Britain - The Official Thread

[Keef]

We Americans would be talking about this. We'd be saying things about national sovereignty, especially. What are Britons thoughts on an issue like that? Anything more than a goofy picture?

 

[Liquid]

Basically, I'd rather go back to the old days of the EEC; European Economic Community. It's similar to NAFTA.

As I've said a few times on here; economic co-operation, yes. Economic assimilation, no. We are not happy about our national 'sovereignty' being taken away, but western Europe is no longer continent full of people willing to instigate revolutions. Except maybe the French. Briton hasn't had any major public political displays of violence or rioting sine the poll tax* back in 1990. I stress political riots, given the embarrassing nature of the 2011 summer riots in London.

*Poll tax - In the US, this would be a capitation tax or head tax, not a tax on registering to vote. Poll is a very archaic word for head.

Plus, there are far more United States citizens on this forum than Britons so debate is likely to be much more active in your thread. So, I dunno, I guess we're just lazy...

 

[axletramp]

Apathy comes into it as well. There's an inevitable feeling of political 'greyness' with all the parties blurring into one group of people all arguing with each other but with very similar policies. In essense I suppose you could see Europe as at least offering some differing political standpoints, but I don't know many Brits who give a monkey's whether we're in or out of Europe. We've been there for a while and that hasn't exactly worked out brilliantly for us but there's a sense of uncertainty as to what the effects of leaving might be. Perhaps if big Dave clarified that he'd get more people on board and interested. Perhaps big Dave doesn't know himself.

But then again I'm now living somewhere that isn't part of the EU or the UK but still in Europe, so my personal position is a little different.

Sorry, I haven't got a funny picture for this post.

 

[Liquid]

Yeah, at is a tax exile. Good for him, right?

The parties are all very similar. That's the problem with British politics; it's just two sides of the same coin. The Tories scratch their own backs just as much as Labour do. It's quite pathetic how Labour tries to be a 'working class' party given the shift towards the middle-class they did during the Blair-Brown years.

Again, I've used it before but this is British politics in a nutshell.

 

[axletramp]

Yeah, at is a tax exile. Good for him, right?

Hey, I pay taxes, just not those ridiculously disproportionate UK ones.

Being part of the EU has been, and always will be, one of economics i.e, money, plain and simple. There is no nationalistic argument here. Most of the countries in Europe were at war within the last two generations and tbh, I can't see many if them even wanting to be in the same room if there wasn't some kind of financial gain from it. I'm not saying there's any aggression between the states (I personally have no issues with any nation in Europe) but if certain people think there's going to be one happy 'tribe' of Europe, think again

It's all about the Benjamin's - nations still want to be nations.

 

[Keef]

...but I don't know many Brits who give a monkey's whether we're in or out of Europe.

Well, they should because decisions like this hold real consequences for them, good or bad. I don't know many Americans that care much about important issues...luckily the rest of us have guns so we don't have to decide who will be making the decisions.

We've been there for a while and that hasn't exactly worked out brilliantly for us but there's a sense of uncertainty as to what the effects of leaving might be. Perhaps if big Dave clarified that he'd get more people on board and interested. Perhaps big Dave doesn't know himself.

What happened when we left England? Success as never before realized by the human race. Look at it this way: As long as the UK is able to produce what they can and trade for what they can't, there really isn't anything scary about breaking a union with a bunch of lazy asses who won't work on Saturday. Are you guys really that scared of Germany that you have to keep them strapped down with ropes called the European Union?

 

[TyrrellRacing]

I don't think many people really understand the situation fully, certainly if various comments sections around the internet are representative of the public. The mainstream press do a piss poor job of covering Europe; they make their allegiance shown, but don't provide any conclusive arguments as to why.

 

[Famine]

An appropriate comparison would be between the States of the USA and the USA to the countries of the EU and the EU - or at least that's the ideal. There's even talk of a European Constitution, which will no doubt be some overly complex pile of contradictory tripe (a la UN charter for Human Rights) that still allows shysters to be shysters.

There's complicating factors - multiple languages and the part where we've spent a thousand years being at war with each other are high on the list, the three different flavours of EU being another - but that's the supposed analogy.

 

[Lizard]

I don't think many people really understand the situation fully, certainly if various comments sections around the internet are representative of the public. The mainstream press do a piss poor job of covering Europe; they make their allegiance shown, but don't provide any conclusive arguments as to why.

That I agree with. The media show and possibly exaggerate all the control Europe has but doesn't really do much in the way of showing any of the benefits we get from Europe.

 

[Tired Tyres]

We joined an Economic Union for economic reasons, we have sleep walked into a Political Union for no good reason at all and no one seems to care at all that we were not even asked if that was okay.

It's an attempt to create a United States of Europe. Is that a good thing or is it a bad thing?

 

[Roger the Horse]

For an example of why the UK should stay in the EU look at Norway. They still have to go by all the EU's rules and pay a lot of money to the EU just to be in the EEC and do as much trading with the EU as they do, but they get no vote on what the EU does. Leaving the EU would only reduce the UK's power and leave it even more venerable to some kind of octal dip recession.

 

[Liquid]

Norway has rich oil reserves. It can survive.

We have North Sea, but not a lot of it. We might not survive.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Exactly. Norway gets by as a result of that, but the UK wouldn't last long. The UK would just be buying itself into a losing situation by quitting the EU.

 

[Sphinx]

We joined an Economic Union for economic reasons, we have sleep walked into a Political Union for no good reason at all and no one seems to care at all that we were not even asked if that was okay.

No. At the time Britain wasn't under any illusion as to the meaning of joining. However, it could be argued the British public didn't fully understand the implications in joining and perhaps were misled somewhat into thinking that this was just about trade and had nothing to do with joining a future federation. The truth is, it was about both, with one eventually leading to the other, over time.

The parties are all very similar. That's the problem with British politics; it's just two sides of the same coin.

Indeed, but why?

Could it be due to so many decision now being made in Brussels and elsewhere that all political parties are now fighting for the same scraps. This could be why it's now important for all main political parties to move to the centre ground for election, excluding the liberals of course, thus making them all one of the same regardless of their real political ideologies.

 

[Roger the Horse]

I think the parties are similar for a number of reasons, but a major one is probably that the media generally ( at least to some extent) gets what the media wants, and an awful lot of the media conform to a right wing, authoritarian, sometimes rather racist viewpoint.

The reason for this is generally because that viewpoint favours the shareholders investing in the media's prospects; and these shareholders use their leverage within the organisation's structure to ensure that editors are put in place who's beliefs conform with these viewpoints; therefore meaning that information is streamed to voters with a bias towards said viewpoints, leading to a larger number of voters supporting parties and politicians who also conform to these viewpoints; meaning these parties and politicians find it far, far easier to gain and stay in power.

I am aware that that is pretty reminiscent of a slippery slope argument in structure, but I can't see enough assumptions there for it to actually be one. I hope the reasoning stands up.





Man, I wish I could use more punctuation there... Can't work out how though...

 

[sesselpupser]

So I read this earlier:

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2011/...geous-even-i-cant-be-bothered-to-satirise-it/

This is why never have nor ever will vote Conservative.

 

[axletramp]

That's interesting, but is there any further information about that as it's dated 3rd December 2011? Did it actually get pushed through?

On another note, the government are getting whole-heartedly behind this new multi-billion fast train network, which makes me worry that they're diverting attention from something else. Also, if you want to encourage and help business across the UK, then why not invest the money in a national fibre optic and/or 4G+ network. I would have thought that far more beneficial than a fast way of getting from London to Leeds at the cost of £2k per person and private company to run it.

 

[PeterJB]

To be fair, we do need more railways. Trains are far more crowded now than they were when I was very young, even getting the train back to uni today there were people forced to stand in the aisles. I think it would be worth reopening the lines and stations closed in the Beeching Axe that can be reopened, as a lot of the infrastructure is still there.

 

[Famine]

In other news, the rabid paedohunters at the Daily Mail decided it was a brilliant idea to caption a picture of Heidi Klum's eight year old daughter with "Mum's not the only leggy beauty in the family":

 

[Liquid]

Vintage Daily Fail.

It's not the first time they've done things like this.

 

[Emptyone]

Vintage Mail indeed.

This video highlights some of their shortcomings (lots of language warning)


Best bit is around 11 minutes.

It's a worrying practice, promoting the lives of innocent youngsters in such a lewd fashion.

 

[Zenith]

*washes eyes out with boiling water*

 

[dhandeh]

Seeing that we are rightly Daily Mail bashing, make your own headline.

 

[Liquid]

Seeing that we are rightly Daily Mail bashing, make your own headline.

"Have Gypsies impregnated the Royal Family?"

Well I know she's a commoner compared to William, but that's no way to talk about Princess Catherine...

 

[axletramp]

Is it wrong that my answer is "yes" to all those headlines?






I like my world....

 

[Roger the Horse]

IS THE EURO SCROUNGING OFF THE MEMORY OF DIANA?

ARE TEACHERS INFECTING THE BRITISH PEOPLE WITH AIDS?

WILL CHANNEL 4 STEAL FROM PROPERTY PRICES?

ARE FOXES BURGLING THE QUEEN?

WILL FERAL CHILDREN MAKE THE MIDDLE CLASS IMPOTENT?

COULD THE UNEMPLOYED MAKE HOMEOWNERS OBESE?

IS THE EURO TAXING THE MIDDLE CLASS?

HAVE THE UNEMPLOYED HURT COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY?

WILL THE P.C. BRIGADE IMPREGNATE THE MIDDLE CLASS?

HAS THE HOUSE PRICE CRASH HURT YOUR MORTGAGE?

HAS FEMINISM DEFRAUDED PROPERTY PRICES?

WILL YOUR LOCAL COUNCIL GIVE PENSIONERS DIABETES?

HAVE SINGLE MOTHERS RIPPED OFF CLIFF RICHARD?

IS THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT GIVING HOMEOWNERS SWINE FLU?

HAS THE HOUSE PRICE CRASH INFECTED COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY WITH AIDS?

WILL FACEBOOK GIVE HOMEOWNERS SWINE FLU?

HAVE YOBS MADE CLIFF RICHARD OBESE?

COULD ASYLUM SEEKERS BURGLE BRITAIN'S FARMERS?

and the piece-de-resistance

WILL ASYLUM SEEKERS KILL THE QUEEN?



This is why I avoid the country of my birth...






But seriously, HAS THE EURO GIVEN YOUR PENSION CANCER?

 

[TyrrellRacing]

Oh dear, Mr Cameron ...

 

[Famine]

Can we send that letter to every halfwit Twitter commentator who's accused Cameron of lying about reducing the deficit by posting links to Grauniad articles of the increase in debt over the last three years?

Fact is the debt is still going up because we still have a deficit - deficit increases debt - but the deficit has been going down year on year since Alistair Darling's last inept overtures saw a deficit three times higher than any in history prior to Golden Brown's.

 

[Solo]

MPs vote in favour of bill legalising gay marriage in England and Wales.

 

[orimarc]

Seeing that we are rightly Daily Mail bashing, make your own headline.

I can only answer one thing:

IS THE BBC INFECTING THE COUNTRYSIDE WITH AIDS?

PD: Nice work on the gay marriage law.