Britain - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

I'm sure TenEightyOne can find someone to get her off on a technicality

I understand that being the case, with the law being black and white and all, but personally I think, 'a foot in the door' versus wasting time to arrest/get a warrant was probably a good call.

Ha, if only

And to be clear, I took the hit, I paid my fine, there was no technicality to be had. The woman I was arguing with when I went through Bredbury Interchange at a steaming 59mph should have been made to pay as it was her infuriating facile nattering that caused the problem.

The law is black and white and every time small-but-clear erosions happen, and become normal, so the law is eroded. If it comes to it there IS a very clear line between the police entering a property and not entering a property, and a very symbolic one at that. It's the foot-in-the-door. "See? I'm over the line". It's literal as well as figurative, I feel the officer would be well aware of that.

The policing in question here, IF there was actually any, is undertaken by equipment - how much does it matter what uniform the person drinking coffee and eating sandwiches wears?

This is going to sound sniffy; an Officer of the Law is empowered to arrest, to seize, to form a view that has legal standing.

She or he could give evidence against me. There's a proven capacity for officers to collect evidence and they are considered to be unperjurable witnesses in court. The same isn't true of me. Or of you.

But you or I could operate camera in a marked police vehicle, providing we qualified and brought our own sandwiches. I accept that our backgrounds would be checked (at least I hope that's a requirement) but nonetheless we'd be civilians collected criminal evidence for presentation to a judge in a criminal court.

I think that's probably legal (because I'm sure it's widespread and I'm sure there's an interpretation of Police Reform or PCA that allows it), but I think it shouldn't be because it represents exactly the kind of erosion that I was talking about.

Look forward to finding Irene from the cornershop with her hands in your drawers.

 

[LeMansAid]

I blame the parents. Grant Pain? Seems like he was handed a mandate at a very early age.

At the very least it's a bad look. If the (non)officers are trying to be imposing, knowing your stuff is more useful than a foot in the door. As @Liquid pointed to, a simple explanation (either at the van or even doorstep stage) of how it all falls within regulations would have been much more effective at shutting down the motivated derider.

I'm white trash yada, yada..... Here, tell these people something they don't know about me.

That's how you shut someone down. The confident telling of an unflattering truth can be quite effective when all others are lesser alternatives.

 

[Liquid]

I think that's probably legal (because I'm sure it's widespread and I'm sure there's an interpretation of Police Reform or PCA that allows it), but I think it shouldn't be because it represents exactly the kind of erosion that I was talking about.

I certainly hope it's legal. Just because it's widespread doesn't make it necessarily correct. The police could just be doing their own thing knowing the public won't know or care. I mean, who's going to bother checking the rule book? The Attorney General, one would think.

At the very least, this should raise questions and discussion about exactly how we are policed and how the police works.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Look forward to finding Irene from the cornershop with her hands in your drawers.

More likely to be Ioanna from the cornershop around these parts... and I might not have a problem with her putting her hands in my drawers

 

[Dotini]

"John the Beatle" beheaded the American freelancer Foley - but only after he wouldn't pay a $100,000,000 ransom.

You Brits were a lot more charming back in '64.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eaded-journalist-is-Londoner-called-John.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/w...sed-for-ransom-before-killing-journalist.html

 

[axletramp]

Struggling to find where it says 'Thou shalt not kill but only if you're paid not to do so' in any religion. ISIS appear to want it both ways - a caliphate governed by the laws of the Koran that's gained by selectively ignoring them.

 

[Dotini]

Struggling to find where it says 'Thou shalt not kill but only if you're paid not to do so' in any religion. ISIS appear to want it both ways - a caliphate governed by the laws of the Koran that's gained by selectively ignoring them.

Wasn't the paying of ransoms for captured nobility a common theme in medieval (Christian) Britain and Europe?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Wasn't the paying of ransoms for captured nobility a common theme in medieval (Christian) Britain and Europe?

Absolutely, it's normal. Not sure why people are so shocked at ISIS demanding a ransom. It's as much for publicity as anything (which the papers are giving them in spades).

ISIS knew it would never be paid, they may be mad but they aren't stupid.

Now, we're told, the girls and boys of the Special Air Squadron are waiting to capture "Jihad John", a Ladybird book I seem to have missed out on in childhood.

 

[axletramp]

Wasn't the paying of ransoms for captured nobility a common theme in medieval (Christian) Britain and Europe?

Yes, in a completely different and less educated era. But my point was about twisted double standards (as they were in medieval Christian times too).

 

[Dotini]

Yes, in a completely different and less educated era. But my point was about twisted double standards (as they were in medieval Christian times too).

Your "grubby European allies", France, Spain, Switzerland and Austria, have seen fit to undermine our higher standards of civilization by allowing their citizens to continue life. We Yanks and Brits would definitely prefer to prefer the honor, glory and sheer civility of beheading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...allies-undermine-US-negotiate-terrorists.html

 

[TenEightyOne]

Your "grubby European allies", France, Spain, Switzerland and Austria, have seen fit to undermine our higher standards of civilization by allowing their citizens to continue life. We Yanks and Brits would definitely prefer to prefer the honor, glory and sheer civility of beheading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...allies-undermine-US-negotiate-terrorists.html

...or prefer not set a precedent for trading human life, thereby making giving humans zero-value as a bargaining tool

Obviously I'd change my mind in an instant in the right circumstances...

 

[axletramp]

If financial gain is the reason for taking these hostages (either that or to demand the release of prisoners) then having a lower or non-existent price on your head must lower your chances of capture over other nations who act as your cash cow. However, I think there are significantly higher political motivations for taking US and UK hostages. Doesn't stop them asking for cash though does it, then acting against the word of the Koran and killing them when the money doesn't turn up. There also doesn't appear to be much evidence to suggest not paying actually decreases your chance of being taken. Perhaps the White House and Whitehall have different stats on that.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Sir Cliff, lover of "new balls" and The Young Ones is being investigated over "historic allegations of sexual impropriety against a minor". The BBC had a tipoff that the police were going to raid his country pile and were waiting to see them arrive. Justice will take its course and Cliff, aka Harry Webb, will be exonerated or charged as appropriate.

What disturbs me is the BBC being called before Vaz to explain their actions. The Director General rightly says that the BBC must protect its sources (as per the Charter and the very nature of journalism) and point out that the BBC were not the only channel to provide extensive coverage.

I'm uncomfortable with this call-to-committee, the case is a live investigation and, while I understand that the behaviour of the media with regards to privacy has been found wanting in Britain in recent high-profile cases, this is during the fact rather than after.


BBC link.

 

[Famine]

Keith Vaz acting as an oversight for professional ethics is quite like Rolf Harris hosting an early morning children's TV show with a predominantly youth live audience.


Ooooh, hang on a mo...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Keith Vaz acting as an oversight for professional ethics is quite like Rolf Harris hosting an early morning children's TV show with a predominantly youth live audience..

On the subject of Mr. Fix-It (Keith Vaz, of course!) he's living proof that it's not what you know, it's how quickly people forget

 

[Robin]

oops wrong thread.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Putting this only in Britain thread because we're 'different'...

Today I came to the conclusion that I no longer go along with tipping for service at Restaurants. We have a decent minimum wage, we're approaching an acceptance of a 'living wage', so why am I paying people extra to perform a job to the standard I expect? What does everyone else think?

Perhaps I've just eaten at too many restaurants and had too much poor service this week.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Putting this only in Britain thread because we're 'different'...

Today I came to the conclusion that I no longer go along with tipping for service at Restaurants. We have a decent minimum wage, we're approaching an acceptance of a 'living wage', so why am I paying people extra to perform a job to the standard I expect? What does everyone else think?

Perhaps I've just eaten at too many restaurants and had too much poor service this week.

I agree completely.

If I'm impressed with the service I tip the staff "in-hand", it's up to them what they do with it afterwards. This idea that the customers pay twice for the staff is just assholes.

I've seen too many businesses where the "official tip jar" is controlled by the owners, it doesn't go to the people who actually did the hard work waiting-on.

 

[dhandeh]

Putting this only in Britain thread because we're 'different'...

Today I came to the conclusion that I no longer go along with tipping for service at Restaurants. We have a decent minimum wage, we're approaching an acceptance of a 'living wage', so why am I paying people extra to perform a job to the standard I expect? What does everyone else think?

Perhaps I've just eaten at too many restaurants and had too much poor service this week.

Language Warning

 

[Liquid]

I hate tipping. The assumption of tipping, specifically. I will not tip when prompted. Tipping is reserved exclusively for when I feel I have had good service and feel the staff members deserve it but this is rare. As @ExigeEvan said, it just goes into an extra coffers pot for the owners and that's not fair.

Want to charge extra? Call it a service charge. Don't make tips mandatory. Even then, an outrageous service charge would discourage me from going to said establishment.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yeah I've never felt tipping is mandatory, and I've seen how it is in the US, but when I was out there the service was exceptional (and I wasn't paying. ..).

That said, I will still tip good service. But probably only 5%. I generally avoid the tip on the card machine, though I did use it this week because I didn't have any change on the one day I felt the service justified it.

Glad I'm not the only one feeling this way.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't tip, no matter how good the service is. It's your job to do a good job.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If a menu says that service is 10% extra that is considered part of the "advertised price", to be clear. Reductions in that are by negotiation with the restaurant. Complain loudly if it was really bad, that's only happened to me a couple of times... they're quick to get you out of the door for any cash they can get

Other tipping... as I said, "in-hand" to the staff. If they're not allowed to accept it "in-hand" then the restaurant doesn't get it.

 

[axletramp]

I do tend to tip and only don't when I've felt the service is below par or any situation wasn't sorted out in timely manner. If I'm ever in the 'no tip zone' then I've either told them or resorted to blatant mumbling and raised eyebrows at anything below par (like a grumpy old bugger). And I never tend to tip the drinks, only the food. Anyone can open a bottle or pull a beer, but well presented and delivered food can make an evening.

America takes it to a different level though, even at buffets which bugs me. I mean, what exactly have you done to earn the tip? I did all the walking and serving!

 

[Dotini]

Has the Scottish separatist won the debate?

 

[Touring Mars]

Depends what you mean - there was a leader's debate last night and Salmond was judged to have won by most pundits. However, Darling was judged to have won the previous debate, but he seemed more intent on sticking to the same arguments that scored him points last time around rather than focusing on other issues. This was a big mistake in my view, because Salmond had clearly anticipated this and came out with a much stronger response - albeit still a wholly unsatisfactory one - but the last time he was floundering and simply refused to answer the question, much to his embarrassment.

The biggest issue in these debates thus far has been about the currency - Salmond now argues that a Yes vote will give him a mandate to press for a currency union with the rest of the UK, and that no-one can deny the "sovereign will" of the people of Scotland - an independent Scotland will get what it demands, no matter how bad an idea it is or what the other parties in a so-called 'agreement' might want for themselves. But Salmond wasn't too keen to dwell on how he intends to achieve this in reality, which is to threaten the remaining UK with debt default. Salmond argues that if we are no longer allowed to use Sterling, that constitutes a denial of our 'fair share' of "assets", and thus justifies an independent Scotland not taking a share of the UK national debt. He's quick to point out that Scotland will happily take its share of the national debt, but only on the condition that a currency union is agreed, which appears unlikely. If Salmond doesn't get the currency union he wants, then he says that Scotland will not be liable for any UK debt... who knew debt reduction could be so simple!! Catalonia will be watching with great interest, no doubt. Salmond also appears to think that Westminster's decision to guarantee all UK national debt in all circumstances is in some way an acceptance that a Scottish default would be OK. The UK government has no choice but to guarantee the debt no matter what Scotland does, but Salmond seems to be completely ignoring the consequences for Scotland if we end up reneging on our share of the debt.

The debate will rage on until the 18th of September, and there is one more televised debate between two three-person teams to be held soon. Salmond has now challenged David Cameron to a debate, but don't hold your breath on that. Even I thought that Salmond sounded better and appeared to win the majority of the arguments last night, but I fear that the Yes campaign are very much relying on style over substance, and they fall very, very short when it comes to answering some very fundamental questions, such as what will happen if Spain, Belgium or rUK veto our entry into the EU, or what happens when the EU refuse to accept an independent Scotland because the Scottish government have made it clear that we will not accept the Euro. And that's just scratching the surface...

 

[MatskiMonk]

America takes it to a different level though, even at buffets which bugs me. I mean, what exactly have you done to earn the tip? I did all the walking and serving!

Tip Yourself = Profit!

I would have thought Jersey, being both a tourist destination and quite affluent, tipping would be commonplace, though I admit, I've not been there since I was old enough to be the one paying the bills?

Tip culture in America is at another level, but at the same time, I've found their service to be way superior to ours, and in all fairness they probably earn less than their counterparts over here, so It doesn't grate on me as much over there.

In the UK though, forget it. I worked my ass off selling Hi-Fi, and I never got to expect a tip! Sure you could argue it's a cushy job, but I'm damn sure spending between 20 mins and 6 hours servicing a customers requirements, answering their questions, moving around equipment setting it to demo it, getting them cups of coffee, giving diplomatic answers to stupid questions, listening to their chosen demo CD's for hours, being asked to throw in the extras FOC, carrying equipment to their car which is "only round the corner!", offering free after sales advice and support on set-up ....etc, etc, etc, is worthy of more than getting asked for a healthy discount!!!!!!

 

[Robin]

I fully expect this video to go viral on account of how appalling it is.



Getting rid of tax discs really is the stupidest idea in the world. Plus guess how much road tax will come down on the back of the savings they make.... that's right.

 

[axletramp]

Get rid of road tax completely and tax the fuel. The drivers who use the roads more and/or drive less efficient vehicles have to pay the most. Seems fair to me, works well over here and encourages the use of more fuel efficient vehicles.

 

[ExigeEvan]

More importantly to remember, you will no longer buy a car with a valid tax disc .

The previous owner will be refunded what remains on the disc when the V5 is returned.