The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Will the current Articles of Impeachment ever be sent from the House to the Senate?


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Turtles gonna turtle.

I dunno. I think it's a bit more complicated than that. In contrast:

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday that he spoke to former President Donald Trump after his acquittal in his second impeachment trial and that Trump is "excited" about the midterms in 2022.

"I spoke to him last night; he was grateful to his lawyers. He appreciated the help that all of us provided. You know, he's ready to move on and rebuild the Republican Party," Graham told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday." "He's excited about 2022. And I'm going to go down to talk with him next week, play a little golf in Florida. And I said, 'Mr. President this MAGA movement needs to continue, we need to unite the party.' "
 
I dunno. I think it's a bit more complicated than that. In contrast:

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday that he spoke to former President Donald Trump after his acquittal in his second impeachment trial and that Trump is "excited" about the midterms in 2022.

"I spoke to him last night; he was grateful to his lawyers. He appreciated the help that all of us provided. You know, he's ready to move on and rebuild the Republican Party," Graham told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday." "He's excited about 2022. And I'm going to go down to talk with him next week, play a little golf in Florida. And I said, 'Mr. President this MAGA movement needs to continue, we need to unite the party.' "
Big yike. He’s literally chuffed they got away with it and wants to double down.
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?
There are other ways to make sure he isn't a GOP candidate (14th amendment or refuse to let him be with their party affiliation), but they don't want to close that door until they are certain. If, for example, he gets tossed in jail for either the Georgia or New York legal battles, then I believe they could get off scot-free as while Trump could run for president and win even while serving a prison sentence, the GOP would likely not support him AND the acting president (whomever Trump's vice-president is) would be unable to pardon Trump as the prison term would be under state, not federal, jurisdiction.
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?
There's nothing to really indicate that Republicans have moved away from Trump. Far from it. Though there were seven Republican senators to vote to convict, 43 others didn't, and at least one of the seven faces censure by representatives of the Republican party in their state for having voted to convict. McConnell aside, Republican leaders have made it clear that Trump is to remain a force in the party.

Beyond that, conviction in the impeachment trial would not, itself, have barred Trump from running again. A conviction on articles of impeachment results only in the impeached and convicted officer being removed from their present post. A conviction after the officer has vacated their post is largely symbolic (though the ball was rolling prior to Trump's official dismissal, and McConnell himself fought to push the process back beyond that point), however it does open the door for a subsequent vote in the Senate that would strip the officer of privileges afforded to former officers, including, in the case of a single term president, the ability to run for a second term.

Though about half of Federal impeachment trials have led to conviction, none were of a sitting or former president. Those impeached at the Federal level consist largely of court officers (Federal district judges and associate judges, and Supreme Court Justices), as well as a legislative officer (senator), a presidential cabinet member and presidents.
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?
Because 74.2 million voters are worth excusing Trump’s disregard for anyone but himself.
 
There's nothing to really indicate that Republicans have moved away from Trump. Far from it. Though there were seven Republican senators to vote to convict, 43 others didn't, and at least one of the seven faces censure by representatives of the Republican party in their state for having voted to convict.

And from what I read 3 of those that voted to convict will be retiring within a year or so.
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?

It's clear "the republicans" don't want not to have anything to do with Trump anymore. The grip Trump has overall on the GOP is still strong, even if he has lost sections of the party. I think it would take another sound defeat at the polls to lead to the dismantling of Trump's control. I'm guessing there are those, like apparently Lindsay Graham, who are counting on Trump voters remaining solidly committed to him, while the Democratic party loses the strong voter turnout they experienced in the last election. So the question is: will suburban soccer moms ... & @Danoff ... still vote Democrat in the next election?
 
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It's clear "the republicans" don't want not to have anything to do with Trump anymore. The grip Trump has overall on the GOP is still strong, even if he has lost sections of the party. I think it would take another sound defeat at the polls to lead to the dismantling of Trump's control. I'm guessing there are those, like apparently Lindsay Graham, who are counting on Trump voters remaining solidly committed to him, while the Democratic party loses the strong voter turnout they experienced in the last election. So the question is: will suburban soccer moms ... & @Danoff ... still vote Democrat in the next election?

That's why in states where the GOP controls state legislatures, I'm sure they are hard at work to figure out how to suppress voter rights the next time around like Georgia is doing.
 
Just wondering:
Having watched McConnell's speech yesterday and listening to the commentators; if the republicans don't want to have anything to do with Trump anymore then why not vote to convict? Wouldn't that be the most certain way to keep Trump from appearing in politics ever again? I mean, he couldn't be president candidate if he was convicted, right?

It's clear "the republicans" don't want not to have anything to do with Trump anymore. The grip Trump has overall on the GOP is still strong, even if he has lost sections of the party. I think it would take another sound defeat at the polls to lead to the dismantling of Trump's control. I'm guessing there are those, like apparently Lindsay Graham, who are counting on Trump voters remaining solidly committed to him, while the Democratic party loses the strong voter turnout they experienced in the last election. So the question is: will suburban soccer moms ... & @Danoff ... still vote Democrat in the next election?
@Whitestar your assumption is right, the Republicans who don't want anything to do with Trump did vote to convict. All seven of them.

The rest of them definitely still want to associate with Trump but they don't want to look like they associate with Trump, because obviously many reasonable and moderate Republican voters were disgusted by what they saw January 6th. Unfortunately they're not very good at hiding it - remember that phrase actions speak louder than words? You can't vote to acquit then pen a letter saying Trump's actions were despicable and then act like the letter proves you want to dissociate from Trump. Screw the letter, your actions say otherwise. People's characters are primarily defined by their actions, not their words, and as the prosecution showed Trump's actions were in line with his character, so too are the actions of the acquitters in line with their characters.

Forty three of fifty Senators still love Trump. They're currently parading under the Republican banner but whether that actually sticks or somebody starts referring to them as something else, I don't know. Personally I think the media should go on a vendetta to rename it the Trumpian Party, or the Q Party, or something like that. If you publish it enough it'll stick. People like Romney are the real Republicans, scared of gays, suspicious of foreigners, low taxes high military, but they're not traitors.
 
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The plot thickens.

4 in 10 Capitol Police officers eligible to participate cast votes of ‘no confidence’ in leaders

Basically, about 650 out of 1,500 officers actually participated in the vote, and the majority of those voted "no confidence" in all of CPD's leadership, including the acting chief and others who had to be appointed after their predecessors resigned following the insurrection. Those acting officials have stated that their goal is to provide the assistance their officers need to help with the trauma of the attack, among other things.

Now, why on earth would so many officers - still a minority though - vote "no confidence" against leaders who are trying to help them after being appointed amid a crisis? More importantly why would they vote against leaders who...weren't even leaders at the time it occurred?

Why would the CPD union say "The entire executive team failed us, and they must be held accountable,” he said, according to NPR. “Their inaction cost lives," but then vote against people who weren't on the executive team at the time of the attack?

Acting Chief Pittman recently testified at the end of January, "By January 4th, the Department knew that the January 6th event would not be like any of the previous protests held in 2020. We knew that militia groups and white supremacists organizations would be attending. We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event. We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target. The Department prepared in order to meet these challenges, but we did not do enough." In saying so, she admits that the department failed. Obviously this raises questions as to why it failed, but it's the truth.

So...why did 611 officers vote no confidence against a Chief who was not actually Chief during the attack and also testified the truth about the attack?

This water seems pretty murky. Methinks 611 officers and their union are seeming pretty suspicious after this vote. There's already plenty of evidence to suggest that some officers actually seemed to help the terrorists - it's on video. This all seems like more circumstantial evidence that allowing the attack was planned. Funnily enough, Lindsay Graham was on Fox News recently asking what Nancy Pelosi knows about how the attack was allowed to occur, implying that Democrats had a hand in planning it. All of these people are behaving so suspiciously that I could swear I'm watching a bad whodunit film.
 
There's nothing to really indicate that Republicans have moved away from Trump. Far from it. Though there were seven Republican senators to vote to convict, 43 others didn't, and at least one of the seven faces censure by representatives of the Republican party in their state for having voted to convict.
@Whitestar your assumption is right, the Republicans who don't want anything to do with Trump did vote to convict. All seven of them.

The rest of them definitely still want to associate with Trump but they don't want to look like they associate with Trump, because obviously many reasonable and moderate Republican voters were disgusted by what they saw January 6th.
Good points. I somehow erroneously made the assumption that most/all republicans wanted him gone. Thanks for clearing that up in my head.
 
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They are not doing a very good job of hiding it if you ask me.
It's obvious to people with critical thinking skills and a broad media appetite, but their base don't have those things. They have one, maybe two sources they get their media from that they truly believe, and those sources are great at not telling the whole truth. They surely publicized the acquittal votes but they won't publish the various letters and statements condemning Trump afterwards. That's the thing about these GQPers, they're such assholes that they they're trying to save face from their colleagues, not their constituents, because they know their constituents are too dumb to even see it!
 
So the question is: will suburban soccer moms ... & @Danoff ... still vote Democrat in the next election?

I think its just as big a question to ask if the 'always reds' - those who just automatically vote republican, if they do vote, because its just what they always do and what their family has always done, will they still vote Trump, after all this, if he did run for 2024? Would they still have the passion? What if tensions do settle down after 3.5 years of a 'boring and uneventful' Biden term. Will these traditional republicans still want Trump back in the White house with all the detritus that comes with it?
 
I think its just as big a question to ask if the 'always reds' - those who just automatically vote republican, if they do vote, because its just what they always do and what their family has always done, will they still vote Trump, after all this, if he did run for 2024? Would they still have the passion? What if tensions do settle down after 3.5 years of a 'boring and uneventful' Biden term. Will these traditional republicans still want Trump back in the White house with all the detritus that comes with it?

True - but those are, in part, the people I am describing (condescendingly) as "soccer moms" (Danoff not being included in that category). People whose economic interests & "family values" concerns might have aligned more with the traditional GOP conservative stance.

I imagine that the 1/3 of American voters who seem to strongly identify with Trump are going to be relatively easy to stir up to come out & vote for Trump should he run in 2024, but possibly less likely to go to the polls in 2022. I can't see the traditional "soccer mom" Republicans turning to to support Trump with any enthusiasm in 2024. Also, unless Biden & the Democrats make a complete mess of things in the interval, I would expect Danoff - & other independents - to turn out in some numbers to ensure that Trump doesn't get re-elected. It's fascinating to me why other Republicans - like Graham - don't see Trump as a losing cause going forward.

I think the 2022 mid-terms might be a strong indication of how things are going to play out in 2024.
 
Trump and his movement has taken two direct headshots from double-barrel impeachment campaigns. Is he a dead zombie, a living martyr,
True - but those are, in part, the people I am describing (condescendingly) as "soccer moms" (Danoff not being included in that category). People whose economic interests & "family values" concerns might have aligned more with the traditional GOP conservative stance.

I imagine that the 1/3 of American voters who seem to strongly identify with Trump are going to be relatively easy to stir up to come out & vote for Trump should he run in 2024, but possibly less likely to go to the polls in 2022. I can't see the traditional "soccer mom" Republicans turning to to support Trump with any enthusiasm in 2024. Also, unless Biden & the Democrats make a complete mess of things in the interval, I would expect Danoff - & other independents - to turn out in some numbers to ensure that Trump doesn't get re-elected. It's fascinating to me why other Republicans - like Graham - don't see Trump as a losing cause going forward.

I think the 2022 mid-terms might be a strong indication of how things are going to play out in 2024.
Lindsey Graham has suggested the future of the GOP may repose in Lara Trump, possibly as a Senatorial candidate from North Carolina sometime soon.
 
The future of the GOP is Trump at the moment. Clearly, he had a ton of support from voters and Congresspeople want to capitalize on that since it means money and votes. It's hard to say what it'll be like in two years though. If Trump is still in favor, the party will very much be the party of Trump. If he's fallen out of favor though watch how fast these people distance themselves from him.

Politicians are only ever looking out for themselves and they're going to do whatever makes sense at the time.
 
The future of the GOP is Trump at the moment. Clearly, he had a ton of support from voters and Congresspeople want to capitalize on that since it means money and votes. It's hard to say what it'll be like in two years though. If Trump is still in favor, the party will very much be the party of Trump. If he's fallen out of favor though watch how fast these people distance themselves from him.

Politicians are only ever looking out for themselves and they're going to do whatever makes sense at the time.

I notice that the recent polls show Biden with a substantial positive approval rating in the region of +15% to +20, something that Trump never came remotely close to. I'm having a hard time understanding why so many congressional leaders are so keen to continuing sucking up to him.

Incidentally, I just noticed that Salt Lake City came out fairly heavily for Biden over Trump in the election. I guess that's where all the weirdos & degenerates in Utah live. :sly:
 
Trump attacks "dour" leader McConnell



Unfortunately I believe all the efforts of Republicans to save face after their acquittal votes was for naught because Trump is maniacal and his extremist followers number in the tens of millions.

In that vein, Matt Gaetz has admitted that "Trumpism" is indeed a thing. To this point I've never heard a Trumpist actually refer to Trumpism, or heard Trumpism mentioned in any official capacity, but now we've got a Trumpist Senator acknowledging that Trumpism is real.

The Republican Party is in a civil war. Good. There aren't many things as bad as Trumpist Republicans, but regular Republicans too weak to disavow Trumpism comes close. They're getting what they had coming to them after allowing Trump into the party.
 
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Dour? Someone taught Trump how to use the thesaurus feature on Microsoft Word.

Also, how did Pelosi almost lose her job? She won the Speaker role 216 to 209. There are 221 Democrats in the House and 211 Republicans. She was never going to lose.

Seriously, Trump's whole statement smells of "old man yells at cloud".
 
I really want to know what Mitch McConnell's deal is. I read his wikipedia bio and a few things surprised me. He was engaged to some degree with the civil rights movement (even attending the I have a dream speech!) in the 1960s and even early on in his senate career he was pretty moderate - he supported abortion and unions for instance. By the time the Clinton presidency rolled around he was pretty much the Mitch we know today. Funny, he voted to convict Bill Clinton for lying about fooling around with an intern and didn't vote convict Trump for being, in his own words, responsible for an attempt to overthrow or damage the entire US congress and assassinate the vice president.
 
Seriously, Trump's whole statement smells of "old man yells at cloud".
It seems like that but his supporters can't be discounted. Even if Congress doesn't follow Trump, his supporters will. That's worrisome.
 
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