Britain - The Official Thread
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Robin
Premium
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- United Kingdom
What's even more annoying is that we make quite a large financial contribution to the competition (through the BBC) and have done since the beginning (which is why we get to the final by default) yet we haven't exactly benefitted from it and it's political voting.
Talk about a waste of money, paying to be embarrassed every year. We probably shouldn't bother with it any more after we leave the EU unless we want 'nil point' forever.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- Corsham
- lipming
Reverse colonialism?
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Indeed, we had it coming
EDIT: Footage of the invasion on the BBC, not sure how internationally available this is. He didn't sound English?
- 14,009
- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
I'm surprised Israel didn't suffer a blow in the voting due to their recent series of attacks on Syria, but then again, I doubt there's much overlap between Israeli Eurovision enthusiasts and Netanyahu's support base.
- 29,641
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
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- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
- 9,262
- Corsham
- lipming
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44142258
The East Coast main line is being de-privatised. I'm not big on the government controlling everything, but with the state the UK rail network is in, this is definitely a step in the right direction.
The East Coast main line is being de-privatised. I'm not big on the government controlling everything, but with the state the UK rail network is in, this is definitely a step in the right direction.
- 86,691
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The government literally already controls the UK rail network. It's called "Network Rail". It owns all the track, all the infrastructure and most of the stations and it's part of the Department for Transport.
The rail franchises just operate the trains (and manage the stations). That's why they're called "Train Operating Companies".
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- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
The TOCs don't even own their rolling stock. The rolling stock is in private hands but almost always owned by a private holding company like HSBC which leases it to the TOCs because the TOCs themselves change every so often that it's not worth purchasing locomotives and carriages outright and having to sell them on three years later when they've lost their franchise contract.
However it is still one of those frustrating things when a railway franchise is awarded to the lowest bidder and then they come begging cap-in-hand when they don't have any money to keep running. This is what, the second time that the ECML company has walked away from its obligations? First National Express threw up their hands and said "We've got no money" and walked away without so much as a slap on the wrist and now Virgin has done the same.
And in fairness when not running the entire network and swallowing itself up in revenue cannibalism, the state run East Coast turns in a profit and gets good deliverance reviews.
However it is still one of those frustrating things when a railway franchise is awarded to the lowest bidder and then they come begging cap-in-hand when they don't have any money to keep running. This is what, the second time that the ECML company has walked away from its obligations? First National Express threw up their hands and said "We've got no money" and walked away without so much as a slap on the wrist and now Virgin has done the same.
And in fairness when not running the entire network and swallowing itself up in revenue cannibalism, the state run East Coast turns in a profit and gets good deliverance reviews.
I'm not so sure.
I use trains for my daily commute and the experience is largely horrible and massively expensive. I have a season pass for a year that costs just under £2,000 that is of little to no use for anything else. I hate using trains and the fact that they are insanely expensive only makes the experience 10x worse. But I'm not yet sold on the idea that suddenly making them publicly run will really solve any core issues.
What is the core issue of why it costs so much to travel and why rush hour/commuter hours are so much more expensive than regular times? Why is my 17:10 rush-hour commuter train made up of 3 rammed carriage of barely standing room and one empty first class carriage?
Why, does it work out cheaper to own a brand new car on lease, than it does to commute to work via a train?
In all the discussions about making the network state-owned again, I've not really heard good answers to any of these questions.
I'm often in favour of publicly run things like transport, post offices, electricity,...
But I'd have to agree with @baldgye it's not going to make public transport run smooth.
In belgium the trains are public and they run far from perfect. Then again they do run better then in the UK if I hear you guys talk.
But I'd have to agree with @baldgye it's not going to make public transport run smooth.
In belgium the trains are public and they run far from perfect. Then again they do run better then in the UK if I hear you guys talk.
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- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Service issues aside, £6/day doesn't seem like a lot of money for unlimited transportation. The only thing we have comparable here is GO Transit and it's regional, basically covering the greater Toronto area and some towns outside of Toronto. One way fares from Oshawa to Toronto (London to Maidstone) is $11 or £6. Monthly passes were discontinued 6 years ago. Commuting just once per day, 20x per month would be $440 or £255. Service is great though and the cars are quite comfortable and large.
That £2,000 a year, gets me transport within a smallish area of the midlands and one other station. It doesn't actually get me to my office, which means I incur further transport costs.
For the same money I could have a nice new car on lease and go anywhere I want. To get a train to the south coat is a 3 digit amount, for one. It's often cheaper to fly... and monumentally cheaper to drive and often faster to boot. The aditional benefits of the car are that you are in you're own environment and not some unclean rammed train, and you get a seat.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
And you can pay for fuel, insurance, maintenance, repairs, deal with traffic, parking costs etc. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch
. Public rail transport costs what it costs because the equipment, upkeep, infrastructure etc is hideously expensive to build and maintain. Over here at least, I'm sure wages are fairly high, pensions, benefits and perks are probably supremely generous etc.And you can pay for fuel, insurance, maintenance, repairs, deal with traffic, parking costs etc. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch
Oh yeah I'm not saying the roads are free... In fact the only reason I commute via train is because I literally can't afford the parking fee's where I live.
That said, a train to Cornwall, for a single person, one way, shouldn't cost £160.
Again, just want to point out. A car gets you to where you want to go, a train gets you to the nearest town.
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- 23,902
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- GTP_TheCracker
Like I said, I physically can’t pay for parking where I live, but the train network and public transportation is supposed to be ‘for the people’ but it seems increasingly like ‘for the rich’. If I had zero access to a car or couldn’t drive for example, a country break in England via train & bus would double/triple the cost of the holiday.
That train to Cornwall is more money than flights to Spain, France, Germany... it’s insane.
But I’ve yet to hear anything that can fix them, I’m not sure making them government run would actually solve anything. I think instead they’d be messed about even more for short term political gains
Robin
Premium
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- United Kingdom
I don't see things improving with the East Coast line being nationalised, as pointed out it pretty much already is, all your going to see is the same service quality and prices with a different livery (LNER). I hardly ever use trains, at least in my car I get a seat!
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- Bratvegas
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It's very hard for any train operating company to stand out when everyone is given fixed routes and stations to work with. The privatised franchise model is in essance just a way of creating regional cartels; if I want to get a train from Shotton station, my old local stop, Arriva Trains Wales is the only option I have.
And has as been mentioned by myself, Famine and others on previous occasions, only the money-making aspects of British Rail was privatised in the first place; pretty much just the ticket stubs and rolling stock. Everything else is loss-making maintenance and infrastructure, and has remained in public ownership since 1947.
Why would any private company be dumb enough to buy them and incur huge losses? Just like with Royal Mail and any other nationalised institution which goes private, assets are sold and liabilities are retained.
The irony is, as always, that many of Britain's TOCs are actually the nationalised railways of other countries; mainly Deutsche Bahn, SNCF and Nederlandse Spoorwegen with Hong Kong's MTR running a few as well. Our nationalised railways were 'privatised' and handed over to other nationalised railways and thus it's debatable whether the UK's private sector really benefits at all.
And has as been mentioned by myself, Famine and others on previous occasions, only the money-making aspects of British Rail was privatised in the first place; pretty much just the ticket stubs and rolling stock. Everything else is loss-making maintenance and infrastructure, and has remained in public ownership since 1947.
Why would any private company be dumb enough to buy them and incur huge losses? Just like with Royal Mail and any other nationalised institution which goes private, assets are sold and liabilities are retained.
The irony is, as always, that many of Britain's TOCs are actually the nationalised railways of other countries; mainly Deutsche Bahn, SNCF and Nederlandse Spoorwegen with Hong Kong's MTR running a few as well. Our nationalised railways were 'privatised' and handed over to other nationalised railways and thus it's debatable whether the UK's private sector really benefits at all.
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- GTP_Mars
I just got a text from NHS-NoReply saying that in order to comply with new data privacy laws I must reply 'OPTIN'... can you see what they did there?!
