to take no principled stance on Brexit (has he ever?), yet continues to try and use the situation to destabilise the Government and leverage an election… which would be even more catastrophic for the economy. He makes my skin crawl and my blood boil in equal measure.

MP’s need to do what’s best for the economy NOW… or take it back to electorate for a 2nd referendum on a hard Brexit.
 
or take it back to electorate for a 2nd referendum on a hard Brexit.

This seems like the sensible solution ... except what happens if it is a narrowly split vote to Remain?

Whenever the electorate is basically evenly split, as you see in the US, the appropriate thing IMO is to proceed with caution & an attempt at consensus, rather than ramming through measures that are unpopular with approximately half the electorate.

Canada has done that quite successfully in the decades since I arrived here from the England. Although the parliamentary system is basically the same as Britain's, the particular make-up of Canadian political parties, & the split between federal & provincial powers, has led to a succession of reasonably sensible compromises. Which is what makes Canadian politics so boring. 👍
 
I'm still torn between "Remain - May's Deal" and "Remain - No Deal" in the poll above. One thing I am certain of, however, is that the Brexit vote ought to be respected and the UK's future inside the EU is now untenable. I don't believe a second referendum will make things any clearer, and could likely just make matters even worse (if that is even possible!).

May's Deal is a compromise, but the sad truth is that it is only the 'Withdrawal Agreement', and as such it is not even close to the finished article - and that for me is the biggest problem. The UK Government, Parliament and people are being expected to believe that the final deal (which will be thrashed out over the coming months and possibly years) will be good for the UK in the long term when the EU have repeatedly made it clear (through their actions and words) that they wish for the opposite. Meanwhile, the Withdrawal Agreement places permanent, legally binding constraints on the UK before these crucial negotiations have even started - I personally believe that to be ridiculously unfair and is a virtual guarantee that the UK cannot possibly benefit from Brexit under those terms. Meanwhile, the Withdrawal Agreement will mean that the UK Government cannot change tack if things start going against them, because the Withdrawal Agreement will be bound by international law that will take precedence in any conflict with whatever laws the UK might decide to enact. May's Deal is probably best for those who want the UK to remain as close to the EU as possible, but the Withdrawal Agreement hands the future of the country to the EU on a plate, and I can perfectly understand why so many (including myself) are extremely skeptical (if not downright dismissive) of that prospect.

No Deal will be carnage and it will undoubtedly hurt those who can least afford it the most - it will also mean a prolonged period of uncertainty and animosity, and could well be a trigger for a wider crisis in the Eurozone/EU that could end up seeing the UK blamed for all the EU's ills (which would be highly ironic). The Eurozone is a powderkeg that the UK has done well to steer clear of, but a No Deal Brexit could be the spark that sets off a crisis that brings down the Eurozone - little wonder then that the UK government are keen to avoid that possibility (though there are undoubtedly many who would rejoice at this outcome). But - perhaps crucially - No Deal would, at the very least, hand control back to the UK in a wide range of matters... it would make a trade deal with the EU much more difficult to achieve, but on the other hand, it would also mean that the UK could, if it wants to, avoid all/any aspects of a trade deal that it doesn't like or want, which may be otherwise be forced upon us due to the pathetically weak negotiating position the UK will have under Theresa May's deal.
 
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Is there a way that your political clowns just throw their hands in the air, scream WE GIVE UP! and we all just pretend that this never happened?

With this and the Cheeto on the other side of the pond I'm having way too much popcorn and the salt is doing stuff to my insides.
 
No because then egos will be bruised. :rolleyes:

Pah.

As if there is anything positive left to say about their shenanigans, there's no face left to save.

Just give up, play dumb and pretend that you have no idea what everyone's talking about.
 
Is there a way that your political clowns just throw their hands in the air, scream WE GIVE UP! and we all just pretend that this never happened?

There have been times where I really... really... really wish they would. But as @Liquid said, egos. :rolleyes:

What's left of them anyway...
 
How many Pro EU Brits here would vote for the Lib Dems if a snap election is called?
The ones with more than two brain cells. Unfortunately that won't win a majority. :ouch:

I'm getting tired of MP's replying to the threat of hard brexit with "there is no majority for that in Parliament" I have a feeling they will keep on saying it right up until 29th March. Idiots. :banghead:

And no. You can't change the date. Do that and no one will ever take you seriously ever again. What is it May did with this particular vote again....

At least vote to retract Article 50 then surrender their seats in the house, NEVER to stand for election again. That is something they can do.
 
My favourite Brexit moment so far... Oxbridge-educated, old-Etonian, former Government minister, and MP Alexander Boris dePfeffel Johnson says that if there is this attempted coup by MPs to thwart Brexit or if parliament attempts in any way to withdraw Article 50, "...people will feel betrayed, and I think they will feel that there has been a great conspiracy by the deep state of the UK - the people who really run the country."

:lol:
 
The UK Government's 'Withdrawal Agreement' with the EU has been voted down by the UK Parliament by a vote of 432 - 202, a huge majority of 230.

The Prime Minister now has just three days to respond with a 'Plan B'...
 
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That will be hard brexit then. Since there is no deal now.

Plan B in three days after two and a half years. That's a good one.
 
If Labour/Corbyn didn't have such a pathetic 'Plan B', they may have stood a chance of winning - but they don't.

I'm listening to the session on radio only; no video. The roars of laughter when Corbyn suggested his own plans was staggering.
 
It's likely the government will survive the vote, her survival in the no confidence vote pretty much already predicts that the this will go roughly the same way. Will be a no deal now as May's terrible deal is finally history and the EU will almost certainly not budge an inch on any new deal.
 
So …

The PM's plan is rubished by one of the parties to the deal.
but
The Oposition plan is unnacceptable by the other party of the deal.

Also …

The PM loses the most important vote in her political career and lifetime. But doesn't quit.

And the very same Parliament that voted her deal down will most probably vote for her to keep being PM.

I think the Italians and their traditionally confusing Parliament and political shenanigans just got one-upped
 
I'm listening to the session on radio only; no video. The roars of laughter when Corbyn suggested his own plans was staggering.
I've been watching BBC Parliament all day (yay unemployment!) and, although I have tried hard to like Jeremy Corbyn, I can't help but think he is a total clown. I also can't understand why he can't understand what has been told to him - his argument on Sunday was quite literally 'The EU don't stick to their own rules, so they will be flexible when it comes to Brexit'... sorry, but what Brexit negotiations has this man been watching over the last two years??! Yes, the EU have shown some flexibility... but, crucially, never, not even once, has the EU been 'flexible' or compromised in any way when it has come to any one of their 'red lines'. As such, his ideas are a non-starter.

A key point is that no matter what anyone proposes in terms of the final Brexit outcome, a Withdrawal Agreement (which will always require a backstop when it comes to the Irish border) is required first - even Labour's (impossible) plan that would ultimately not require a hard border in Ireland would still require a backstop in the event that the trade deal negotiations fell through.... which they almost certainly would given that it would require the EU to break its red lines, which it will never do. But given that most Labour constituencies and Jeremy Corbyn are pro-Brexit, it seems ludicrous that they can't understand these points.
 
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She'll win that though. she lost this because half her party doesn't like the deal one way or the other, but they'll stand behind her in the event of another vote of confidence.
As will the DUP, who, ironically, voted against May's deal tonight despite the fact that it would have left Northern Ireland in a ridiculously advantageous position.
 
But given that Labour voters and Jeremy Corbyn are actually pro-Brexit, it seems ludicrous that they can't understand these points.

While Corbyn is certainly pro-Brexit, I can assure you that labeling all Labour voters as such is a wildly inaccurate and sweeping generalization (and as a card carrying member that has discussed it at enough meeting I can assure you its as divided on this side as the other).

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-maj...bour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/
 
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