The Trump Impeachment Thread

[Danoff]

As much as I would like to lay blame with the spineless insurrectionists in the senate who have refused their oaths of office and their obligation to their country and are willing to turn their backs on any and all principles they might have had...

I think that the real problem is the people. We just have too many people in this country who wanted to attack the seat of government and give up on the country. I know that, to an extent, they are emboldened by their "leaders", but I don't think that there's anything that Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and any of the other submissives can do at this point to quell the authoritarian insanity in their constituents. They should still do the right thing, but they can sorta kinda pretend that they're carrying out democracy by representing the people who would end democracy by trying to help Trump bring about that end. They shouldn't represent those people faithfully, they have a duty above those people, but the people are really what's driving this. And not enough of the country wants to see Trump punished (at all) for what he did on January 6th. In fact, many of them are happy for it and consider him heroic.

So as the Senate moves to acquit, I find myself thinking that it's the nation that's moving to acquit. Not most people, but that group of the nation that prevents us from getting to the supermajority threshold. As a nation, most of us want Trump convicted, but enough of us don't that it's not going to happen. If we did, it would. Impeachment is a political process, and the political will of the nation as a whole is sufficiently supportive of an authoritarian takeover.

Luckily, it's not enough to give these people the power they want. And luckily, we have a court system that, at least part of which, is not beholden to constituents. Hopefully the legal system can bring blind justice.

 

[TexRex]

As much as I would like to lay blame with the spineless insurrectionists in the senate who have refused their oaths of office and their obligation to their country and are willing to turn their backs on any and all principles they might have had...

I think that the real problem is the people. We just have too many people in this country who wanted to attack the seat of government and give up on the country. I know that, to an extent, they are emboldened by their "leaders", but I don't think that there's anything that Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and any of the other submissives can do at this point to quell the authoritarian insanity in their constituents. They should still do the right thing, but they can sorta kinda pretend that they're carrying out democracy by representing the people who would end democracy by trying to help Trump bring about that end. They shouldn't represent those people faithfully, they have a duty above those people, but the people are really what's driving this. And not enough of the country wants to see Trump punished (at all) for what he did on January 6th. In fact, many of them are happy for it and consider him heroic.

So as the Senate moves to acquit, I find myself thinking that it's the nation that's moving to acquit. Not most people, but that group of the nation that prevents us from getting to the supermajority threshold. As a nation, most of us want Trump convicted, but enough of us don't that it's not going to happen. If we did, it would. Impeachment is a political process, and the political will of the nation as a whole is sufficiently supportive of an authoritarian takeover.

Luckily, it's not enough to give these people the power they want. And luckily, we have a court system that, at least part of which, is not beholden to constituents. Hopefully the legal system can bring blind justice.

I don't think you're wrong, but I also think the spineless senators who are going to vote to acquit are also supportive of an authoritarian takeover. I don't mean indirectly by failing to hold actors accountable, but by actually stoking the flames leading up to the events of the 6th. By failing to hold Trump accountable, they're representing people who don't want Trump to be held accountable because of a narrative that they themselves have spread.

 

[UKMikey]

 

[TexRex]

I WAS JUST GOING TO POST THIS!!!

There's a flaw, though. The message suggests McConnell has a conscience. McConnell doesn't have a conscience. Where one would expect to find a conscience exists a secondary greed gland that, while smaller than the primary greed gland, is still pretty engorged.

Edit: I'll post this instead, and the retweet of it appears immediately above the retweet of Schmidt's post on Popehat's feed.



As an aside, I still can't think of Tim Kaine without hearing that scream.

Edit: Aaaaand I've just realized that was Howard Dean, not Tim Kaine. *sigh*

 

[McLaren]

Anyone watching in the last 30 minutes? I'm watching a live thread on Reddit and there's sudden talk about Trump's lawyers looking nervous & witnesses being called now.

 

[Keef]

Anyone watching in the last 30 minutes? I'm watching a live thread on Reddit and there's sudden talk about Trump's lawyers looking nervous & witnesses being called now.

Just turned it on but no I wasn't watching. Didn't realize they started early today. They're in recess until about 12:30 now but yes they did vote to allow witnesses.

Edit: Aaaaand I've just realized that was Howard Dean, not Tim Kaine. *sigh*

 

[Biggles]

As much as I would like to lay blame with the spineless insurrectionists in the senate who have refused their oaths of office and their obligation to their country and are willing to turn their backs on any and all principles they might have had...

I think that the real problem is the people. We just have too many people in this country who wanted to attack the seat of government and give up on the country. I know that, to an extent, they are emboldened by their "leaders", but I don't think that there's anything that Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and any of the other submissives can do at this point to quell the authoritarian insanity in their constituents. They should still do the right thing, but they can sorta kinda pretend that they're carrying out democracy by representing the people who would end democracy by trying to help Trump bring about that end. They shouldn't represent those people faithfully, they have a duty above those people, but the people are really what's driving this. And not enough of the country wants to see Trump punished (at all) for what he did on January 6th. In fact, many of them are happy for it and consider him heroic.

So as the Senate moves to acquit, I find myself thinking that it's the nation that's moving to acquit. Not most people, but that group of the nation that prevents us from getting to the supermajority threshold. As a nation, most of us want Trump convicted, but enough of us don't that it's not going to happen. If we did, it would. Impeachment is a political process, and the political will of the nation as a whole is sufficiently supportive of an authoritarian takeover.

Luckily, it's not enough to give these people the power they want. And luckily, we have a court system that, at least part of which, is not beholden to constituents. Hopefully the legal system can bring blind justice.

I had a bit of an epiphany about this last night. We're treating this all as a political problem - a problem of political extremism & disunity, which it is ... but on a important level this situation has been promoted by the pathology of one man - Donald J. Trump. Yes, our politicians aren't always the "best people", but with Trump the American people elected someone who is beyond the pale - a man who very obviously suffers from diagnosable psychological disorders: narcissism & megalomania among others. The different parts of his brain are not working properly. I think he really believes in a lot of the fantastic web of lies that he spins.

There are probably lots of people like this in the world - psychopaths, sociopaths - but the problem is that this particular one was elected as President of the United States. At what point will enough people come to recognize how bad the orange man really is & say "enough"?

 

[Danoff]

There are probably lots of people like this in the world - psychopaths, sociopaths - but the problem is that this particular one was elected as President of the United States. At what point will enough people come to recognize how bad the orange man really is & say "enough"?

It does seem like people such as him come around every once in a while and bring a wave of... uh... deplorables... with them. The main goal seems to be surviving them.

 

[Biggles]

It does seem like people such as him come around every once in a while and bring a wave of... uh... deplorables... with them. The main goal seems to be surviving them.

Yes - what is equally disturbing though, is how Republicans have normalized his behaviour, the current "trial" being the latest example.

 

[TexRex]

That would have helped. White people all look alike. /s

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

“While a close call, I am persuaded that impeachments are a tool primarily of removal and we therefore lack jurisdiction,” McConnell wrote.

Womp womp...let me just wipe my hands here and do the weasel maneuvers

 

[TexRex]

'Blame you': Johnson and Romney get heated after vote for impeachment witnesses

Republican Sens. Ron Johnson and Mitt Romney had a heated exchange on the Senate floor Saturday after Romney voted to allow witnesses in former president Donald Trump’s impeachment trial.

A "visibly upset" Johnson (R-Wis.) turned to Romney (R-Utah) and the two went “back and forth” with Sen. Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska) between them, according to pool reports.

“Blame you,” Johnson told Romney. Voices were “definitely raised,” according to the report, with Johnson pointing at Romney at one stage.

Asked about the confrontation by reporters, Johnson declined to get into it, saying “those are private conversations.” A reporter then noted that reporters heard it.

"That's grotesque you guys are recording," Johnson said, to which a reporter noted they were allowed to witness the proceedings.

Johnson, a Trump ally, told reporters that the vote will merely “inflame the situation.”

“We never should have this impeachment trial. It's not healing, it's not unifying, it's like opening up a wound and just rubbing salt in it,” Johnson said. “I thought we were going come to a conclusion here today and [then] let’s rip the wound back open, let's rub more salt in it.”

Spokespeople for Romney did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Romney was the only Republican to vote to convict former Trump in his first impeachment trial, and has voted that Trump's second Senate trial is constitutional.

Johnson and Romney weren’t alone in clashing as tensions escalated among congressional Republicans.

Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.), who recently issued a statement detailing a call between Trump and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy during the Jan. 6 insurrection, drew the ire of Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.).

“The gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats,” Greene wrote. “First voting to impeach innocent President Trump, then yapping to the press and throwing [McCarthy] under the bus, and now a tool as a witness for the Democrats running the circus trial.”

“The Trump loyal 75 million are watching,” she added.

On Saturday, House impeachment manager and Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) called to subpoena Herrera Beutler.

"Allowing witnesses would make my vote to acquit that much more transparently partisan."

"It's disgusting that you would catch me saying what I said."

 

[Keef]

'Blame you': Johnson and Romney get heated after vote for impeachment witnesses


"Allowing witnesses would make my vote to acquit that much more transparently partisan."

"It's disgusting that you would catch me saying what I said."

"Partisan" doesn't describe the essence of a vote to acquit. The essence of that vote would be complicity to treason against America. Republicans want a civil war, it's plain to see. They're terrible, awful, evil people who hate you, me, and America. They're upset that their overthrow did not work, they're upset that they were not able to pass an amendment to extend Trump's terms as their spiritual leader Vladimir Putin was able to do, and they're upset that they've been made to actually do the jobs they were assigned to do. But they'll try again. They're sick and dangerous people who need to see a psychiatrist.

 

[Liquid]

“The Trump loyal 75 million are watching,” she added.

I mean... how is this not a major red flag? A cult of personality. At the forefront of US politics. Not just "I think Reagan is pretty good" or "I think Obama's a breath of fresh air" but an actual, obediant, sociopathic, almost psychopathic cult about one individual.

How is this not like what happened in the communist bloc?

 

[Keef]

how is this not a major red flag?

It's not a red flag if your sick and twisted brain wants a despot.

 

[Keef]

NOT GUILTY.

They pulled 7 Republicans.

Seven human beings with consciences.

Forty three traitors.

 

[TexRex]

Edit: I'm astonished that seven were swayed. Not sure if I'm more surprised by Cassidy or Collins, and I'm pleased to be wrong about my predictions for others.

Those seven have no place in the GOP, and this sentiment is sure to be repeated by the GOP.

Garbage
On
Parade

 

[ryzno]

Time for the 14th?
I read it last night, gonna be a stretch to show he supported the Confederates though.

 

[McLaren]

Time for the 14th?
I read it last night, gonna be a stretch to show he supported the Confederates though.

Time to let it go at that level of government and move forth with the Covid relief before they take their break. Be interesting to see what Georgia or New York does in the coming weeks.

 

[Grayfox]

We all knew this was the outcome.
Even if the Trump Terrorists killed Biden or Pence on jan6 they would say Not Guilty.

 

[Dotini]

Now that Trump's 2nd impeachment has concluded with a conviction, I have a couple of questions.

Is it now possible that Trump may be impeached for a 3rd, 4th or more times?

Is it possible for other Presidents beyond their term to be impeached? Is it possible for dead presidents to be impeached?

 

[huskeR32]

Edit: I'm astonished that seven were swayed. Not sure if I'm more surprised by Cassidy or Collins, and I'm pleased to be wrong about my predictions for others.

Those seven have no place in the GOP, and this sentiment is sure to be repeated by the GOP.

Garbage
On
Parade

I cannot believe Sasse actually voted for it. I still don’t like the guy, but kudos for this.

—

Is it possible for dead presidents to be impeached?

Good lord, Dotini.

 

[TexRex]

Good lord, Dotini.

Any approach other than not engaging at all is the wrong approach. Surely you know this by now.

 

[McLaren]

Trump's statement on the acquittal.

 

[NotThePrez]

Trump's statement on the acquittal.

I can't believe I fell for that.

Also, got a good laugh out of McConnell trying to throw Trump under the bus, moments after voting to acquit. Spineless sack of 🤬.

 

[Rossell2]

Thing is there's four years before he has a chance to do anything about trying to get reelected. That's a long time, so much can happen between now and then. I personally doubt he'll get anywhere near.

A lot of stuff will come out over the next few months I reckon. And there'll be a few investigations and legal battles you can bet. Today is more notable for the fact the GOP committed live seppuku.

Be angry now, be calm tomorrow. There's work to do but everything will be alright.

 

[Biggles]

"Partisan" doesn't describe the essence of a vote to acquit. The essence of that vote would be complicity to treason against America. Republicans want a civil war, it's plain to see. They're terrible, awful, evil people who hate you, me, and America. They're upset that their overthrow did not work, they're upset that they were not able to pass an amendment to extend Trump's terms as their spiritual leader Vladimir Putin was able to do, and they're upset that they've been made to actually do the jobs they were assigned to do. But they'll try again. They're sick and dangerous people who need to see a psychiatrist.

I just listened to Mcconnell's impassioned speech (if that's not too unlikely a phrase). He denounced Trump in pretty unequivocal terms (that we really have not heard before from him or any other leading Republicans). He said he was completely morally responsible for the Capitol riot, even if he was not necessarily criminally liable. By doing this he makes explicit the wish of the institutional Republican party to leave Trump behind on the dust heap of history & rebuild their brand. At the same time, I think his point of view that you can't convict a former office holder is not an unreasonable one. In this way, Mcconnell gets to have his cake & eat it too.

I would say all this reinforces what I have been saying: it's up to the American people to reject Trumpism decisively - it can't be seen to be done with political manoeuvring. Of course, having prominent Republican's speak out about Trumps lies is the first essential step. I hope the seven Republican senators who voted to convict is the first step in turning the tables on Trump.

 

[TexRex]

 

[Famine]

I mean, it's no shock, but they basically just acquitting Trump of the same thing they spent nearly two decades hunting Osama bin Laden for - and celebrated killing him for.

 

[McLaren]

I just listened to Mcconnell's impassioned speech (if that's not too unlikely a phrase). He denounced Trump in pretty unequivocal terms (that we really have not heard before from him or any other leading Republicans). He said he was completely morally responsible for the Capitol riot, even if he was not necessarily criminally liable. By doing this he makes explicit the wish of the institutional Republican party to leave Trump behind on the dust heap of history & rebuild their brand. At the same time, I think his point of view that you can't convict a former office holder is not an unreasonable one. In this way, Mcconnell gets to have his cake & eat it too.

I would say all this reinforces what I have been saying: it's up to the American people to reject Trumpism decisively - it can't be seen to be done with political manoeuvring. Of course, having prominent Republican's speak out about Trumps lies is the first essential step. I hope the seven Republican senators who voted to convict is the first step in turning the tables on Trump.

What's your take on the potential can of worms some were talking about concerning what happens if a President commits an impeachable offense in the last month of office if they are aware they will be out of office by the time a trial starts?