Britain - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Ross
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- United Kingdom
...so what?
Eurgh
I don't get the fuss.
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Prince William has been doing to Kate what the Tories have been doing to the rest of us for the last 4 years.
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- jackargent
I think you should thank us Scots for doing our best to keep the Royal Baby off the top of the news!!
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- England
I am born and bred English and through school and by my peers was taught how great England is until I was old enough to have a look at things and form an opinion on things English. My first opinion was oh dear why did all are ancestors for years march in to other countries overtaking them by force? completely out of order I think and then complain when they try and hit back. Did you know it was british rule who started the trouble in Israel and Palestine by giving the land away even though they don't own it? A bit arrogant don't you think?
Then I look at our government and what strikes me is for years and years is different parties get in to power and make a total botch job then get voted out and the new party say give us time to sort it then they make a total botch and so it continues, I disagreed with the Iraq war I disagree with the uk always backing America in it's conflicts when most the time they are in the wrong and are not the world police. I don't know the answer but what we have now is clearly not working.
England was a great and wonderfull place to live but in my experience I now find it not such. Jobs are non-exsistent the streets are plagued with looneys and violence, the general public are getting more and more intolerent of each other and the taxes here are beyond what the sherriiff of Nottingham did.
Am I the only brit who feels this way? I know for sure if there was an invasion of the UK and I was asked to defend my country the answer would be not a chance pal I am off to Holland or somewhere else. Given the amount of tax the working men and women pay here if you did enlist you would be expecting a tank each with huge missiles and all what is required but you would most probably get a water pistol like the forces in combat over the last few decades.
I know a lot won't agree with me and have different opinions and I would be glad to discuss are differences so come on throw them out there no holds barred.
Then I look at our government and what strikes me is for years and years is different parties get in to power and make a total botch job then get voted out and the new party say give us time to sort it then they make a total botch and so it continues, I disagreed with the Iraq war I disagree with the uk always backing America in it's conflicts when most the time they are in the wrong and are not the world police. I don't know the answer but what we have now is clearly not working.
England was a great and wonderfull place to live but in my experience I now find it not such. Jobs are non-exsistent the streets are plagued with looneys and violence, the general public are getting more and more intolerent of each other and the taxes here are beyond what the sherriiff of Nottingham did.
Am I the only brit who feels this way? I know for sure if there was an invasion of the UK and I was asked to defend my country the answer would be not a chance pal I am off to Holland or somewhere else. Given the amount of tax the working men and women pay here if you did enlist you would be expecting a tank each with huge missiles and all what is required but you would most probably get a water pistol like the forces in combat over the last few decades.
I know a lot won't agree with me and have different opinions and I would be glad to discuss are differences so come on throw them out there no holds barred.
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Okay, it sounded like an allusion to 'Broken Britain' but when was this idyllic time in the UK to live when things were great and wonderful? I have never understood this. Let's look back:
2000s - Terrorism threats from extremist Muslims, global recession, credit crunch
1990s - Black Wednesday, IRA
1980s - Many riots, IRA, strikes
1970s - Multiple economic crises, strikes, conflict in Northern Ireland IRA
1960s - Social upheaval/unrest, conflict in Northern Ireland
1950s - Rationing, economic difficulties, Suez crisis
1940s - The war, colonial struggles
1930s - General strikes, war mongering, economic difficulties
And so on. There has never been a time in this country, or indeed any country, when things were just fine. Issues evolve and things change. What's important is to learn from history and tackle the current issues.
Again, when was this time when jobs were ten a penny and paying well, where everyone lived happily ever after? What changed to ruin this utopia? Because those situations certainly didn't exist under Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown.
Israel/Palestine is not as simplistic as "The UK signed over Palestine and it all went tits up", but the UK does have a proud record of colonial oppression.
But can I ask, what is your point?
2000s - Terrorism threats from extremist Muslims, global recession, credit crunch
1990s - Black Wednesday, IRA
1980s - Many riots, IRA, strikes
1970s - Multiple economic crises, strikes, conflict in Northern Ireland IRA
1960s - Social upheaval/unrest, conflict in Northern Ireland
1950s - Rationing, economic difficulties, Suez crisis
1940s - The war, colonial struggles
1930s - General strikes, war mongering, economic difficulties
And so on. There has never been a time in this country, or indeed any country, when things were just fine. Issues evolve and things change. What's important is to learn from history and tackle the current issues.
Again, when was this time when jobs were ten a penny and paying well, where everyone lived happily ever after? What changed to ruin this utopia? Because those situations certainly didn't exist under Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown.
Israel/Palestine is not as simplistic as "The UK signed over Palestine and it all went tits up", but the UK does have a proud record of colonial oppression.
But can I ask, what is your point?
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- lipming
It's only because we had the world's largest empire, the world's most wide-spoken language and numerous pioneers in all fields of science, engineering and literature that people love say how great we used to be. Quality of life has never necessarily been better here than anywhere else in Europe, and in recent decades it's fallen noticeable behind places like Japan, Germany and the US. This country is broken. We have a selfish, corrupt government, a huge debt, some of the lowest scores in education in Europe, some of the highest teenage pregnancy rates and alcohol intake, and a weak work ethic. At this point in time there's nothing special about this place, we're not a superpower any more.
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- axletramp
Not wanting to get hung up on one point, but aren't other countries like France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc. also as guilty of ripping apart other people's countries at the point of a gun or sword and leaving repercussions for decades if not centuries? Why single out Britain for the special treatment?
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All countries have committed atrocities at some point in their history. Our's are arguably a bit further in the past than places like Germany, France and Japan. But due to various post-war factors those countries have come along a lot further than we have in the past 60 years and are far more modern and well-developed. Britain has very little to offer me other than the NHS.
I'm guessing you were responding to me?
I'm guessing you were responding to me?
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As are many other countries.
As do many other countries.
As do many other countries.
Strange, given that we produce all these highly qualified professionals. And standardised tests are never the best way to tabulate these things.
Other countries argue the same for themselves.
Other countries argue the same for themselves.
Other countries argue the same for themselves.
Who says that we are? What is being a superpower, an arrogant know-it-all country? It would seem more appropriate, superpower or not, to pool together resources for a common benefit.
Twice this year I have heard these things from the horse's mouth;
"You know what the problem with Greeks is? They're lazy. And our government is corrupt."
"You know what the problem with Slovaks is? They're lazy. And our government is corrupt."
Don't get me wrong Peter, I'm not telling you you're wrong but like @axletramp has just mentioned, why single out Britain? What makes us exceptionally worse than other countries? Certainly in a European sense all of the things you have just mentioned, save for being an ex-colonial power, are said in most other countries in central and western Europe.
For whatever reason, perhaps the problem is that we all perceive the same problems in our own countries, without doing much about it.
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I must admit that one of the most appealing aspects of the Yes campaign in the forthcoming Scottish independence referendum is the prospect of abandoning a broken political system and replacing it with something entirely different - it remains to be seen, of course, if that would actually happen in an independent Scotland. But it is an intriguing question - if you had the chance to sack your entire government and replace it with something smaller and more accountable, would you do it? It seems like a no-brainer. The fly in the ointment is what terms a newly independent and fully sovereign Scottish government might have to deal with from a now hostile rUK government who still hold many of the real levers of power, especially if the Scottish government stick to their pledge of maintaining a currency union which would ensure that the rUK government still had a massive influence over Scotland's finances...
It still surprises me how little interest there is in the Scottish referendum in other parts of the UK - do people not realise what will happen to England if there is a Yes vote? For a start, David Cameron and/or Ed Miliband will be out of a job, but I reckon that will be very small beer compared to what is to come.
It still surprises me how little interest there is in the Scottish referendum in other parts of the UK - do people not realise what will happen to England if there is a Yes vote? For a start, David Cameron and/or Ed Miliband will be out of a job, but I reckon that will be very small beer compared to what is to come.
Or as they are being called in the Scottish referendum, 'Aye pods'.
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I'm singling it out because I live here. If I lived in somewhere like Moldova or Belarus that's still feeling the after-effects of the Soviet Union I'd probably be saying the same things. Because I live there I have to experience them. And there are plenty of countries throughout Africa, South America and the Middle East that make the UK look like a haven. But the UK is not exactly the land of opportunity. I want out. Far greater opportunities lie for me in places like Japan, Australia, Scandinavia, the Low Counties and Germany.
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Reasonable. But it came across in a manner that made the issues seem endemic to the UK. Could have been a misread on my part.
Precisely, it's a matter of perspective.
Of course one wishes you luck with those endeavours, but two of those places you listed are notoriously difficult to get to and live in. The Netherlands and Germany are far easier to get to though, thanks to the EU, but it's about getting the right job at the right time. There are opportunities in the UK, otherwise professionals from other countries wouldn't be flocking to our universities.
The job market is bad for everyone at the moment, not just for people who could sooner leave the country. I found it very difficult, personally, to walk out of university and straight to Greece while my sister had been unemployed for 18 months by that point and couldn't really do much about it.
I'd have loved to have secured a job in the UK this time around. Unfortunately, it just wasn't the case. Nothing at all wrong in looking elsewhere though, as I can attest to.
Scaff
Moderator
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A point you can apply to any European country, by your logic the French started the Vietnam war.
While we don't have the finest of systems I would argue that its far from broken when compared to a large number around the globe.
Was?
On almost (if not) every one of those points you are statistically wrong.
In terms of taxes, you may want to check tax rates in the rest of Europe before running away top Holland, a shock awaits you.
I don't agree with you and I have to say that making overblown statements doesn't help support your opinions.
Dotini
(Banned)
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The obviously appealing answer is to take advantage of the smaller population and geography to move to a more direct participatory democracy with less indirect representation. OBTW, are you as infested with lobbyists over there as we are over here? It's like a whole new level of government has attached itself like a symbiont to redirect the flow of money to the already wealthy.
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I think it more comes down to the fact that we're totally powerless to do anything about it. We (the rest of the UK) have no actual say in the matter, its totally down to the whims of the Scottish voters. So we just have to await our own fate.
I personally think a Yes vote is wrong for right now. There's too much unresolved for it to work for either country as it stands. The UK govn is woefully unprepared for a 'Yes' as far as i can see. But i think there's too much momentum behind it for it to just go away in the long term. If it doesn't get voted for this time, i imagine it probably will should it crop again in the next 5-10 years (unsure of what the legal time-scale is for repeat referendums) Hopefully by then all the uncertainties will be ironed out.
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The UK government are totally unprepared for a Yes vote - but they would have at least 18 months to get used to the idea before independence was declared (proposed to happen on March 24, 2016). I seriously doubt it will happen that fast personally, but a Yes vote will mean changes happening in Westminster and across the UK almost from Day 1... indeed, the markets are already reacting, and the referendum is still 9 days away!!
Funnily enough, the single solitary poll that has put the Yes camp in front (YouGov, 2-5th Sept) actually saw 53% of respondents say they would vote No!!! The result, however, was 'weighted' (common practice, apparently) to better reflect the demographics of the election, which turned a 47-53% No vote into a 51-49% Yes vote. Meanwhile, about £2billion was wiped off the value of Scottish-based companies in one day, and Sterling dropped by 1% against the dollar.
Funnily enough, the single solitary poll that has put the Yes camp in front (YouGov, 2-5th Sept) actually saw 53% of respondents say they would vote No!!! The result, however, was 'weighted' (common practice, apparently) to better reflect the demographics of the election, which turned a 47-53% No vote into a 51-49% Yes vote. Meanwhile, about £2billion was wiped off the value of Scottish-based companies in one day, and Sterling dropped by 1% against the dollar.
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- haitch40
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I am sorry but good luck with those. For Japan because I know the situation it is like this. You don't speak near fluent Japanese? Well you are only good for a job as an English teacher.
Oh you are now fluent in Japanese? What sets you apart from the Japanese people applying for the job? You worked as an English teacher for 10 years? So you did nothing with your life for 10 years?
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I'm told that Shetlanders want a referendum of their own in the event of a Yes vote - to secede with Scotland, to remain with the UK or to become independent themselves.
This has quite significant problems for Salmond, as 90% of Scotland's oil revenue (itself 90% of the UK's) comes from Shetland...
My colleague for a couple of days in Spain recently works for a Scottish newspaper and he effectively summarised it as "We don't want independence from England. We want independence from Westminster.". Join the club!
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No-one can say for certain - but the fact is that there is likely to be big changes even if Scotland votes No to independence. A Yes vote, however, could prove to be the catalyst for big changes much sooner than most people in England and the rest of the UK are seemingly aware of.
One thing is for certain, however... if there is a Yes vote next Thursday, there will be long and potentially acrimonious 'negotiations' (e.g. slanging matches) between the Scottish government and Westminster over just about every issue under the Sun and it will probably not be pretty. Meanwhile, it could be a rollercoaster ride for anyone with a mortgage, stocks, a pension or a job that relies on trade with rUK or UK government funding.
I think it is nearer 50-67% of Scottish oil is in Shetland's waters, but the point is much the same. There was indeed a petition about giving Shetland and Orkney a referendum on staying part of the UK in the event of a Yes vote on Sept 18th, but it only garnered something like 1,000 votes and as far as I am aware, it is now closed. But, 'the Shetland card' remains one potential spoiler that Westminster could play, albeit at the risk of starting a conflict that would be politically very damaging... I can't see it happening, personally.
That said, it does raise the question - does that oil actually "belong" to the 23,000 people on Shetland? I'd say it doesn't. But the nationalists in Scotland would tear you apart if you had the temerity to suggest that the 90% of UK oil and gas in Scotland's waters doesn't belong to the 5 million people in Scotland...
Quite... if Scotland does vote Yes, I think it is very likely that there will be big changes in the way England and the rest of the UK is run - and I'd imagine that is quite a tantalizing prospect for many people.
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ExigeEvan
Premium
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@Touring Mars - It's huge news where I work
A lot of my colleagues are Scottish and so are our suppliers (sadly a visit on the 18th to Glasgow has been cancelled so my chance to make a difference has gone), and we depend on the ease of movement of controlled material, information and people in and out of Scotland. Without it, or with significant obstacles, it'll be a nightmare!
A lot of my colleagues are Scottish and so are our suppliers (sadly a visit on the 18th to Glasgow has been cancelled so my chance to make a difference has gone), and we depend on the ease of movement of controlled material, information and people in and out of Scotland. Without it, or with significant obstacles, it'll be a nightmare!
