Britain - The Official Thread

[Scaff]

Seems to be the old enemy avocado, along with evil continental (ie German!) cheese.

Now Gen Z are waging war on our sandwiches!

Popular bread manufacturer Allinson's launched its Great British Sandwich Study to lift the lids on the nation's lunchboxes and reveal their changing tastes for the beloved snack.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Daily Heil will spout any old ***** to get an anti-woke clickbait headline.

Scaff, proudly annoying the Mail since 1970 with my existence.

 

[Liquid]

Never a truer example of:

Everything I don't like is woke.
All change is woke.

 

[Liquid]

Well worth the read. Ian Hislop has done more to expose grooming gangs and sex abusers than any right-wing hot air ballon has.

 

[Fezzik]

Assisted Dying Bill passed its first stage in the HoC. I'm a bit surprised, MPs are vastly more religious than the general population and the main opposition to the legislation has been backed (in disguise) by "pro-life"/anti abortion groups.

 

[Touring Mars]

Assisted Dying Bill passed its first stage in the HoC. I'm a bit surprised, MPs are vastly more religious than the general population and the main opposition to the legislation has been backed (in disguise) by "pro-life"/anti abortion groups.

A great result, though it is interesting to see how the vote was split. As you might expect, Tory MPs were mostly against, but the Labour vote was closer than I thought, with 147 voting against. Full breakdown of the vote is here: https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/1877

Main parties: For - Against

Lab: 234 - 147
Cons: 23 - 92
Lib Dems: 61 - 11

 

[Fezzik]

Yeah this one was definitely not on party/left-right lines - not often you'd get Rayner/Corbyn/Abbott voting alongside Farage/Badenoch/Braverman.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Wonder if this will wake enough of the country up to stop treating it like a quasi-religion (probably not):

Elderly patient left unable to swallow after 52-hour A&E wait

Report highlights ‘shocking’ example of man left unable to swallow after waiting over two days mostly on a bed in a corridor without regular medication

www.theguardian.com

An elderly man was left unable to swallow after waiting over two days in A&E without being given regular medication, and died four weeks later.

In a “shocking” case that has raised fresh concerns over the state of urgent NHS care, the 85-year-old was sent to a hospital emergency department after a routine appointment. Amid massive delays, his A&E wait went into a third day, with most of it spent on a bed in the corridor.

He had Parkinson’s disease and required medicine at various intervals to control his symptoms. During his time in A&E, the man should have received 18 doses but seven were not given and three were given late, according to a report from the Health Services Safety Investigations Body (HSSIB).

As I advise others, if you are fit and able, you should seriously consider taking out private medical insurance. Hence, you get coverage before it is denied for a pre-existing condition.

Although it wouldn't help in this tragic situation, you'd be mitigating the damage that a broken health service can do to you.

EDIT:


Hahaha, the gaslighting by the state continues:



Context:
In the UK police officers are generally unarmed.
Armed police are deployed in specific circumstances.
It is very much a new thing that armed police are present at Christmas markets.
Turning off replies when posts tell the truth of the situation is pretty standard - London's mayor doesn't even bother turning them on in the first place.

Welcome to 2024 UK.

 

[Keef]

Wonder if this will wake enough of the country up to stop treating it like a quasi-religion (probably not):

Elderly patient left unable to swallow after 52-hour A&E wait

Report highlights ‘shocking’ example of man left unable to swallow after waiting over two days mostly on a bed in a corridor without regular medication

www.theguardian.com

As I advise others, if you are fit and able, you should seriously consider taking out private medical insurance. Hence, you get coverage before it is denied for a pre-existing condition.

Although it wouldn't help in this tragic situation, you'd be mitigating the damage that a broken health service can do to you.

EDIT:


Hahaha, the gaslighting by the state continues:



Context:
In the UK police officers are generally unarmed.
Armed police are deployed in specific circumstances.
It is very much a new thing that armed police are present at Christmas markets.
Turning off replies when posts tell the truth of the situation is pretty standard - London's mayor doesn't even bother turning them on in the first place.

Welcome to 2024 UK.

America's problem is that at no point in its history were its people truly united by anything except the freedom to make money, or the freedom to pray to weird gods, etc. Freedom necessarily meant something different to everybody. So there has never really been a consensus that could result in a generally peaceful and discplined populace like an unarmed UK or Germany or something like that. Americans are inherently selfish, that's the point, but it causes problems which has basically always been solved by bullets.

I think you guys are finding out what happens when a whole bunch of other people show up who don't share your values. Perhaps those values were never sustainable without a somewhat homogenous culture.

 

[Scaff]

Wonder if this will wake enough of the country up to stop treating it like a quasi-religion (probably not):

Elderly patient left unable to swallow after 52-hour A&E wait

Report highlights ‘shocking’ example of man left unable to swallow after waiting over two days mostly on a bed in a corridor without regular medication

www.theguardian.com

As I advise others, if you are fit and able, you should seriously consider taking out private medical insurance. Hence, you get coverage before it is denied for a pre-existing condition.

Although it wouldn't help in this tragic situation, you'd be mitigating the damage that a broken health service can do to you.

EDIT:

Yep, because the UK going private is going to solve the underfunding of the NHS.

Hahaha, the gaslighting by the state continues:

If true, they are not the only ones....

Context:
In the UK police officers are generally unarmed.

Only if you don't consider Tasers, batons and Pepper Spray being armed

Armed police are deployed in specific circumstances.

Two branches are always equipped with firearms (PSNI and CNC) and every force has armed (firearms) vehicle deployments at all times (Armed Response Units), and ports of entry/exit into the UK have armed (firearms) police as standard. The majority of officers are not equipped with firearms because policing in the UK doesn't warrant it.

It is very much a new thing that armed police are present at Christmas markets.

It is, but that Twitter post doesn't mention Christmas Markets, are you talking about one specific one or all of them? As far as I can find they have not mentioned locations or events yet, and while I would agree that this could be Police overreach, it could also be in response to a specific threat that they are not able to disclose.

Turning off replies when posts tell the truth of the situation is pretty standard - London's mayor doesn't even bother turning them on in the first place.

What does that have to do with a Twitter post from Surrey Police, a county that the Mayor of London doesn't even cover?

Welcome to 2024 UK.

...and you complain about gaslighting, yet are happy to post inaccurately and claim context that isn't even accurate.

 

[MatskiMonk]

If only we'd have...

checks notes..

... banned cousin marriage.

 

[UKMikey]

Forget about that. What does the Daily Mail comments section say? That's what's really important.

 

[HenrySwanson]

America's problem is that at no point in its history were its people truly united by anything except the freedom to make money, or the freedom to pray to weird gods, etc. Freedom necessarily meant something different to everybody. So there has never really been a consensus that could result in a generally peaceful and discplined populace like an unarmed UK or Germany or something like that. Americans are inherently selfish, that's the point, but it causes problems which has basically always been solved by bullets.

I think you guys are finding out what happens when a whole bunch of other people show up who don't share your values. Perhaps those values were never sustainable without a somewhat homogenous culture.

It's finding what unites us and working on integration or assimilation that's the issue.

Here is a little about Singapore's approach:

https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/185181/CO14211.pdf

Singapore’s multicultural policies primarily encourage the integration of the ‘races’, but it nonetheless recognises the need for new citizens to assimilate into a common Singaporean identity to foster nationalism.

If you have access to BBC shows the recent 2 part program on immigration that involved many key players from the late 90s to the present is a brilliant watch exploring how mass migration unfolded over many years.

I'm afraid that the horse has already bolted, and it's too late to do anything especially meaningful, which is where the likes of Farage and Trump come in, promising easy fixes that will promote division. The Right will crack down hard on "othering" people, while the Left will continue to piss on you and tell you it's raining. I can't see a way to coalesce such disparate cultures without something radical coming from the government.

What I find fascinating about cultural homogeneity is that it may paradoxically create more acceptance than "multiculturalism".

Here are the results of research into people of African descent's experiences in EU countries:

Poland: Experiences of people of African descent in the EU

migrant-integration.ec.europa.eu

According to a recently published report by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA), Poland stands out among 13 EU countries surveyed for its comparatively low levels of reported discrimination against people who are black and belong to the African diaspora. Respondents in Poland also tended to report higher levels of integration than respondents in other countries.

Research for this report was conducted in 2022 among a sample of 6 752 people of African descent in 13 EU countries, including Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Spain and Sweden.

Poland is the country with the lowest levels of discrimination. Do you think Poland is looking at Germany, France, the UK and saying they need to course correct and copy what we did?

 

[UKMikey]

For anyone who remembers the cries from impoverished parents of that their kids' private school education and boarding fees will be subject to VAT under the new government, this cartoon may provide some perspective.

I wouldn't go so far to say those schools should be abolished but I don't see why they should receive taxpayer funding. I'm not even sure their boarding and education fees should be tax exempt, which they won't be from next year.

 

[Scaff]

What I find fascinating about cultural homogeneity is that it may paradoxically create more acceptance than "multiculturalism".

So we are about to find a source that indicates Poland operating a policy of "cultural homogeneity" successfully beating out the uber-nasty "multiculturalism" (watch out kids, it's almost as evil as DEI).

Here are the results of research into people of African descent's experiences in EU countries:

Poland: Experiences of people of African descent in the EU

migrant-integration.ec.europa.eu

Poland is the country with the lowest levels of discrimination. Do you think Poland is looking at Germany, France, the UK and saying they need to course correct and copy what we did?

Oh wait it doesn't even mention cultural homogeneity at all (how on earth did you miss the fact that the full paper only uses the word cultural four times, none in the context of homogeneity - it seems that would be the first thing to check), rather it focuses on the fact that Poland has the highest levels of social integration...

"In addition to addressing discrimination issues, the survey covered topics related to integration in the areas of education, employment, housing, and health. Respondents of African descent living in Poland tended to exhibit better indicators in these areas than respondents in other European countries. For example, Poland had the highest proportion of respondents in paid work (83%) and the lowest proportion in elementary employment (9%). Only in Poland was the general population more likely to live in overcrowded housing than the respondents (36% and 21% respectively). Poland also had the lowest proportion of respondents with an unmet need for a medical examination or treatment (4%)."

...so, once again you have misrepresented a source (and it's getting to the point where that can no longer be seen as occurring in error). It rather seems that your source is saying that if you treat immigrants with respect, giving them access to work, housing and social security networks it will foster integration itself (oddly what the evil Left is suggesting).

The report (and yes I read it) goes so far in undermining your claim that one of the identifiers used to select interview subjects is cultural differences...

"societal groups marked in particular by common nationality, religious faith, language, cultural and traditional origins and backgrounds"

...if Poland had achieved success via "cultural homogeneity", given that it was a key identifier, it strikes me as odd that this wasn't called out!

It's almost like you scan-read an extract, and then thought '**** it, that's close enough' and then misrepresented it and hoped most wouldn't read the extract or the full paper.

The claim of a homogeneous cultural identity in Poland is a creation of the far-right in Poland (oh look - a centrist parroting the lines of the far-right - what a shocker), with the UN finding...

"The Special Rapporteur testified to the vibrant and diverse cultural life she experienced during her visit, adding that “Polish identity does not belong to any one group, or any one opinion bloc alone, but to all the citizens of Poland.”

...hang on, that bears repeating...

"vibrant and diverse cultural life"

Idea of ‘homogenous’ Polish culture is a myth: UN human rights expert

An independent UN rights expert has accused the Polish Government of disseminating the “myth” of a “homogenous” Polish culture, in a statement released on Friday.

news.un.org

 

[Liquid]

Silesians, Gorals and Ruthenians would attest to Polish identity not being totally homogenous, three stateless ethnic groups who are "close enough", as well as the long history of German, Lithuanian and Czech border population fluctuation.

Most Polish citizens identify as Polish but that doesn't mean all of them are Polish. And of course, if you look hard enough (or care enough) you'll find that many countries have unrecognised minorities or stateless ethnic groups with their own distinct culture. Even in England, you superficially have Scouse Not English on Merseyside.

 

[Scaff]

Silesians, Gorals and Ruthenians would attest to Polish identity not being totally homogenous, three stateless ethnic groups who are "close enough", as well as the long history of German, Lithuanian and Czech border population fluctuation.

Most Polish citizens identify as Polish but that doesn't mean all of them are Polish. And of course, if you look hard enough (or care enough) you'll find that many countries have unrecognised minorities or stateless ethnic groups with their own distinct culture. Even in England, you superficially have Scouse Not English on Merseyside.

Spot on, it's why when the tories were banging on about 'British Cultural Values' it fell apart as soon as anyone asked them what those values were.

 

[Liquid]

Spot on, it's why when the tories were banging on about 'British Cultural Values' it fell apart as soon as anyone asked them what those values were.

An example I somehow missed in my previous post: I have a British passport but I feel singularly Welsh. I'm not oblivious to the legal reality but I'm not attatched to nor do I have affinity for... the rest of it.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm not convinced that Singapore's approach to integration/assimilation is relivent to the UK. Singapore has massive wealth inequality so foreigners moving there are likely to be either the very wealthy, or the very very poor looking for low-paid jobs serving those very wealthy.

 

[UKMikey]

An example I somehow missed in my previous post: I have a British passport but I feel singularly Welsh. I'm not oblivious to the legal reality but I'm not attatched to nor do I have affinity for... the rest of it.

Not to mention the Cornish Celts who are an officially recognised separate ethnic group. The late Bernie Grant once talked identifying with oppressed people like the Irish, Scots and Welsh and said it'd stick in his throat to be called English. I can understand where he was coming from and can't help but feel the same way as my family have never been anywhere near an Angle.

 

[Fezzik]

Judge rules sufficient evidence for 'Soldier F' to stand trial for two Bloody Sunday murders

A former soldier accused of two murders on Bloody Sunday has been formally returned for trial after an attempt to get the case thrown out was refused. He has pleaded not guilty.

news.sky.com

The judge agreed to extend his right to remain hidden after his defence team argued he would be a "prized target" for dissident republicans.

In the digital age anonymity orders in cases like this are pretty stupid, a relic of the past when newspapers really were the only source of news. The person in question was named in the British & Irish Parliaments, his details are freely available online for anyone to find.

 

[UKMikey]

In the digital age anonymity orders in cases like this are pretty stupid, a relic of the past when newspapers really were the only source of news. The person in question was named in the British & Irish Parliaments, his details are freely available online for anyone to find.

Yep, I just looked up the murderous Lance Corporal's name and found it easily.

 

[Liquid]

The case is long overdue.

 

[UKMikey]

More good news:

‘Brexit problem’: UK tap water safety at risk after testing labs shut down

Exclusive: EU countries will share laboratory capacity but UK rules mean products cannot be tested abroad

theguardian.com

If true, it's funny this isn't all over the news for some reason.

 

[Liquid]

I wouldn't worry, UK water companies are famously rigorous and caring.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Good news is that it is getting more attention:

MP calls for first-cousin marriage to be banned

Tory former minister Richard Holden says the children of first cousins are at greater risk of birth defects.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nazir Afzal (one of my legal heroes) has previously stated there is a strong argument for looking at legislating it:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/silence-must-end-call-action-20348860

This has the potential to change many lives for the better.

 

[TheCracker]

To be honest, i never realised it was legal in the first place! - and i've been to Norfolk on several occasions.