Britain - The Official Thread

[Liquid]

England might get its own national representation. The West Lothian question (or West Cardiff/West Belfast question depending on your perspective) could be vanquished.

 

[jackargent]

I'm told that Shetlanders want a referendum of their own in the event of a Yes vote - to secede with Scotland, to remain with the UK or to become independent themselves.

This has quite significant problems for Salmond, as 90% of Scotland's oil revenue (itself 90% of the UK's) comes from Shetland...


My colleague for a couple of days in Spain recently works for a Scottish newspaper and he effectively summarised it as "We don't want independence from England. We want independence from Westminster.". Join the club!

Yeah the Shetland thing is a bit of myth. There has been a sporadic separatist movement for years but it has never really come to anything. What Shetland is, is a great example of making the most of oil revenues - they negotiated a deal with BP in exchange for allowing the Sullum Voe oil terminal to be built and got a cut of every barrel that passed through there - I think it now stands at about £300m administered through a series of trusts which have delivered fantastic facilities, infrastructure & services to Shetlanders. Meanwhile the UK squandered their oil revenues paying unemployment benefit to miners, steelworkers & shipyard workers thrown out of work and has nothing to show for 30 years of oil revenues.

You may have guessed I shall be voting yes.

The No campaign may well go down as the most inept & ineffective in history. They should have won easily, but now they are staring defeat in the face. Uk politicians are virtually soiling their trousers on live TV. A colleague at work (no voter) said to me yesterday she is really worried because the no campaign has been so awful.

 

[PeterJB]

I am sorry but good luck with those. For Japan because I know the situation it is like this. You don't speak near fluent Japanese? Well you are only good for a job as an English teacher.
Oh you are now fluent in Japanese? What sets you apart from the Japanese people applying for the job? You worked as an English teacher for 10 years? So you did nothing with your life for 10 years?

Japan was more an example of somewhere more developed than the UK. Europe is far more tenable for me.

 

[Lizard]

Japan was more an example of somewhere more developed than the UK. Europe is far more tenable for me.

I understand that it was just Japan is the one country I know what the job prospects are for foreigners.

 

[axletramp]

Will Scotland still have the BBC and will they be able to enforce their licensing in an independent Scotland?

 

[Liquid]

Will Scotland still have the BBC and will they be able to enforce their licensing in an independent Scotland?

Hey! Get to the back of the line!

Border control, currency, Trident, Schengen, EU, NATO, roads, motorways, railways, railway franchising, airspace, student visas, embassies, expatriation, extradition, law, gaols, existing statutes including Scotland, crown assests in Scotland, the SFA's position on the International Football Association committee, maritime borders, armies and taxation.

There is infact a petition at the Scottish Government about giving the Islands a referendum in the event of a Yes vote to establish whether or not the Islands wish to remain part of the UK, go independent as part of Scotland, or even to become independent in their own right. But there is likely going to be no referendum on that any time soon.

[...]

Unfortunately for the Scottish nationalists, Shetland and Orkney could employ the exact same logic as they have in demanding a referendum of their own, and the claim that all North Sea oil belongs to Scotland and its population of 5 million. Tell a Scottish nationalist that it might not be as straightforward as that, however, and they'll likely get very angry very quickly.

Should Scotland secede, what would become of the name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Whether the Queen remained the head of state or not, I can only imagine the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I mean, let's take Schengen. The UK is outside Schengen, so we have immigration checkpoints on all borders. Scotland will be outside of Schengen too (though it's effectively irrelevant whether they are or aren't because they only have one land border - with a non-Schengen country) and that means they'll need to run Scottish Immigration points on all the ports and airports, rather than using the UK Border Agency. But what of the land border? They'll need to negotiate a free movement pact with The Kingdom or erect a border barrier with immigration controls on the A1, M6/M74, A68, A7, A697, B7076, B6138, B6352, B6396, B6350, B6461 and a number of minor roads - including the Pennine Way which crosses from one side to the other about 20 times down its route. Not to mention the railways - the East Coast Mainline would either have to stop at Berwick or have passport controls at the stations. There's about 100,000 border crossings a day, so there'd be queues. The UK can probably bear its share of the cost of putting UK Border Agency personnel and facilities up, but can Scotland?

And that's just Schengen. What about the European Union or the European Economic Area? Will Scotland apply to be part of the EuroZone and adopt the Euro as currency - or will Salmond get his wish to retain the UK pound - and financial dependence on the UK. What about NATO or the UN? Forget G7, G8 or G20. And, for that matter, what political clout does Scotland bring to get its way in these international agreements the way the UK does?

 

[axletramp]

Yeah, I've just found that thread and read through it.

But my question is still the most important.

 

[Touring Mars]

Will Scotland still have the BBC and will they be able to enforce their licensing in an independent Scotland?

Here you go...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/-sp-if-scotland-votes-for-independence-key-questions

It's in there somewhere...

 

[ExigeEvan]

I'm singling it out because I live here. If I lived in somewhere like Moldova or Belarus that's still feeling the after-effects of the Soviet Union I'd probably be saying the same things. Because I live there I have to experience them. And there are plenty of countries throughout Africa, South America and the Middle East that make the UK look like a haven. But the UK is not exactly the land of opportunity. I want out. Far greater opportunities lie for me in places like Japan, Australia, Scandinavia, the Low Counties and Germany.

Go visit them, they've all got massive social issues to rival anything the UK has. Some you'll struggle to even visit, because tax rates are so high. Some have huge finite resources so everything is going great at the moment!

 

[axletramp]

Here you go...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/-sp-if-scotland-votes-for-independence-key-questions

It's in there somewhere...

Thanks. Yes it was in there, but like everything else there is no concrete answer. Which for me is why a 'yes' vote at this stage is so dangerous for everyone. If Scotland is to be independent then it needs to happen in well informed and planned stages. If I was Scottish then I'm sure I'd feel some kind of national pride and desire to be independent. But this isn't 1776 it's 2014 and we're a closer union of nations than some would have others believe. This could be very costly, let's not look back and regret this time.

 

[Touring Mars]

 

[Liquid]

Which for me is why a 'yes' vote at this stage is so dangerous for everyone.

Yes, incredibly dangerous. Nobody, not a single person, has thus far commented about the future of Scotland's Poundlands in the event of independence.

 

[DK]

Yes, incredibly dangerous. Nobody, not a single person, has thus far commented about the future of Scotland's Poundlands in the event of independence.

I think Frankie Boyle mentioned them last Saturday on "Kevin Bridges at the Referendum" on BBC2.

 

[Liquid]

Dang.

 

[Stotty]

So far, this whole independence debate has been a massive help to me - the uncertainty in the currency markets (leading to a weaker pound vs dollar) and generally strong Dow has meant I've been able to off load a pile of US shares at over 11% more than I would have got for them a couple of months ago - WIN FOR ME

Overall though I'm somewhat apathetic with regards to a yes or a no vote.

I'd prefer to see the Union stay together, but if Scotland do leave, at least we get rid of all the Scottish Labour MP's from Westminster and we'll likely never have to put up with another Labour government ever again.

Yes, incredibly dangerous. Nobody, not a single person, has thus far commented about the future of Scotland's Poundlands in the event of independence.

Given Poundland already trade in Ireland and have plans to expand in to Europe, they'll be fine

 

[axletramp]

Whatever happens there's going to be a lot of worked-up people on both sides with a bitter taste in their mouth after this. That's a real shame. For me, I'd be very happy for the people of Scotland to have full independence just as much as I'd be happy if they stayed part of the union. I just think both sides have gone at this the wrong way: the Yes side expecting voters to make decisions on dangerously unanswered questions and the No side turning up late with knee jerk policies to placate the Yes voters and up until then only offering threats. It's just turned ugly and, as usual, the public in the middle will bear the brunt of any outcomes.

 

[PeterJB]

My dad thinks all Scots living in the UK should be deported back the Scotland if they vote yes, because apparently then "All of them want it".

 

[axletramp]

Riiiight. So he hasn't seen any polls then?

 

[PeterJB]

I doubt he cares. If Scotland becomes independent he'll then view all Scots as foreigners and immigrants and want them out of the promised land of England.

In case you hadn't already worked it, out he's a UKIP supporter, and would support the BNP if he thought they had a chance of coming into power.

 

[axletramp]

Wow, he's starting to make my mum look positively liberal!


...and she still uses some good old fashion 70's derogatory terms, I can tell you.

 

[Liquid]

Never mind the rest of the UK not having a say, Scots outside of Scotland can't even vote. It's farcical.

 

[axletramp]

Who made that rule up? I smell something fishy.

 

[Liquid]

Who made that rule up? I smell something fishy.

You smell correctly, sir. Alex Salmon the culprit.

 

[axletramp]

Now the cynic out there might think that something was amiss here. I mean, a rule created by the man who wants to get the majority Yes votes that excludes Scottish people not currently resident in Scotland but who might just have more reason than most to vote No (work, residency, education, family, dazed and confused, etc). Good luck with the 'independence' and 'fairness for all' that this man promises. Out with the old boss, in with the new boss...

 

[Liquid]

Sean 'Bahamas' Connery said he would never return to Scotland unless it became independent. Tragically, given his tropical abode, he is unable to even vote on the matter.

My heart bleeds.

 

[Stotty]

Meanwhile the UK squandered their oil revenues paying unemployment benefit to miners, steelworkers & shipyard workers thrown out of work and has nothing to show for 30 years of oil revenues.

Whereas it could have squandered it propping up inefficient and loss making public sector owned manufacturing, which were in the process of being ruined by the unions.

The UK economy and standard of living for the majority of people living here was transformed through the 80's and 90's.

 

[SniperRed3]

It's not mandatory to vote in this election, which is strange as it has got the possibility to change over 300 years of history. Also, no one is telling the Scots that Independence is permanent.

 

[jackargent]

Whereas it could have squandered it propping up inefficient and loss making public sector owned manufacturing, which were in the process of being ruined by the unions.

The UK economy and standard of living for the majority of people living here was transformed through the 80's and 90's.

I think we have different world views

 

[Robin]

So apparently now you have to pay a tenner to see the New Year's fireworks in London, paying to see the sky... boy that's a new low. Is there nothing they won't try and charge for!

 

[axletramp]

What happens if you're in London and you look up at the wrong time? Is it like the congestion charge and you'll get a bill in the post?