Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
Regarding Brexit, we are - finally - at the end game. What I wish is that a deal is reached. What I suspect is that a deal will be reached. And I also suspect the deal will be hailed by the UK's Government as a patriotic victory, with the bureaucratic EU having folded on some technicality that is very VERY important. And I suspect the EU politicians will comply, avoiding to gloat on whatever it was that allowed the deal to be reached at last. It's the "British Sausage" scenario (fans of the YM/YPM old TV series should know what this means).

Since some rules will be set on that deal, and since the mere existence of those rules means the need for some EU-inspired regulations regarding production, standards and trade, I also fully expect that the EU and its bureaucracy/rules will remain the main scapegoat for UK's politicians when they fail to deliver on their promises. They've been doing it for a few decades already, they'll keep doing it.

So, (hopefully) nothing much will have been changed (ok, it's true that UK passports, made in France, will be blue), and we all, both in Europe and in the UK (pun intended :D ), will finally be able to get on with the rest of our lives, after such a great period of anguish!
 
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Hun200kmh
Regarding Brexit, we are - finally - at the end game. What I wish is that a deal is reached. What I suspect is that a deal will be reached. And I also suspect the deal will be hailed by the UK's Government as a patriotic victory, with the bureaucratic EU having folded on some technicality that is very VERY important. And I suspect the EU politicians will comply, avoiding to gloat on whatever it was that allowed the deal to be reached at last. It's the "British Sausage" scenario (fans of the YM/YPM old TV series should know what this means).

Since some rules will be set on that deal, and since the mere existence of those rules means the need for some EU-inspired regulations regarding production, standards and trade, I also fully expect that the EU and its bureaucracy/rules will remain the main scapegoat for UK's politicians when they fail to deliver on their promises. They've been doing it for a few decades already, they'll keep doing it.

So, (hopefully) nothing much will have been changed (ok, it's true that UK passports, made in France, will be blue), and we all, both in Europe and in the UK (pun intended :D ), will finally be able to get on with the rest of our lives, after such a great period of anguish!
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Sounds a bit like the best trade deal ever (USMCA) negotiated by Donald J. Trump, which replaced the worst trade deal in history (NAFTA).
 
The UK will be removed from Georgia's visa-free fly list from 31st December. A friend of mine who lives in Tbilisi says that this is going to create a lot of havoc; loads of people will need to leave very soon or be here illegally. Even then, there are very few flights between Georgia and the UK and they're eye-wateringly expensive if you can get one.
 
Liquid
The UK will be removed from Georgia's visa-free fly list from 31st December. A friend of mine who lives in Tbilisi says that this is going to create a lot of havoc; loads of people will need to leave very soon or be here illegally. Even then, there are very few flights between Georgia and the UK and they're eye-wateringly expensive if you can get one.
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Jeez, just explain to them they can pay for travel and relocation using their newly found sovereignty boners. It's not hard, they've been given control back by the electorate.. why are they even asking???





Sorry.. I am of course being absolutely facetious towards people who knew exactly what they voted for, and in doing so, completely and intentional shafted people like your friend.
 
DPD and Parcel Motel suspending collections from virtual NI addresses due to Brexit.

Parcel Motel
As of 31 December, our virtual address services in the UK will be temporarily suspended, until such time as a final Brexit decision has been implemented and our services have been adapted to meet the new requirements. As a result, all parcels crossing the new border between Britain and Ireland will be subject to customs formalities affecting the cost and transit time of your shipment.
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So much for the frictionless border. I just don't see how people thought this was going to end differently.
 
Liquid
We don't want to be treated any differently to the rest of the UK.

:)
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Which is the right view - they're one of the countries occupied by the Crown and so should get equal treatment.

And there should also be a frictionless border between the two countries on Ireland because that's the basis of peace. It's almost as if Brexit was an impossible idea given our commitments to peace instead of war.
 
TenEightyOne
Which is the right view - they're one of the countries occupied by the Crown and so should get equal treatment
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Not when their is huge hypocrisy from Northern Ireland, and the DUP in particular, about wanting to be equal to other parts of the UK yet having its own legal system different to the Westminster it so strangely adores and legislating differently with regards to abortion. That's not equal. It is a huge, gaping hole in the notion of the "union" being comprised of so-called equals.

Specifically for the topic at hand, voting in favour of Brexit on the island of Ireland and expecting to have a seamless border with a single market, EU neighbour yet not having a barrier with Great Britain is a complete impasse. It simply isn't possible and a major case of wanting your cake on the plate and having eaten it too.

Four years. Nothing even remotely close to being sorted.
 
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Liquid
Not when their is huge hypocrisy from Northern Ireland, and the DUP in particular, about wanting to be equal to other parts of the UK yet having its own legal system different to the Westminster it so strangely adores and legislating differently with regards to abortion. That's not equal. It is a huge, gaping hole in the notion of the "union" being comprised of so-called equals.
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Last time opinion was counted the Northern Irish were split about 50/50 between the Republic and the Union. Part of the problem with post-war Irish politics is that the fringes have grown louder and more powerful, that started getting (slowly) fixed after the GFA but strong religious divisions remain. Why wouldn't they have their own legal system? Scotland does, why shouldn't Wales and Northern Ireland? With that said England doesn't even have its own parliament.

Liquid
Specifically for the topic at hand, voting in favour of Brexit on the island of Ireland and expecting to have a seamless border with a single market, EU neighbour yet not having a barrier with Great Britain is a complete impasse.
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Definitely, and that's probably why that country voted to remain.

Liquid
a major case of wanting your cake on the plate and having eaten it too.
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That would definitely describe Northern Irish politics. But it would describe most British politics in general. Just politics actually. With that said Northern Ireland voted against that, it was other countries who voted in favour of that happening to Northern Ireland.

This Brexit is all about sovereignty while ignoring the elements of sovereignty that are inconvenient, i.e. everything not Thames-centric.

Liquid
Four years. Nothing even remotely close to being sorted.
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We haven't yet played Vera Lynn records at high volume from armoured barges off the Calais coast. That's surely only days away and then we'll see Europe crumble.
 
Is it true that the UK shot down the EU's offer to buy the vaccines together and now the UK pays a lot more?
 
Dennisch
Is it true that the UK shot down the EU's offer to buy the vaccines together and now the UK pays a lot more?
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"shot down" :lol: Having got our orders in early and already started vaccinating people, it's an odd time to try that dig! The EU lagged in getting its orders in, so I doubt they got it noticably cheaper overall. Apart from pfizer, the price paid depends mostly on how much support was provided to development of the vaccines, as noted in this Guardian article on the leaked EU prices, so 'per dose' prices don't tell the whole story.
 
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I am pleased that a Belgian minister "accidentally" leaked the price of the vaccine. It means that the pharma :censored:s can't price gouge like they usually would, given that people already know the rough cost of manufacture.

The UK is paying about €16 per vaccine, the EU about €12 per vaccine, according to the internet.
/pinch of salt
 
The Guardian and the BBC are reporting that a trade deal between the EU and UK is now expected to be announced in the next few hours.

Cue Brexiteer whinging to commence immediately after any announcement.

I saw one comment this week which I believe summarises the whole farcical process perfectly... paraphrasing, they said "Boris's strategy is to leave everything until he has no other options left, in the hope that he gets away with his terrible decisions on the basis that there was no other options left".

Boris knows that he needs a deal that will stab Brexiteers in the back... and enrage most of the core Brexit MPs that he relied on to get this far. But in order to avoid a disastrous No Deal, it's likely that any ERG votes that Boris will lose will be more than compensated for by Labour who would likely back a deal rather than guarantee us an 'accidental No Deal'.

Expect to be spectacularly underwhelmed by whatever may be announced later...
 
One of the worries to ensure avoiding no deal has been the threat of Gibraltar joining Schengen and issuing border control between itself and UK. I'm sure there has been immense pressure from many people in many groups to avoid that, not withstanding the Royal Navy.
 
Liquid
I am pleased that a Belgian minister "accidentally" leaked the price of the vaccine. It means that the pharma :censored:s can't price gouge like they usually would, given that people already know the rough cost of manufacture.

The UK is paying about €16 per vaccine, the EU about €12 per vaccine, according to the internet.
/pinch of salt
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Another article from the Telegraph - list price for the pfizer one is $19.20, just under €16 currently. So it's likely that's where the assumed 'UK paid' figure comes from, but rather less likely that we actually paid that. The article notes that the EU was a funder of BioNTech's work, which may have helped reduce the per-dose price, but maybe not the overall per-dose cost once that funding is considered.

More transparency certainly wouldn't go amiss! While pfizer clearly didn't want to accept funding so they could profit bigly, Oxford/Astra Zeneca are providing it at cost - so they get a pass from the name-calling on this occasion :)

I'd say the correct response any such "UK paid more than EU" claims is to either call them out for the baseless point-scoring they are or just outright ignore them :)
 
Hun200kmh
Regarding Brexit, we are - finally - at the end game. What I wish is that a deal is reached. What I suspect is that a deal will be reached. And I also suspect the deal will be hailed by the UK's Government as a patriotic victory, with the bureaucratic EU having folded on some technicality that is very VERY important. And I suspect the EU politicians will comply, avoiding to gloat on whatever it was that allowed the deal to be reached at last. It's the "British Sausage" scenario (fans of the YM/YPM old TV series should know what this means).
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Apparently ... I was right. :D

Brexit Negotiators Reach Outline of Historic Trade Accord - Bloomberg
 
Hun200kmh
Apparently ... I was right. :D

Brexit Negotiators Reach Outline of Historic Trade Accord - Bloomberg
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TBH a lot of that article is based on comments from yesterday... do not underestimate how much going backwards can be done in a day! :lol:

From our point of view, it's promising that it's Riso and not Barnier doing the face-to-face with Frost today... talks apparently progressed quite well while she was standing in for him while he had covid... then went backwards when he returned.

Fingers crossed that everyone hates the deal - that will mean it's reasonably fair :lol:
 
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Various political reporters from the OMG MSM channels are reporting that a deal is all but signed. Pizza was delivered earlier, a sure sign of misidentified entente cordiale before the coup de grace and schadenfreude.

Fishing is a major sticking point, as ever we seemingly want to have our hake and eat it. Or something.
 
Underestimated by his critics yet again, well Boris delivered a deal like he said he would, by all accounts its a pretty amicable deal so hats off to him. Might not be a clean break but at least we haven't caved and have secured what the government like to call the 'red lines'. Lets see how it goes with a commons vote, might still end up being no deal.
 
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