Britain - The Official Thread

[ExigeEvan]

You don’t need to do that, just continual work on updating and streamlining the network.
Hell start it now! It’s been left and left and left and now it’s so bad there are small monopolies all over the country.

It has to be major uplifts and grand projects because the old lines are not suitable for high speed trains.

There's talk of improving the time from Cardiff to Camarthen. They're not going to lay a new railway line, they're going to bypass Swansea instead. How does that benefit Swansea?

 

[Touring Mars]

Some papers are reporting that Boris's Big Idea is that Ireland should diverge from the EU on a temporary-ish basis to be part of a customs union with the UK.

I'm struggling to find an original source that isn't The Sun but it sounds like ******** and is therefore credible.

Way ahead of you there...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...to-leave-the-eu.342130/page-183#post-12834867

This discussion should be in the Brexit thread, but suffice it to say that No. 10 have already rebuffed the reports in the media... but, why would they bother admitting that is their true aim when it could very well happen by default whether the UK want it or not?

It's clearly got the Irish government rattled, but its not the first time this topic has reared its head - but yet, no-one (in Ireland or the EU) seems to have an answer other than 'Ireland will not be leaving the Single Market!'... the trouble is, if there's no hard border in Ireland and the UK leaves the EU with no deal agreed, then Ireland will either have to leave the Single Market at least temporarily, or close the border with NI.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Way ahead of you there...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...to-leave-the-eu.342130/page-183#post-12834867

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong thread. Britain, Brexit, got confused

 

[baldgye]

It has to be major uplifts and grand projects because the old lines are not suitable for high speed trains.

There's talk of improving the time from Cardiff to Camarthen. They're not going to lay a new railway line, they're going to bypass Swansea instead. How does that benefit Swansea?

They don't all need to be high speed trains, the trains we have go pretty quickly. We just need more reliable services that are able to support more operators to drive competition in the market.

 

[Novalee]

fox 1 morons on horses 0

 

[MatskiMonk]

^ Having grown up in the countryside with a local hunt, I hate 'em... I don't like horses on the public highways, I don't like Range Rover driving Tories, I hate dogs, and I'm reasonably against hunting for anything other than necessity.... so I used to get REALLY ****ed off when Horse riding Tory boy Range Rover drivers and their dogs would block the road out of the village just for a bit of sport hunting.

 

[baldgye]

I hate dogs

WHAT

 

[TenEightyOne]

WHAT

Hating hunt hounds is highly reasonable, they're heavily horrible animals.

 

[MatskiMonk]

WHAT

Yup, hot-take I know, but to be honest, I'm mostly against pets in general... Dogs tend to get the worst of my distain because they're flaunted and effectively forced upon strangers in public places. I also think they demonstrate the worst traits of their owners, with far too many effectively used as lifestyle accessories or so the owner can make a statement about themselves. I don't like being around them because they're needy, clumsy, and irritating especially those that whine, whimper or bark. Many dogs in public act in fashion that would be ASBO worthy if they were human, and they get a pass because people think that since dogs latch on to them as a food provider they're somehow man's best friend.

I suspect the feeling is mutual, dogs don't seem to like me either!

 

[baldgye]

Hating hunt hounds is highly reasonable, they're heavily horrible animals.

Yup, hot-take I know, but to be honest, I'm mostly against pets in general... Dogs tend to get the worst of my distain because they're flaunted and effectively forced upon strangers in public places. I also think they demonstrate the worst traits of their owners, with far too many effectively used as lifestyle accessories or so the owner can make a statement about themselves. I don't like being around them because they're needy, clumsy, and irritating especially those that whine, whimper or bark. Many dogs in public act in fashion that would be ASBO worthy if they were human, and they get a pass because people think that since dogs latch on to them as a food provider they're somehow man's best friend.

I suspect the feeling is mutual, dogs don't seem to like me either!

I'm deeply confused by this hot-take, but I guess each to their own... that said, dogs are just innocent animals, if they come up to you and say hello, they're just being friendly lol

 

[Famine]

Dogs are better people than most people.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Dogs are better people than most people.

Most people aren't that great.

 

[PzR Slim]

Yup, hot-take I know, but to be honest, I'm mostly against pets in general... Dogs tend to get the worst of my distain because they're flaunted and effectively forced upon strangers in public places. I also think they demonstrate the worst traits of their owners, with far too many effectively used as lifestyle accessories or so the owner can make a statement about themselves. I don't like being around them because they're needy, clumsy, and irritating especially those that whine, whimper or bark. Many dogs in public act in fashion that would be ASBO worthy if they were human, and they get a pass because people think that since dogs latch on to them as a food provider they're somehow man's best friend.

I suspect the feeling is mutual, dogs don't seem to like me either!

I find it really sad that you feel this way about dogs. Dogs have been a huge part of my life. My first was the same age as me and my best mate growing up. They are unflinchingly loyal, will love you unconditionally and if treated right and trained properly are much better behaved than any human. So don't say you hate dogs, say you hate their owners for the way they allow them to behave.

It would also be really interesting to see where we would be at as a species if we hadn't domesticated wolves.

 

[Famine]

Most people aren't that great.

Indeed, but dogs are. QED.

Even dogs taught to be horrible - by horrible people - will respond to love and affection in kind (although it takes time). They may still fall into old habits - when scared or surprised - but when they've been abused from birth and over the equivalent of 35 years, it's not surprising. They just want to be with us. Here's our most recent rescue doing just that:

In fact dogs, along with autism, were a key driver of human evolution. If it wasn't for them there may not have been an us (and vice versa).

 

[TenEightyOne]

Indeed, but dogs are. QED.

Even dogs taught to be horrible - by horrible people - will respond to love and affection in kind (although it takes time). They may still fall into old habits - when scared or surprised - but when they've been abused from birth and over the equivalent of 35 years, it's not surprising. They just want to be with us. Here's our most recent rescue doing just that:

My point about hunt hounds should have made clear that they're deliberately kept in an undomesticated setting and are intended to be dangerous. But given half a chance I have no doubt the pups could be raised to be fantastic (if destructive) pets.

 

[baldgye]

I find it really sad that you feel this way about dogs. Dogs have been a huge part of my life. My first was the same age as me and my best mate growing up. They are unflinchingly loyal, will love you unconditionally and if treated right and trained properly are much better behaved than any human. So don't say you hate dogs, say you hate their owners for the way they allow them to behave.

It would also be really interesting to see where we would be at as a species if we hadn't domesticated wolves.

Yeah dogs have been a huge part of my life too.

I’ve got friends and family who never grew up with dogs and they have such a small appreciation of animals in general. I massively recommend* bringing kids up around dogs as they are such fantastic company and loyal friends

*typed that half asleep and totally made a bodge of it

 

[UKMikey]

I'm not fond of some of the dog people I have met. I guess I have a small appreciation of animals being kept as pets in general but each to their own. I'm glad it's not mandatory.

 

[baldgye]

My point about hunt hounds should have made clear that they're deliberately kept in an undomesticated setting and are intended to be dangerous. But given half a chance I have no doubt the pups could be raised to be fantastic (if destructive) pets.

My fiancé’s parents have a hunting dog and it’s the sweetest and most pathetic dog I’ve met

You have to realise that dogs only exist as they do today, so they could be worked. Working dogs do not make great pets because they aren’t bread/trained for that. It’s not the fault of the dog nor the owner it’s just how it is.

Huskies and mountainous guard dogs (many breeds), are wonderful animals and good companions but are terrible pets.

 

[Liquid]

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

I feel that this is generally true. If you raise them to be nasty, they'll be nasty but if you raise them to be lovely, they'll be lovely.

 

[MaxAttack]

^ Having grown up in the countryside with a local hunt, I hate 'em... I don't like horses on the public highways, I don't like Range Rover driving Tories, I hate dogs, and I'm reasonably against hunting for anything other than necessity.... so I used to get REALLY ****ed off when Horse riding Tory boy Range Rover drivers and their dogs would block the road out of the village just for a bit of sport hunting.

I agree so much - the Isle of Wight is literally riddled with bridleways and yet horsey types (almost exclusively teenage girls for some reason) insist on taking main roads and country lanes, many of our roads are single-lane narrow and full of blind corners.

Can't agree with you on dogs, though. We have a special bond with them going back to real mud hut times. I hope we will evolve into a space faring civilisation and take the dogs with us. They deserve it, they put in the work.

Brings me back to my disdain for horse owners. Not so long ago horses were vital to our society, but technologically we have moved past them. To my mind, enough horses died for no reason in the fields of Europe - I'm referring particularly to WW1 here - that we really need not ask any more of them, nor make them our hobby trophy. We should leave them well alone at this point - a horse has no use but to live and should be allowed to do just that, not be paraded around by some posh girl who just so happens to really enjoy the motion of riding. Then they go off to uni and poor horseface is their darling no more, and will stand about in a field until it expires.

I'm saying that horse riding is masturbation, by the way. No smoke without fire. Why only teen girls?

Range Rovers can bugger off, too. It's that real touristy time of year right now and our roads are hectic. You can always tell the local cars from the DFLs (down from london), and not only by the reg.

Tourist car: Range Rover, Hyundai Tucson, Big AUDI Qwhatever, really any big old useless SUV.

Local car: Toyota Yaris, Ford Fiesta, Renault Clio. You MIGHT see a farmer in a Defender but more likely in some old crapbox like a Metro Rio Grande.

 

[TenEightyOne]

My fiancé’s parents have a hunting dog and it’s the sweetest and most pathetic dog I’ve met

That does sound like it lives in a house and is domesticated, most hunt dogs live in a dedicated kennels and only go out to exercise or hunt. They're not very pleasant animals, even with one another once the cry is up, and very few are domesticated once they retire at around 6 years old (3,000 a year are destroyed for this very reason).

 

[baldgye]

That does sound like it lives in a house and is domesticated, most hunt dogs live in a dedicated kennels and only go out to exercise or hunt. They're not very pleasant animals, even with one another once the cry is up, and very few are domesticated once they retire at around 6 years old (3,000 a year are destroyed for this very reason).

Yeah, because like I said, they are working dogs bread and raised for that single reason. Just like other forms of working dogs they are not suitable for the home.
Personally, I don't see why the Government cant/wont fine the people found guilty of taking part in hunts and that money used to fund the caring and looking after of these hunting dogs and other working dogs when they can no longer work... instead of simply just killing them all.

I imagine that'd come to a decent penalty.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I feel that this is generally true. If you raise them to be nasty, they'll be nasty but if you raise them to be lovely, they'll be lovely.

Generally true perhaps, but I think it's naive to believe that nurture trumps nature in every case. We spend billions investigating personality genetics in humans and I think it's wrong to assume the same could not be true in dogs.

 

[Famine]

Generally true perhaps, but I think it's naive to believe that nurture trumps nature in every case. We spend billions investigating personality genetics in humans and I think it's wrong to assume the same could not be true in dogs.

It's likely the case, but you have to remember that dogs are here for a good time, not a long time. The first two years of a dog's life are its childhood, teenage years and early adulthood - a two-year old dog is basically a 20-year old human. If someone spends two years abusing a dog and training it to fight, lash out at threats, and be scared at every moment (usually by starving and beating) it's the equivalent of two decades of the same treatment to a human.

That doesn't go away easily - imagine how Kerstin Fritzl gets on when she can't see windows, and what she dreams about. Even our middle dog, who's now probably seven maybe and has been here five years, still eats her food like it's going to be taken away from her at any moment despite the fact it never has in the whole time she's been here. Both her and the youngest one react to "playful noises" from children and adults as signs of distress and will come in to defend (not with teeth; they just try to get physically between the alpha and the junior pack members) because they spent 20 dog years in houses where children and women (and dogs) were beaten and abused*. And they're both staffies (well, one's half, and half-lab. She's basically 30kg of staffy), one of the often-claimed aggressive breeds.


That said, we have artifically bred dogs for certain traits to fit certain tasks - hence all the breeds - and aggression is a trait that is positively selected for in some cases. Even ignoring dog-fighting (which is basically a duel, but with intelligent animals instead of dumb ones shooting each other), it doesn't take much imagination to think of tasks where aggression is a benefit: guard dogs, police pursuit dogs, pest-control on farms and so on. Generally we prefer channelled aggression - I've known guard dogs who will be borderline lethal on the chain, but puppies in the house; police dogs are very similar - but if you just want a dog to go down a hole and kill rats and it's too hard to train them to be nice when they aren't doing that, people won't bother. See also: pikies with bull-type dogs.

There are certain breeds where you have to be aware of dog behavioural cues to safely be around them (staring into the eyes of a German Shepherd is not a good idea), but it's more common that it's on a dog-by-dog basis. You can't know how people treat their dogs behind closed doors, although if you're approaching one tied up outside a shop in as unthreatening a manner as you can and it still bares its teeth and tucks its tail under, you can get a good idea of it. That's not its fault - once it's taken it out of that environment and has a couple of years of not being abused and you'll have a loving, selfless friend for (its) life.


*Which is depressingly adorable; they put their bodies on the line to protect others. They'd take the hits so the kids didn't.

 

[MaxAttack]

Even ignoring dog-fighting (which is basically a duel, but with intelligent animals instead of dumb ones shooting each other),

Much as I agree with you wholeheartedly, phew, boy, that's pretty darn edgy.

I'm fairly sure lawyers are smarter than dogs - though infinitely less morally bankrupt.

Props to you for rescuing - God's work if I ever saw it - I love Staffs. Their reputation is so undeserved, very gentle, caring and sociable dogs.

 

[Liquid]

Amusing in a not so amusing sort of way.

 

[Famine]

Quick reminder: I posted this in June, before the Conservative leadership battle had even reached its conclusion...

Alternatively - and this is the one you're going to need a stiff drink for - he'll ride the no deal train, team up with Farage heading into a GE in September, deliver an absolute slaughter of Labour still vacillating on deal or no deal or new deal or referendum (to the point that they will cease existing as a political party) smash through 50% of votes cast, Hard Brexit, welcome BXP/UKIP back into the Conservative fold, be lauded as the saviour of the Tories from the low ebb of May, quit after three years with a peerage/knighthood and pass the reins on to Farage.

 

[Touring Mars]

Furthermore, a General Election gives Johnson and the hard Brexiteers/No Deal supporters the chance to run a de facto second referendum on Brexit, but with a rather interesting statistical twist. While they would need to win a majority (50% or greater) of seats in Parliament to be able to call the whole thing a success, that can be achieved with just 36% of the popular vote... in other words, 'No Deal' could win a majority (and get enough MPs to force it through) with just over one-third of the popular vote.

 

[Liquid]

I fly home on 11th October for a family wedding. I don't want a :censored:ing general election getting in the way if it's the day before. If it's any time after that means going to the council offices again which, as I'm sure is true up and down the island, is nothing but a barrel of laughs.

 

[Liquid]

Dissecting comedy isn't funny and ruins the joke but I'm curious to know:

Two different comedy takes on the same subject. Which do you prefer?

Morecambe & Wise



The Two Ronnies



For the younger audience who aren't historians, there are some dated references but they're both hilarious even to this day. Two Ronnies is better though.