Britain - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

He has already been an MP in the past. This is not earth shattering news.

It isn't in the sense of him becoming an MP but it is in the sense that many inside and outside the Conservative party see him as being a credible threat to Cameron's leadership in the long term. BJ is scoffing at the very idea, of course. "It could be 2030 before David Cameron resigns, the person who'll replace him is probably a teenager now!", to paraphrase him on t'talkies earlier.

However, despite his amiable, bluffing, effusive buffoonery he's a tremendously intelligent, shrewd and ambitious man. I think he has his sights set on the top job and others do too. And it seems credible that he could succeed.

 

[Liquid]

I really hope that blunderbuss, that aloof Wodehousian oaf, never becomes the leader of a major political party.

Inb4 David Cameron is already leader.

 

[DK]

I wouldn't mind him if he scrapped Cameron's "Snooper's Charter".

 

[Liquid]

"It's Scotland's pound and we are keeping it."

No, Scottish 'Independent' Movement, it isn't. It's the United Kingdom's pound, the British pound. Being reliant on another country's currency taxes the very definition of independent.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[TenEightyOne]

No, Scottish 'Independent' Movement, it isn't. It's the United Kingdom's pound, the British pound. Being reliant on another country's currency taxes the very definition of independent.

No, cos Euro.

 

[Liquid]

No, cos Euro.

No country outside of the Eurozone (or trying to join the Eurozone) uses the Euro. It's an inclusive agreement. Can you imagine someone voting to leave the Eurozone but retaining the currency?

Precisely because of the EEC, more specifically the European Exchange Mechanism, the Sterling Zone has been dead since 1971. Scotland can't have a pegged pound and be independent. Only the crown dependencies have their own version of 'our' pound. And they are not independent.

Scotland could do an Egypt and have its own actually independent currency called a pound, but they can't simply be independent and still use 'our' pound. In fact, the old Scottish coinage was called the dollar, funnily enough.

 

[TenEightyOne]

No country outside of the Eurozone (or trying to join the Eurozone) uses the Euro. It's an inclusive agreement. Can you imagine someone voting to leave the Eurozone but retaining the currency?

That view fails to separate the monetary mechanism from the parliamentary mechanism. Scotland is asking for full parliamentary independence in governance and law. It wishes to remain part of what I like to think of as "Pound-land".

 

[KSaiyu]

Attention all Israelis: The leader of the "Respect" party doesn't want your kind visiting the many sights of Bradford.

 

[Liquid]

It wishes to remain part of what I like to think of as "Pound-land".

Poundland, or the remnants of the Sterling Zone if you will, is the crown dependencies such as Manx, Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark et al. The United Kingdom represents them internationally and is responsible for their defences so if Scotland does bitch and whine and throw their toys out of the pram for this "independence but with currency" then they can't complain about Trident or North Sea oil because those would still fall under British defence, British protection and British representation internationally.

So two of the big issues would remain unresolved and conflicted. Marvellous.

I have no problem with Scotland going independent. I fully believe in the right to self-determination. But it's either in or out. What is being presented sounds like a pursue for greater autonomy, which is also fine, but if that's the case then ask for autonomy instead of 'independence'.

If Scotland wants to leave the Union, they cannot dictate terms. It can't be "independent but we still want X, Y, Z."

 

[PeterJB]

Whenever I hear Poundland I just think of the store where you can buy stuff for £1 that would cost 50p everywhere else.

 

[ExigeEvan]

That view fails to separate the monetary mechanism from the parliamentary mechanism. Scotland is asking for full parliamentary independence in governance and law. It wishes to remain part of what I like to think of as "Pound-land".

Governance has a huge impact on monetary control. Quantitative Easing for one has been a huge "blunt knife" in the most recent economic down turn. Taxes and distribution of wealth, foreign exchange rates and house prices are all associated with currency and seem degree of control over it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Governance has a huge impact on monetary control. Quantitative Easing for one has been a huge "blunt knife" in the most recent economic down turn. Taxes and distribution of wealth, foreign exchange rates and house prices are all associated with currency and seem degree of control over it.

True, but Scotland already issues its own version of the currency and can divorce from the UK in a number of ways that allow it to keep the pound.

Don't forget that Scotland already has a much-divorced financial system.

Regardless of whether Scotland has a seat on the MPC, the Bank of England does not need to have any other formal relationship with the Scottish banking system if Scotland continues to be ‘sterlingised’. Furthermore, an independent Scotland would not need to nationalise the issue of banknotes under any of the three possible monetary standards, just as it does not rely on the Bank of England to issue Scotland’s common paper currency today. Private Scottish banks can continue to issue banknotes, obviating the need for government note-issue either by a central bank or by a currency board.

 

[TheCracker]

Attention all Israelis: The leader of the "Respect" party doesn't want your kind visiting the many sights of Bradford.

Thankfully it's not like the next-door city of Leeds has one of the highest Jewish population in the country. Oh wait a minute, it has!!!

Also, perhaps even more thankfully, Bradford is a hole that no one would want to visit anyway.

 

[ExigeEvan]

True, but Scotland already issues its own version of the currency and can divorce from the UK in a number of ways that allow it to keep the pound.

Don't forget that Scotland already has a much-divorced financial system.

I almost stopped reading when I read this...

Ecuador is on the US dollar standard, but the US government was not compelled to take action when Ecuador defaulted on sovereign debts in 2008, and the event had no repercussions for the US dollar.

The population, geographical and historical difference doesn't even make it worth mentioning.


So my understanding is that as long as Scotland continues to issue notes the way it does already then there's no change. But Scottish banks only issue notes based on what they have in deposits to cover? So should the Scottish government wish to utilise Quantitative Easing they would effectively be de-valuing the Scottish notes against the Welsh-English notes, removing the parity?

 

[Liquid]

Scotland and Northern Ireland don't issue 'their own version' of the pound. No Scottish or Irish banknote is legal tender, even in their own territories. Only Bank of England notes are legal tender. Scottish and Irish notes are promissory notes; that is, a £10 Clydesdale banknote promises to be exchanged for the correct Bank of England £10 when legally required.

The Scottish and Irish banknote issuing banks do not have any reserves to back this up, as is the way with fiat currency. They literally have big blank I.O.Us worth £xxx million which 'back-up' their money to be guaranteed by Bank of England notes.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I almost stopped reading when I read this...

The population, geographical and historical difference doesn't even make it worth mentioning.

I don't write the IEA articles or moderate them... I just linked them. I think the comparison's a decent one though, Ecuador has three times the people in four times the area, admittedly the UK falls short in the US side of the ratio.

@Liquid, Clydesdale do have their own reserve, the BoE underwrite is used for the exchange rate for obvious reasons. That mechanism clearly couldn't stay intact. As the article pointed out there are a number of methods that Scotland could use to remain part of Poundland.

Here are Carney's thoughts on it; exchange damping gets an obvious mention.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't write the IEA articles or moderate them... I just linked them. I think the comparison's a decent one though, Ecuador has three times the people in four times the area, admittedly the UK falls short in the US side of the ratio.

Or the fact they don't share a border, a language, history or similar levels of trade.


I think the issue here is that for Scotland to successfully adopt Sterling through thick and thin there would have to be some agreement on fiscal rules. And Osbourne isn't prepared to do that because it would mean losing some flexibility on what could be done with Sterling.

 

[Touring Mars]

Uh Oh... another 'say it ain't so' story in the making?

Police are investigating Sir Cliff Richard for 'historical sex offences'...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28790718

 

[axletramp]

"I got myself a crying, walking, sleeping, talking, living doll." Hmm....

 

[Liquid]

[Insert joke about The Young Ones]

 

[axletramp]

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[TheCracker]

Sexual offenses to what? I thought the guy was asexual?

 

[DK]

Meanwhile, the Daily Express has just imploded.

 

[Liquid]

He likes tall speakers.
He likes small speakers.

We might be finding out what else he likes.

 

[Touring Mars]

Meanwhile, in Berkhamstead...

 

[axletramp]

Hemel Hempstead has it coming.

 

[Liquid]

"Canadian Totem Pole"

 

[axletramp]

I like Waitrose. I'd never thought of them as bollocks before.

 

[Wiegert]

"STAY SAFE: Stay Away From The Edge"

Or wear protection.

Meanwhile, the Daily Express has just imploded.

They do that every time the weather looks a bit nippy.

 

[TheCracker]

Canal Fields is only one letter away from accuracy.