Britain - The Official Thread

[Joel]

It's pretty hilarious as a Canadian watching people say "they" can't mix. Come to Toronto and tell me the immigrant population aren't Canadians. Perhaps the problem isn't "them" because "they" have no problem here.

 

[Liquid]

Americans didn't integrate peacefully with the natives. They even went as far as overpowering them and taking over their entire continent.

Should they be sent back to Europe?

It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At one point in the video the murdering scumbag says, "in our land women have to see this all the time", referring to the victim lying dead on the street 10 metres away. I could be wrong but I don't think he's referring to the U.K. when he says, "our land". In fact, I'd bet on it. He's also quoted as referring to Allah so I'll go way out on a limb and say he's yet another Muslim extremist murderer, killing, so he believes, in the name of his god and his religion. Sick.

Too bad you don't have the death penalty anymore.

 

[Liquid]

At one point in the video the murdering scumbag says, "in our land women have to see this all the time", referring to the victim lying dead on the street 10 metres away. I could be wrong but I don't think he's referring to the U.K. when he says, "our land". In fact, I'd bet on it. He's also quoted as referring to Allah so I'll go way out on a limb and say he's yet another Muslim extremist murderer, killing, so he believes, in the name of his god and his religion. Sick.

Too bad you don't have the death penalty anymore.

Re: Bolded bit.

Considering that there are roughly one billion Muslims, maybe more, how many of those are extremist murderers?

BBC are still reporting that they're British. They could be referring to their motherland. Either way, their country of origin shouldn't detract from their actions or influence their punishment.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Re: Bolded bit.

Considering that there are roughly one billion Muslims, maybe more, how many of those are extremist murderers?

BBC are still reporting that they're British. They could be referring to their motherland. Either way, their country of origin shouldn't detract from their actions or influence their punishment.

Like I said, I'll bet anything you want, they aren't referring to Britain as their homeland. You can jump through the hoops, write the tests and get a piece of paper that says you are a citizen, doesn't mean you're British.

Regarding the bolded bit, I did say, "Yet another" meaning literally, "an other" as in one more than yesterday. I didn't refer to all Muslims in any way, please be factual if you are going to quote me.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Let's face it, plenty of "white British" don't integrate with one another. Where should we deport them?

Wales...

I jest.

I'm not suggesting that cultural integration is wrong at all, just that for all the talk of our multi-cultural society, we actually don't mix... yes, we buy kebabs from 'them', we buy our 4 pack of Stella from 'them' when nowhere else is open.. But, welcoming service providers into your community isn't being multi-cultural, partaking in their activities, beliefs, rituals and celebrations would be, and really the 'natives' of our island aren't that great at doing such things.

 

[Dotini]

Considering that there are roughly one billion Muslims, maybe more, how many of those are extremist murderers?

An overwhelming majority of Muslims are Sunnis, while an estimated 10-13% are Shias. http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/Mapping-the-Global-Muslim-Population(6).aspx

In Iraq, Sunnis were removed from rule and Shia installed. Bombings and beheadings ensued. In Libya and Egypt, secular tyrants were removed and Sunnis installed. Strife ensues. In Syria, Shia are getting the bum's rush in favor of Sunnis. Civil war ensues. In all of these struggles, fighters are sheltered and supported by their families and religious affiliations extended throughout the region. Hundreds of native interpreters for the British forces in Afghanistan are to be immigrated to the UK.

 

[Liquid]

I'm not suggesting that cultural integration is wrong at all, just that for all the talk of our multi-cultural society, we actually don't mix... yes, we buy kebabs from 'them', we buy our 4 pack of Stella from 'them' when nowhere else is open.. But, welcoming service providers into your community isn't being multi-cultural, partaking in their activities, beliefs, rituals and celebrations would be, and really the 'natives' of our island aren't that great at doing such things.

That's true.

My atheism means I don't partake in Ramadan, Divali or Hanukah as much as I don't partake in Lent, Easter or Kwanza.

Seeing Johnny Foreigner down the pub and sharing a laugh or drink with them is a sign of integration though. Vlad from the boxing club is a top lad.

An overwhelming majority of Muslims are Sunnis, while an estimated 10-13% are Shias. http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/Mapping-the-Global-Muslim-Population(6).aspx

In Iraq, Sunnis were removed from rule and Shia installed. Bombings and beheadings ensued. In Libya and Egypt, secular tyrants were removed and Sunnis installed. Strife ensues. In Syria, Shia are getting the bum's rush in favor of Sunnis. Civil war ensues. In all of these struggles, fighters are sheltered and supported by their families and religious affiliations extended throughout the region. Hundreds of native interpreters for the British forces in Afghanistan are to be immigrated to the UK.

All well and good and certainly true. But there are no figures for how many of those one billion are extremist murderers.

 

[MatskiMonk]

That's true.

My atheism means I don't partake in Ramadan, Divali or Hanukah as much as I don't partake in Lent, Easter or Kwanza.

Seeing Johnny Foreigner down the pub and sharing a laugh or drink with them is a sign of integration though. Vlad from the boxing club is a top lad.

Fair enough... I bloody hate Christmas too... nothing to do with it offending my religion, I don't have one.. it's just a pain in the ass!

The amount of horse-crap "share this if you're proud to be English.." posts on my Facebook feed has probably increased 10 fold today. The governments calling it a terror attack, and the media are fueling, and feeding on the public outrage. If these guys did have an agenda, it worked.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Also I'm not sure where Dotini got the figures from Syria...but Shia =/= Alawites per say, they are different from say your run of the mill Iran or Iraqi Shia.

Fair enough... I bloody hate Christmas too... nothing to do with it offending my religion, I don't have one.. it's just a pain in the ass!

The amount of horse-crap "share this if you're proud to be English.." posts on my Facebook feed has probably increased 10 fold today. The governments calling it a terror attack, and the media are fueling, and feeding on the public outrage. If these guys did have an agenda, it worked.

Do you not think it is a terror attack? I don't have a side on the matter since I just started reading and researching it, but alot of the people in the U.S. seem to be happy with your PM calling it a terror attack and wish our President would be more forward by doing the same when similar events happen.

Also my respect to the poor cadet that was killed

 

[Dotini]

All well and good and certainly true. But there are no figures for how many of those one billion are extremist murderers.

From the 1st Crusade in 1096, through the Afghan wars of the 1800's, the WWI gas attacks on Ottomans and 1920's suppression of Iraqi rebels, and on to the more recent deployments, imperial British rulers have been sending soldiers to the Mideast. Now the blowback from a hundred failed campaigns is come home to roost. A substantial portion of an entire people has come to feel they've been somehow dispossessed by invading foreigners.

 

[Liquid]

Britain has done a lot of bad things. Even on its own doorstep in the assimilation of the lands it holds today.

Countries in the middle east do bad things to their own people. Husseinian Iraq and Saudi Arabia being prime examples. Or Israel vs. Palestine.

I don't think Britain should be the sole focus of these extremists' ire.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Do you not think it is a terror attack?

Personally I wouldn't. Possibly I think because it was an attack against an individual.

We could all be afraid of being attacked and murdered in the street for any number of reasons, but the fact is, for the vast vast majority of the country, I think it's fair to say that they will not even be 1% more afraid, or negatively affected when they leave their front doors tomorrow morning.

Buses and Pubs getting blown up is what I think many people of my age in this country think of when they think of terrorism in the UK.

I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Personally I wouldn't. Possibly I think because it was an attack against an individual.

We could all be afraid of being attacked and murdered in the street for any number of reasons, but the fact is, for the vast vast majority of the country, I think it's fair to say that they will not even be 1% more afraid, or negatively affected when they leave their front doors tomorrow morning.

Buses and Pubs getting blown up is what I think many people of my age in this country think of when they think of terrorism in the UK.

I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.

No I actually like your opinion, I think terrorism has been taken too far out of context in a sense. I think at the end of the day this is just a murder plain and simple, "terrorism", racism, xenophobia or whatever else you want to call it, this is still murder of someone for no real reason.

Thus the whole meeting labeled COBRA seems redundant, as if the aliens are coming...

 

[Katiegan]

A woman who was at the scene has said how she spoke to the men and talked them out of 'starting a war in London tonight' as they wanted to do. She said how one of the men explained to her why they did it, saying "I killed him because he killed Muslims and I am fed up with people killing Muslims in Afghanistan, they have nothing to do there."

You can read the full story here, however there is an image used in the report that others may find distressing.

I'm also seeing reports that the BBC has said one of the men is of Nigerian origin. The 'leader' of the two men spoke with a thick London accent so he's obviously been in this country for some time, if not all his life.

 

[Dotini]

Influence of the British Empire on the territories which now form Nigeria began with prohibition of slave trade to British subjects in 1807. The resulting collapse of African slave trade led to the decline and eventual collapse of the Oyo Empire. British influence in the Niger area increased gradually over the 19th century, but Britain did not effectively occupy the area until 1885, and then under pressure of competition from France and Germany.

The colonial period proper in Nigeria lasted from 1900 to 1960.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Nigeria

It can only be added that the Maxim machine gun greatly facilitated the colonization of Africa.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I felt ill reading the story. What a pity that the UK does not have the death penalty in this instance.

 

[Liquid]

Thank Allah for most people I know retaining their heads and not lashing out.

 

[Lizard]

Ahh typical media to link it to Islam at the first chance they have because it gets views/sells papers/puts across a view they want to which can create fear which can then be used to justify things like more police powers etc.
I hate the media sometimes.

 

[Sphinx]

Ahh typical media to link it to Islam at the first chance they have because it gets views/sells papers/puts across a view they want to which can create fear which can then be used to justify things like more police powers etc.
I hate the media sometimes.

Yeah typical media to report the news the first chance they have. Oh, wait...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ahh typical media to link it to Islam at the first chance they have because it gets views/sells papers/puts across a view they want to which can create fear which can then be used to justify things like more police powers etc.
I hate the media sometimes.

It is linked to this guy being a Muslim, in his mind, that's a fact. Newspapers are supposed to report facts are they not? People leaping to unjustified conclusions has nothing to do with reporting the facts.

 

[Lizard]

Yeah typical media to report the news the first chance they have. Oh, wait...

I didn't say that did I?

It is one thing reporting the news and another putting across the idea that Islam is the cause of all the wrong in the world which the media has a habit of doing.

So every time a murder happens do the media draw attention to things like whether said person went to church or relevent religious building and there are many murderers who went to church or didn't whchever portion you wish to look at? Or whether they were a member of any particular society? Nope. Muslims however always get named as such.

 

[Sphinx]

Who waved the religious card first, the media, or the murdering **** heads who hacked a young lad to death?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't say that did I?

It is one thing reporting the news and another putting across the idea that Islam is the cause of all the wrong in the world which the media has a habit of doing.

So every time a murder happens do the media draw attention to things like whether said person went to church or relevent religious building and there are many murderers who went to church or didn't whchever portion you wish to look at? Or whether they were a member of any particular society? Nope. Muslims however always get named as such.

Poppycock. Please provide links to these articles from mainstream, reputable news sources (not bloggers or rinky dink net news forums) who put across the idea that Islam is the cause of all the wrong in the world. I'd like to read them. Since you refer to it as a habit, please provide multiple references.

Every time a murder happens, the media does what they are supposed to do for the most part. They dig and dig and dig and find out everything about the suspect and report it in the news. Some of it is irrelevant, occasionaly they make errors, no one is perfect. Yes they focus on the titillating stuff sometimes for ratings or sales but so what? If this same soldier was a Muslim and was run over by a Jew and then hacked and stabbed to death while yelling, "God is great, praise the Lord, stay out of Isreal, long live the Jews, death to Palestine", I'm quite certain that would have been reported, because it's relevant, just as a Muslim praising his god while murdering an innocent man is relevant.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Poppycock. Please provide links to these articles from mainstream, reputable news sources (not bloggers or rinky dink net news forums) who put across the idea that Islam is the cause of all the wrong in the world. I'd like to read them. Since you refer to it as a habit, please provide multiple references.

Every time a murder happens, the media does what they are supposed to do for the most part. They dig and dig and dig and find out everything about the suspect and report it in the news. Some of it is irrelevant, occasionaly they make errors, no one is perfect. Yes they focus on the titillating stuff sometimes for ratings or sales but so what? If this same soldier was a Muslim and was run over by a Jew and then hacked and stabbed to death while yelling, "God is great, praise the Lord, stay out of Isreal, long live the Jews, death to Palestine", I'm quite certain that would have been reported, because it's relevant, just as a Muslim praising his god while murdering an innocent man is relevant.

What tv personalities would you like me to give you, and from what event?
Because I could show you from 9/11, Fort Hood, UK Train bombings, Boston and this new one, just pick. You seem to be naïve and overly optimistic that news outlets don't jump or leap to conclusions, but where I live it is the norm, not sure about Canada. Also, how is it relevant to say that it was terrorism? Or better yet how is it relevant to say or display they were Muslim and Murders, not just Murders? Furthermore, I find it disturbing that you are okay with media wanting to sensationalize news just to get more viewers instead of telling the story as given, adding fluff for numbers isn't very respectful to the facts viewers should get. Filling in facts for even a moment just to keep the story going, isn't good journalism.

Who waved the religious card first, the media, or the murdering **** heads who hacked a young lad to death?

Your anger does what for the poor guy that is dead? The ignorance that killer spewed and the fact that you perpetuate further hate toward one persons action then justify it toward a single group, who wouldn't think to do that... Yet further imply that they are just waiting in the wings. Oh but now we should remember the media didn't jump on religious banner and help blow it up. Furthermore, those who are openly Muslim have to be careful the following weeks due to people who think likewise.

It really doesn't matter who waved the religious card as you put it. The real thing that should be centered on is two morons that killed a man for no valid reason. It wouldn't matter if it was xenophobia, racism, sexism, homophobia, religion based, or just because he wore socks to high up. They killed an innocent man and that is the importance. All the Muslim tag does it put normal faith based Muslims in fear of going outside due to what two idiots claiming to understand the religion distasteful acts. It also helps fuel idiots like them into doing acts because they will get the recognition they need, some façade holy war that no one else but delude fools feel is going on.

 

[F1GTR]

I'm disgusted at both the attack itself and the way the media here have chosen to report it, they've used the most incendiary terminology to describe it, from 'Muslim looking', 'terrorism', to even 'Baghdad style violence on the streets of London' (a paraphrase from the ITV report last night) to bring in the viewers. While it was an attack against an ex-member of the armed forces and definitely framed in a religious context by the attackers, it should still be judged for what it is, which is murder - albeit in a very public manner. The way the media have treated it means that peaceful Muslims will be living in fear for the next few months and tensions between them and other cultures/communities will be high. It is very irresponsible for the media - and the PM for that matter - to use such loaded terms since they do not say much but stir up mass hysteria amongst people. I had to wade through various reports for about half an hour before I could piece together an account of what happened since every outlet was filling the dead air with buzzwords.

 

[Sphinx]

Your anger does what for the poor guy that is dead? The ignorance that killer spewed and the fact that you perpetuate further hate toward one persons action then justify it toward a single group, who wouldn't think to do that...

LOL, reading things that aren't there.

Yes I'm angry, but my anger isn't aimed at any group. Please show me where I said that??????????

My anger is directed at two murdering **** heads. That's all.

Please answer the question.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

LOL, reading things that aren't there.

Yes I'm angry, but my anger isn't aimed at any group. Please show me where I said that??????????

My anger is directed at two murdering **** heads. That's all.

Please answer the question.

So you didn't just make a fuss about who injected religion first, as if it really matters? Once again, it is the fact that is being used as the fuel to keep the story going that is the issue. That would seem to imply that due to them using some false image of Islam as a battle cry, that it annoys you. Thus it seems asinine that if people buy into their stupid reasoning for killing and as a result see it for anything more than ridiculous, are prolonging ignorance themselves. In other words, if people end up mad at Islam (which is what it seemed like from your post) over what the media says, or key phrases they use, they miss the importance. It becomes shifted as if these people's ideology and combating it are the prevalent issue, not a dead man in broad day light.

I'm disgusted at both the attack itself and the way the media here have chosen to report it, they've used the most incendiary terminology to describe it, from 'Muslim looking', 'terrorism', to even 'Baghdad style violence on the streets of London' (a paraphrase from the ITV report last night) to bring in the viewers. While it was an attack against an ex-member of the armed forces and definitely framed in a religious context by the attackers, it should still be judged for what it is, which is murder - albeit in a very public manner. The way the media have treated it means that peaceful Muslims will be living in fear for the next few months and tensions between them and other cultures/communities will be high. It is very irresponsible for the media - and the PM for that matter - to use such loaded terms since they do not say much but stir up mass hysteria amongst people. I had to wade through various reports for about half an hour before I could piece together an account of what happened since every outlet was filling the dead air with buzzwords.

Thank you.

 

[Famine]

Incidentally, Sky News are calling this the "Woolwich Murder" - fairly matter-of-fact. The BBC refer to it as "a suspected terror attack" - a slightly less balanced outlook. ITN are currently calling it "a 'terror attack'" and referring to the culprits as "two suspected terrorists".


Just revisiting this post, summarised quite well here:

So, people should get beheaded for visibly showing their support for a charity that help people injured in combat and need support?

I've decided to pull on a shirt to show my support and a big, fat middle finger to pricks like that (the guy whose Twitter feed I posted and to whom E28 is responding... not E28 himself )

Help for Heroes merchandise is available here.

However, I'm buying a shirt for the Help for Heroes-supported Mission Motorsport charity that we reported on last year. They don't have an online shop yet, but there is a section of their Facebook site detailing what they have available and ordering details.

 

[Sphinx]

(which is what it seemed like from your post)

Not at all. I wasn't kicking up a fuss as you put it, I was responding to another poster who was attacking the media for bringing religion into it. I then simply asked who raised the religion subject first, the media or the mudering **** heads.

From a few comments you think you know me. You think you have me sussed. You don't, you know nothing about me.

Pick that apart.