Britain - The Official Thread

[Scaff]

Maybe.

And maybe Trump was done after losing to Biden in 2020.

The right here have the MSM and are winning the war on social media. I wish I could be as optimistic as you.

EDIT:



Yes, these sentences are because of sentencing guidelines. No, that doesn't mean we should accept it and not try to instigate change by highlighting how ridiculous the justice system can be.

Let's give a little context here, shall we?

He wasn't sentenced for illegally streaming footie matches, he:

• Made £15k selling illegally modified streaming devices (Amazon Firesticks) to over 500 people.
• Had previous convictions for fraud.
• Was on license at the time of the offense (probation is a term people outside the UK may know better).
• After serving three years for dealing cocaine.

Given the above the sentence doesn't seem out of line at all.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/premier-league-respond-after-man-30355606

 

[HenrySwanson]

Let's give a little context here, shall we?

He wasn't sentenced for illegally streaming footie matches, he:

• Made £15k selling illegally modified streaming devices (Amazon Firesticks) to over 500 people.
• Had previous convictions for fraud.
• Was on license at the time of the offense (probation is a term people outside the UK may know better).
• After serving three years for dealing cocaine.

Given the above the sentence doesn't seem out of line at all.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/premier-league-respond-after-man-30355606

Context too for the US peeps is this is versus the notable recent examples of low/no prison time for demonstrably worse crimes and for providing something a lot of Brits are using (think Napster/Limewire).

We have an overcrowded prison population and still have many languishing in there on IPPs who are also at a higher risk of suicide/self harm; people let out with more "serious" convictions to make room for new inmates; a recent prosecution (and jailing) of someone saying hurty words on the internet compared to a guy doing a fatal hit and run getting a suspended sentence; many, many cases of sexual abusers not seeing the inside of a cell.

Granted, you could say it doesn't seem out of line (although I think subscription services are going to change with how prevalent these Firesticks are) but wow if that Premier League tweet isn't tone deaf. "Two tier Keir" is lazy a lot of the times it's used, but it sure is catchy....

 

[Scaff]

Context too for the US peeps is this is versus the notable recent examples of low/no prison time for demonstrably worse crimes and for providing something a lot of Brits are using (think Napster/Limewire).

How on earth is anyone supposed to know that from your original post?

Even now that's not possible, as a comparison requires much more than a single data point that's been misrepresented.

If your aim was to initiate a discussion into possible sentencing disparities, then present it as such. Use a range of data points (enough to avoid treating outliers as statistical norms), or better still cite a study or paper on it. What will not succeed in doing so is a 'drive-by' style post that doesn't even mention the subject you want to talk about, falls to provide any form of comparison, and is presented inaccurately.

 

[HenrySwanson]

How on earth is anyone supposed to know that from your original post?

Even now that's not possible, as a comparison requires much more than a single data point that's been misrepresented.

If your aim was to initiate a discussion into possible sentencing disparities, then present it as such. Use a range of data points (enough to avoid treating outliers as statistical norms), or better still cite a study or paper on it. What will not succeed in doing so is a 'drive-by' style post that doesn't even mention the subject you want to talk about, falls to provide any form of comparison, and is presented inaccurately.

But that's what's currently happening in the discussion regarding sentences in the UK.

It isn't necessary to say this and provide the backstory on Twitter (where 2TK and Huw Edwards repeatedly trends) and Reddit (where the news stories are discussed and compared without having to keep showing why they are being posted).

Surely it's redundant to link it to past interactions like:

Do you believe in God?

Oh jeez this one with their periodic popping in to talk about a thing being discussed after reading a single post and ignoring all context surrounding it.

www.gtplanet.net

Do you believe in God?

Oh jeez this one with their periodic popping in to talk about a thing being discussed after reading a single post and ignoring all context surrounding it.

www.gtplanet.net

And the state of the criminal justice system in the UK.

The discontent is palpable.

For instance, these are other tweets about the story:





Now, yes, ones that say he got done for only watching have been community noted, but much like the Riots were the turning point in the discourse around a lot of problems in this country, so too was the Huw Edwards sentence.

For Brits in this thread, do you know many people with these Firesticks? I've found that they are insanely popular.

 

[Scaff]

But that's what's currently happening in the discussion regarding sentences in the UK.

It isn't necessary to say this and provide the backstory on Twitter (where 2TK and Huw Edwards repeatedly trends) and Reddit (where the news stories are discussed and compared without having to keep showing why they are being posted).

No-one here is capable of reading minds, if you wish to initiate a conversation then do so in a manner that members can pick it up without having to channel the paranormal.

Surely it's redundant to link it to past interactions like:

Do you believe in God?

Oh jeez this one with their periodic popping in to talk about a thing being discussed after reading a single post and ignoring all context surrounding it.

www.gtplanet.net

Do you believe in God?

Oh jeez this one with their periodic popping in to talk about a thing being discussed after reading a single post and ignoring all context surrounding it.

www.gtplanet.net

And the state of the criminal justice system in the UK.

Unless you expect every member reading your post to have an intimate knowledge of past discussion, no its not redundant at all.

The discontent is palpable.

For instance, these are other tweets about the story:





Now, yes, ones that say he got done for only watching have been community noted, but much like the Riots were the turning point in the discourse around a lot of problems in this country, so too was the Huw Edwards sentence.

Ahh yes, twitter that well known hot-bed of rational and reasoned discussion, and even with that the second tweet does a monumentally better job of being honest about the case than you managed.

For Brits in this thread, do you know many people with these Firesticks? I've found that they are insanely popular.

Once again, the sentence wasn't for owning one of these, nor was it even for selling them alone, all rather pertinent information you omitted to include in your opening post.

I'm going to be blunt, this 'style' of conversation initiation seems to be becoming the norm for you, and it's not acceptable.

 

[Sprite]

@Scaff

Even if this was for selling Firesticks and the rest of this muppets crimes were not a factor, how many different IPs has this chap violated. 1000s which all would mount up to probably more time in prison that he got. Not to mention being taken to the cleaners for costs.

@HenrySwanson using the approach you have to try and get a rise out of people on here it’s tantamount to trolling at its lowest level. If you genuinely wanted a good discussion around the merits on UK sentencing then present all the facts in an impartial way and then you may get a decent chat.

Do I know people who use these firesticks?

Yes

Do I care?

Not really. The image and sound quality is sub par and to me it’s not worth the effort.

Do I think streaming services and others like Sky are over priced?

Yes, but they’re a business, and they create the content so they can charge what they like.

Do I understand why people seek illegal streams of TV shows?

Yes I do, because if you paid for all streaming services then it would cost a fortune.

 

[Famine]

Here's a picture of a cat.

Actually, I was wanting to talk about PETA's ironically high rates of euthanasia in its animal shelters and allegations of them taking people's "outdoor cats" on its belief that animals shouldn't be pets, per this post I made in 2009. OMG I can't believe I have to hand-hold you through this, here's five external articles, Tweets, and Reddit posts of other people's opinions on the matter.

 

[UKMikey]

^Why does everyone on this site hate cats so much? It's like a cult except for me. The outrage is palpable.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff

Even if this was for selling Firesticks and the rest of this muppets crimes were not a factor, how many different IPs has this chap violated. 1000s which all would mount up to probably more time in prison that he got. Not to mention being taken to the cleaners for costs.

And that's without all the backdoor crap that likely comes with these devices, after all it's not like this guy wrote the software that does this.

A friend of mine was considering buying one until I pointed out that they use on-line banking and both work from home, and that using one of these allows a totally uncontrolled device direct access inside their home network. Fortunately they saw reason in that regard.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Morons on Twitter that don't look into things should not be the benchmark for the performance of our criminal justice system.

 

[Fezzik]

^Why does everyone on this site hate cats so much? It's like a cult except for me. The outrage is palpable.

They’ve all been brainwashed by the canine propaganda.

 

[UKMikey]

Morons on Twitter that don't look into things should not be the benchmark for the performance of our criminal justice system.

It's not like "released under constant supervision with the threat of prison if he refuses to cooperate with the Probation service" is equivalent to "pedos are just let walk amongst our children almost at their own disgression (sic)", but why stand in the way of a good rant?

Perhaps Twittering our GTP might not be such a good idea after all.

 

[MatskiMonk]

My favourite is complaining about living in a police state because people are "going to prison for tweeting", then getting absolutely fumin' when people don't suffer capital punishment for looking at a picture.

 

[Fezzik]

Nigel Farage: Donald Trump's team is 'hostile' to Chagos 'surrender'

The Reform UK leader, a top cheerleader for the hard right Republican, branded a deal to give the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius 'an enormous mistake'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So Nigel, we should be letting other countries decide matters regarding our sovereign territories?
Doesn't sound very independent of the UK.

Nige really doing the double agent act - a stooge of both the US and the Russians, though these days they're pretty much the same thing.

 

[HenrySwanson]

@HenrySwanson using the approach you have to try and get a rise out of people on here it’s tantamount to trolling at its lowest level. If you genuinely wanted a good discussion around the merits on UK sentencing then present all the facts in an impartial way and then you may get a decent chat.

There isn't really any discussion. It boils down to: those are the guidelines, end of.

Do I know people who use these firesticks?

Yes

Do I care?

Not really. The image and sound quality is sub par and to me it’s not worth the effort.

Do I think streaming services and others like Sky are over priced?

Yes, but they’re a business, and they create the content so they can charge what they like.

Do I understand why people seek illegal streams of TV shows?

Yes I do, because if you paid for all streaming services then it would cost a fortune.

Armed with that information, is 3 years and 4 months appropriate when you have no jail time for this guy:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teachers-career-tatters-after-found-30351950

Considering our overpopulated prison system, should we be jailing a guy selling Firesticks for that length of time? What does it say for people who consume the worst (Cat A) CSA material out there, providing they don't have a record? Let's look at it another way: we used to have a guy selling dodgy DVDs at my dad's work for years back when pirate DVDs were a thing. If he was found to be doing the recording plus the selling, do you think that warrants a "lengthy" custodial sentence? Do we send more to prison or treat the Firestick guy more leniently?

And then you're seeing the resentment of the supposed "two-tier" justice along ethnic lines:

Spoiler: Language

You can find the full clip of the shouting he's referencing in another tweet.

It's all adding to a pressure-cooker environment and instead of quibbling about etiquette/proper procedure we should be addressing concerns.

Do we discount this story purely because it's from the DM:

Chaos as locals are told migrants 'will be given private healthcare''

The bombshell accusation was made during a fiery public meeting of Trafford Council, in Greater Manchester, and sparked outrage from residents.

www.dailymail.co.uk

At the time of posting it has over 4.5 thousand comments.

Dismissing it won't make it disappear, and Trump's win in America should be a bloody wake-up call that we could very well be isolated internationally, with weaker links to Europe and an electorate that is getting increasingly pissed off.

 

[MatskiMonk]

should we be jailing a guy selling Firesticks for that length of time?

Also, he's not being jailed for that length of time for selling firesticks.

 

[Famine]

Do we discount this story purely because it's from the DM:

Do you... not recall the last time you attempted this particular line of bad-faith? I do, and yet you don't appear to have learned.

Try again, without the dishonesty.

 

[Scaff]

Considering our overpopulated prison system, should we be jailing a guy selling Firesticks for that length of time?

Why are you continuing to present this inaccurately?

 

[UKMikey]

It's not just selling Firesticks, is it? It's conspiracy to defraud, and a repeat offense.

 

[Scaff]

It's not just selling Firesticks, is it? It's fraud, and a repeat offense.

While on licence for dealing coke...

 

[UKMikey]

While on licence for dealing coke...

Trial by media means you listen only to the people complaining about the verdict while ignoring the evidence against the person doing the crime. That it's unnuanced is about the kindest thing I can say about this approach.

 

[Liquid]

Are we still on this? I know Famine already did it but here, I'll make it topical to the case and make it football-related.

Dave Mackay got red-carded for two-footing his opponent.

You're ignoring the fact that Ivor Allchurch got red-carded merely for tugging his opponent's shirt [it was actually for a second yellow] and you're forgetting the time Dixie Dean didn't get red carded when he elbowed his marker. Red cards have become a complete joke and nobody is doing anything about it.

What does any of that have to do with this correctly-issued red card?

Historical domain footballers have been used to protect the innocent.

 

[HenrySwanson]

It's not just selling Firesticks, is it? It's conspiracy to defraud, and a repeat offense.

View attachment 1404767

Also, he's not being jailed for that length of time for selling firesticks.

Yes, he's defrauding the poor and helpless....Premier League.
(Obviously, we know about the aggravating factors, but this is what they've used so it seems appropriate if the victim feels they can say it)

We've got the Archbishop of Canterbury being forced to resign and he likely won't even be investigated and we're banging this guy up for over 3 years.

Think of the difference in who was harmed.

Also, remember:

Do you... not recall the last time you attempted this particular line of bad-faith? I do, and yet you don't appear to have learned.

Try again, without the dishonesty.

What do you think of the DM story? Any ideas on what we can do as a society?

========

I think now is the time to be proactive and galvanise the country into action against the threats we face. In the past, we did this against a common enemy but with views being so polarised it's going to take imagination to unite people to head off the incoming danger.

 

[Scaff]

View attachment 1404794

Yes, he's defrauding the poor and helpless....Premier League.
(Obviously, we know about the aggravating factors, but this is what they've used so it seems appropriate if the victim feels they can say it)

Spot who clearly didn't actually read about the case (while still utterly misrepresenting it).

We've got the Archbishop of Canterbury being forced to resign and he likely won't even be investigated and we're banging this guy up for over 3 years.

Squirrel...

Think of the difference in who was harmed.

Also, remember:

View attachment 1404796


What do you think of the DM story? Any ideas on what we can do as a society?

Do you not get that people, for damn good reasons, don't click through to the Daily Heil.

Find a credible source.

 

[MatskiMonk]

@HenrySwanson

You consume so much hate-bait that you regurgitate it on other forum members, and you get frustrated when they don't suck up this regurgitated hate-bait and declare it as 'tasty'. At this point I'm reasonably sure you're a bot-farm employee who's brief is to demotivate rational thought in favour of the rage-bait you repost from the Twitter-Sewer.

 

[UKMikey]

It's not a crime if you're ripping off rich dudes, right? The guy's virtually Robin Hood with a coke straw. Let's concentrate on asylum seekers receiving private healthcare instead. They obviously don't deserve it and Trafford council must be lying if they say it isn't happening.

At least the red meat portion of my diet is fully covered for today. We should all be more outraged.

/s

 

[UKMikey]

Also, as a discursive gambit "he was too locked up just for selling Firesticks, the headline says so" has got to be up there with the presidential debate's "I know they were eating the cats and dogs because I seen it on TV".

It's like @Liquid's analogy regarding footballers may just as well not have been written as far as the altitude at which it appears to have flown over Henry's head is concerned.

 

[HenrySwanson]

It's not a crime if you're ripping off rich dudes, right? The guy's virtually Robin Hood with a coke straw. Let's concentrate on asylum seekers receiving private healthcare instead. They obviously don't deserve it and Trafford council must be lying if they say it isn't happening.

At least the red meat portion of my diet is fully covered for today. We should all be more outraged.

/s

This isn't the grievance felt by residents.

You can see the problems of catering to the health needs of a large group thrust into a community here:

 

[UKMikey]

As I understand it residents want incoming refugees to join the back of the NHS queue instead of receiving urgent care.

Unfortunately from what I've read the ECHR contains a commitment to provide care to those refugees as a human right. That commitment was incorporated into the Human Rights Act so a government which wanted to reduce this level of care would have to not only leave the convention but revise the act. This might be a tough sell in the Commons as any government which did it would be seen as abusing the rights of those refugees.

According to your video the council has attempted to thread this needle by providing resources for the asylum seekers from a separate pot. The video provides few if any answers as to what it would legally involve to ignore those rights and treat those refugees like UK residents who aren't covered by any such commitment under the NHS.

It sounds like this issue is a lot more complicated than the ragebaity articles by the Mail, Express and GB News that show up on Google are likely to portray it as, especially if refugees are knowingly or unknowingly participating in abuse of the system by receiving free care to which they aren't entitled under the convention and act.

 

[Scaff]

This isn't the grievance felt by residents.

Can you provide a source other than the Daily Mail or even describe the detail itself?

And if you can't find a source outside the Mail, ask yourself what that says about the story.

Also, sit down and ask yourself how we've reached the 'migrants are bad' part of your diatribe routine when you haven't even managed to form a coherent point around the 'be nice to the Robin Hood Coke dealer' part. Starting a discussion with a click-baity drive-buy post is bad enough, but these repeated 'throw another squirrel at them' distractions are borderline unacceptable, and don't help your point at all.

In other news, and apropos of the Daily Mail being a rag utterly underserving of any credibility, may I present to you the hot take that is 'Meghan and Harry made Welby cover up for paedos'. However, we should, of course accept a story from them at total face value about another of their pet targets that @HenrySwanson can't support via another source.

Given that Welby first knew of the offenses in 2013, three years before Harry and Meghan met, it's an interesting leap that somehow involves time-travel, but when did the Mail let a small thing like factual accuracy get in the way of a good racist dog-whistle.