Brexit - The UK leaves the EU
- Thread starter Touring Mars
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Danoff
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After reading the summaries of a few of these, it does indeed appear that they are "fake" or distorted views of reality. But also in the sampling that I picked, none of them were outright false either, they were always a misleading representation of a truth (though I'd bet at least one of these has absolutely zero substance to it). Given how misleading it is, I like the characterization of it as "fake" instead of "true but misleading" or simply "technically accurate" (at least in some cases).
But, it's important for everyone to remember that this sort of thing is very susceptible to selective rigor. If you bring an agenda to the discussion, you might call these "fake", and then when you see a similar article distorting the dangers of Brexit you might call those "true" or "technically true" or "true but misleading" instead of "fake".
I give myself license to call things like this "lies" instead of beating around the bush, but then I worry that I'm giving myself a hypocritical escape hatch for my own preferences too.
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- GTP_Famine
I am, but my line of sight from the beach at the end of the street is Hardbakke in Norway.If any of you on the east coast of Britain are available on the 31st, I've tricked the missus into joining me to drive to Zandvoort to wave you guys goodbye, so maybe we can wave at each other.
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- TenEightyOne
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- Dennisch
Good enough!
Right, I'll go down to Spurn and wave. What time GMT?
I'll be there around 14.00 my time so that will be 13.00 GMT.
- 24,005
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
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I know there's the future relationship between the EU and UK and that will be difficult and awkward but in principle that's not entirely dissimilar to EU relations with any other country such as, for example, EU-Ukraine relations, EU-Russia relations or EU-Albania relations.
It's the ignorant temerity (or intentional dog whistle) of the Brexit MEP talking about the UK having no representation within the EU, on EU internal commissions and committees.
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- GTP_Mars
It’s not the future/permanent EU-UK relationship they’re moaning about (although they will also moan about that separately), but the transition period specifically.
Unlike the EU’s relationships with all other non-member states, the UK will be in the uncomfortable position of still being subject to EU law while no longer being represented at any level within all EU political institutions... that’s a BIG difference. As @Scaff points out, though, it is a bit rich for Brexit MEPs to complain too loudly for a variety of reasons, but the fact is that the UK will be in a uniquely awkward position for as long as the transition period lasts, which is why the UK Government (and Brexit supporters in general) are uncomfortable with the whole concept of the transition period.
One doesn’t need to look far to see how this story has been misinterpreted/mischaracterised as ‘Brexit MEP complains about leaving the EU!!1!’ when in fact it is a (much) more legitimate point about the forthcoming period* of being subject to laws without any say in how they are made. It’s actually quite alarming to read many of the comments underneath some of these articles, criticising the Brexit MEP for her apparent stupidity, when it is quite clear that some of the commenters don’t really understand what she is saying.
*Note: The length of the transition period is still not set in stone legally. As it stands, it lasts for 11 months (1 Feb to 31 Dec 2020), but the Withdrawal Agreement allows for the possibility of extension of up to 2 more years (but this needs to be agreed by July 2020). That leaves open the possibility of the UK being subject to EU law (present and future) for a month shy of three years, with no guarantee of a trade deal at any point.
Unlike the EU’s relationships with all other non-member states, the UK will be in the uncomfortable position of still being subject to EU law while no longer being represented at any level within all EU political institutions... that’s a BIG difference. As @Scaff points out, though, it is a bit rich for Brexit MEPs to complain too loudly for a variety of reasons, but the fact is that the UK will be in a uniquely awkward position for as long as the transition period lasts, which is why the UK Government (and Brexit supporters in general) are uncomfortable with the whole concept of the transition period.
One doesn’t need to look far to see how this story has been misinterpreted/mischaracterised as ‘Brexit MEP complains about leaving the EU!!1!’ when in fact it is a (much) more legitimate point about the forthcoming period* of being subject to laws without any say in how they are made. It’s actually quite alarming to read many of the comments underneath some of these articles, criticising the Brexit MEP for her apparent stupidity, when it is quite clear that some of the commenters don’t really understand what she is saying.
*Note: The length of the transition period is still not set in stone legally. As it stands, it lasts for 11 months (1 Feb to 31 Dec 2020), but the Withdrawal Agreement allows for the possibility of extension of up to 2 more years (but this needs to be agreed by July 2020). That leaves open the possibility of the UK being subject to EU law (present and future) for a month shy of three years, with no guarantee of a trade deal at any point.
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Shouldn't be a problem for leave voters.... this isn't really any different to the situation before the vote as far as they are concerned.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The real irony is that we did vote for our representatives before Leave. Now the final legislature is the House of Lords, a place we don't vote for whose members we can't remove.
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- Isle of Wight, UK
I chose a good country to watch this all from.
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- GTP_TheCracker
I'm surprised that Brexit is still news outside of the UK?
To us in the UK it still has a degree of impact on daily life as it's uncertainty has influence on most aspects of it. But to Europe and the wider world, outside of the inner workings of European politics and perhaps anyone directly connected with trade with the UK, i would have thought Brexit would be largely forgotten by now.
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- Dennisch
Seeing how the UK is quite a large economic partner to a lot of us Continentals, it is still in the (financial) news on a pretty much daily basis.
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Gammon, egg and chips would have been far funnier.
I'm sure most nations have an anti-EU contingent that is keen to see how well the UK do, free of the shackles imposed by unelected european bureaucrats and their silly rules and regulations. I'd bet that any positive economic indicators the UK sees after this week will be touted by such people as a reason why their nations should join us in 'taking back control'.
Tired Tyres
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Which is why the EU will leave us to wither on the vine for as long as possible before signing a trade deal.
Dotini
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A Wall Street analyst I just watched on CNBC said that Brexit ranks with the situations in Iran, China and Kashmir in having the potential of becoming a (Black Swan) event that causes serious disruption should it go wrong.
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- GTP_Mars
And not enough (or indeed any!) distance between the beans and the eggs... they could/should have used a couple of sausages as a breakwater.
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@Dennisch In all seriousness, Friday is going to be a tough day for a lot of my closest friends and colleagues, many of whom work in the UK by virtue of our previous membership of the EU. These amazing people have been treated appallingly and are not comforted at all by the ‘reassurances’ they’ve heard from the UK Government... it is, sadly, no laughing matter - yet even they still joke about it because otherwise it would be too depressing for words.
Friday night is going to be very interesting, not least because at 11 pm the UK formally quits the EU... and, by virtue of celebrating no less than 6 birthdays (?!) and 3 new job offers on the same night, the chances of us all being in the pub at 11 pm are 99.9999% (Coronavirus outbreak notwithstanding). I expect the moment will be marked with genuine sadness and a tonne of alcohol - and probably a great deal of anger and irritation too... not a great combo for 11 pm in Glasgow... on a Friday night.
Luckily, all of my friends and pretty much everyone I know in Glasgow is opposed to Brexit, and I think the atmosphere in the pubs on Friday night will be something worth seeing - and yet, paradoxically, it is also something the vast majority in Glasgow don’t want to see (note that EU citizens did not get to vote in the referendum...) With the likely exception of some of Partick’s less salubrious bars (and it has a few), I would imagine that this sentiment will be shared across the city, and indeed across the whole country.
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Meanwhile, here, deep in Toryshire, pretty much everyone in my local will be cheering the success of Supreme Leader Johnson over our European enemies, singing the praises of democracy, and hoping it never actually becomes democratic enough to unseat the blues. I'll probably give it a miss... or alternatively, I could just go along, and play the 1-shot-everytime-someone-says-"I'm not racist but..."-drinking-game... it wouldn't be the first time I'd cleaned 'em out of rum and brandy.
My partner is (also) European as are many of our friends, it's a concern for sure.
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On the whole, a very good effort. 7 on 10. Let's make love.
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It's been shunted from the front pages over here, much to the chagrin of our PM who's seeking re-election next Saturday. For starters, it took attention away from the spiralling cost of living here.
