Bring Back The Racing Mod

[DeolTheBeast]

People forget that this is a game and everything is controlled behind the scenes. The game system is likely exactly the same as it was in GT5. All they need to do is add more selections in the "Extreme" portion of the tuning shop. You click on the race group you want to mod to, and the game gives you the downforce and fuel capacity needed, as well as reclassification.

When GT5 was hacked for modding you could see "how the sausage is made' so to speak.

BTW, as mentioned, I made my own GTR 2000 "RM". As you can see, it's everything that would be necessary. It just needs a class to run in, although I suppose I could get up to GR4 pace.

Good point re. GT5 modding ... takes me back to when me and my cousin were modding cars with crazy high HP and powertrain swaps then causing chaos on the TG test track

One day it would be great for things to be "opened up"

 

[Tenacious D]

Ha, that's literally what Sophy is doing 😂

Well, to be specific, Sophy is driving in ways humans can't hope to match - near perfectly. We'd love to see Sophy A.I., as long as it's humanized so we have some chance to do more than admire their distant bumpers.

As for PP matching, I would love to have algorithms which perfectly predicted the lap times of tuned cars matched to within a few tens a second each lap. My own tuning experiments have PP numbers all over the place, car specs the same, with very close lap times. So for right now, in my estimation, video game technology and computing needs some finesse.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, to be specific, Sophy is driving in ways humans can't hope to match - near perfectly. We'd love to see Sophy A.I., as long as it's humanized so we have some chance to do more than admire their distant bumpers.

You can clearly see the current AI drives like people do, especially if you use a Sport Mode Race A with lower ranking players

As for PP matching, I would love to have algorithms which perfectly predicted the lap times of tuned cars matched to within a few tens a second each lap.

The problem is "a lap"....A lap of which track? It will be impossible to have a static setup that works for all tracks. What's needed is a calculation that is based on the track in question, rather than the tune in question.

My own tuning experiments have PP numbers all over the place, car specs the same, with very close lap times. So for right now, in my estimation, video game technology and computing needs some finesse.

The job of a game director, or design director, is to come up with solutions for problems like this. In addition, there is a community that comes up with good ideas. Everyoen else reads the forums and says" Hey, good idea!! Let's try that!" PD doesn't, or at least, they are super slow to do it.

For the above case of PP per track, you simply tune the car and let the AI run a lap. A lap can even be time compressed, so it can be calculated upon entry to the race. Totally achievable. You can even do a macro setting pre race (on the loading of the track), and micro changes (as it is now) once the track is loaded. It may not be perfect, but it would be better.

The thing is, it's completely unnecessary for single player. If a given car is, as an example, 575pp at one track and 625pp with the same settings at another, it doesn't really make much difference to the single player experience. It really makes a difference online though. And, with a week between Sport Mode races, why is this not done? What about for lobbies?

Instead we have "music replay"

 

[dacc10]

One question, by Racing Mod, the OP means: 1-bringing back the ability to RM cars, or 2-just the ability to classify cars already in game, with the existing parts, to a specific (Gr.3 or Gr.4) class?

In the first case: No, an RM takes pretty much as much time to model as a new car (the Gr.3 cars are pretty much that), and if we are only getting 3 cars per update, that would be a terrible idea.

For the second case: why not? Most road cars with tuning/body parts already look suitable atleast for Gr.4. It would be nice to be able to classify most modified road cars as proper Gr.4 cars, as long as they fit the "regulations".

 

[Meythia]

The problem is "a lap"....A lap of which track? It will be impossible to have a static setup that works for all tracks. What's needed is a calculation that is based on the track in question, rather than the tune in question.

The other problem is that BoP and PP are not linked.
Cars on BoP have a PP range of like lowest to highest of 25PP and that seems weird considering both were meant to make cars compete against other cars of roughly the same performance.
2nd then have a look at how cars of the same PP largely vary against other cars of the same PP when you think you made the most of them.
3rd then have a look at how cars of the same BoP class vary.

Both systems doent work too well, though BoP is definitly not as big of a gap as PP is.

Last then, if all cars would have identical perfomance this would just mean they are different in visuals alone and taking away of the part the game tries to be a sim on.

 

[Tenacious D]

For the above case of PP per track, you simply tune the car and let the AI run a lap. A lap can even be time compressed, so it can be calculated upon entry to the race. Totally achievable.

I believe that is exactly what I was getting at. Whatever method PD is using, the engine is doing a rather basic job of it. Not a bad product, but not a good product either. And "our ideas" on that, what would they be? Make the algorithms match real time performance better? Make sure there are no abrupt value jumps? What a thought.

PPs different on different tracks - you're overstating that. There are some considerations. A twisty track like Suzuka requires more camber than those with more sweeping turns or few turns. A car could reach a top speed on a track like Fuji with a long straight of say 170mph, while on most others it might make 165, and on short ones like Tsukuba it might only manage 140. But those are transmission tuning issues, and tranny tuning has been removed from the algorithm because it let us have too much fun with cars like the Tomahawk. Which... so what? But even then, if you tuned a car for Tsukuba versus tuning it for Fuji, the PP difference should be rather small, a few points. Not like the 50-ish point jump you get adding a stage 3 turbo.

This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure we'd all agree the PP system is a good idea. It's just the execution which is a little weak and needs an overhaul. Though Tidgney mentioned in one video that such a thing is working hand in hand with a physics update, and is coming at some point.

 

[05XR8]

That’s another thing I’m going to try. When we adjust settings, we select the measure and it gives performance estimates. The only real way to test, is to jump in the 400m Mission and see what times we post. When the AI run the lap, are all aids on? Most likely. So, I’d guess having to use all aids when testing, is more accurate to what the game is doing. Just a thought.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Last then, if all cars would have identical perfomance this would just mean they are different in visuals alone and taking away of the part the game tries to be a sim on.

Not really, the BoP/PP, if it is variable and based on lap time per track, could be achieved in various ways. BoP (would) keep the power and weight within a set range, for a little more parity across the lap. PP could be more open and achieved through lap time alone, which might mean HUGE power, or light weight, or grip. Cars would have different strengths and weaknesses across the lap.

That's what made the Mini a legend.



This is how PP SHOULD work IMHO. To be fair, they've taken the approach for lateral G/weight/power/top speed/acceleration which is rational, and theoretically, it should be balanced across tracks, but in practice it isn't. I could be totally wrong too. The approach of doing PP per lap might be complete disaster in practice, but I think it might be worth a shot.

 

[05XR8]

Which leads to one of my biggest gripes with the Mini. It’s not a 1275. The in-game S is a 970cc and only gets bumped up to 1000cc. So, I can’t replicate these as NA racers:


”approximately 155hp at the flywheel… 225km/h down Conrod…”

A turbo has to be added to reach that number.