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Another veyron?
Bugatti Veyron Successor: Chiron
- Thread starter Organ-Donor
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gamerdog6482
(Banned)
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- Gamerdog6482
The Veyron can only go so far, for a car that is as old as it is.
Look at SSC. They already replaced the Aero. I'm still hoping that Audi will produce the Rosemeyer, but I doubt it as it is basically a Veyron at heart.
Look at SSC. They already replaced the Aero. I'm still hoping that Audi will produce the Rosemeyer, but I doubt it as it is basically a Veyron at heart.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
No, I understand that, but simple doesn't always mean easy. If it was simple to make things simple, we wouldn't need engineers at all.
I guess I should add to my post that there is of course personal preference involved. In my case, I don't like "artificial" constraints. I've seen terms like "no compromise" used to describe the Veyron. I see it as the opposite. A no compromise car in my mind is something like a race car. You don't have to worry about aesthetics (as much) or how comfortable it is cruising across country, but totally optimizing the design takes a lot of work and can be the source of many headaches. I've been there. Adding a wing to an existing car is hardly extreme, but it sure can create problems. It's worth it to overcome them.
Short version, engineer's car doesn't need to have all the bells and whistles, it just needs to be well engineered.
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I don't see the Veyron that way. I'm no expert on the car or it's engine, but to me it's basically more of the same. It's not the first W engine, it not the first turbocharged engine, it's not the first 16 cylinder car, it's not the first AWD car, it's not the fastest nor the most powerful car ever built (I'm including racing cars since the technical challenges that faced the Veyron would have been faced by racing cars also)..
It may well be the first car to do these things in one package, and production legal.. but the challenges faced weren't new, they were just increased because the numbers of everything were increased, where is the out of the box thinking and innovation? It's a genuine question.. they may well have invented new and better solutions to engineering problems and I just don't know about it... but, it seems like it was "need more power, add more cylinders, need more power, add more turbos, need more cooling, add more radiators etc. etc." Surely good engineering is about achieving more with less, not just achieving more with more.
I suspect the biggest challenge was to get VW to keep signing the cheques. I don't see it as particularly original either, it's just another step in the one-upmanship game, and I can't really see the other auto-makers getting one up on it, not because they can't, but because spending the money is largely a pointless exercise.
Don't get me wrong, it's a very impressive car obviously, but where it triumphs isn't in engineering over challenges.. its in the desire to build something bonkers over financial sense.
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- dar-kos
- Yes, i do own X
Official statement from Bugatti is that they stopped make it Veyron because they already reach 300 cars, that's the number they wanted to make.
And their next car is Caliber. The big Limo, so i don't have a clue where are you getting such weird news. Bugatti already reach they potential with Super Sport by adding another 200hp and make it slightly faster, to stay in the king of speed chair. And beat some American car who toked that crown.
Bugatti next car is Caliber.
And their next car is Caliber. The big Limo, so i don't have a clue where are you getting such weird news. Bugatti already reach they potential with Super Sport by adding another 200hp and make it slightly faster, to stay in the king of speed chair. And beat some American car who toked that crown.
Bugatti next car is Caliber.
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- carracerptp
I say make 2000 HP 👍 
Why not? something has to be the fastest. If money isn't a problem why stop
Why not? something has to be the fastest. If money isn't a problem why stop
gamerdog6482
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Volkswagen loses money whenever someone buys one of these.
Why do they continue? Why don't they charge $4,800,000 for one?
Why do they continue? Why don't they charge $4,800,000 for one?
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- 1,729
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- pdawg731
I corrected it to what I think you meant.
Because the Veyron was never meant to rake in the sales figures, it was made to push the limits car engineering and technology.
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- BasedAckbar
300 MPH is only a year away given the large jump in speed from the Super Sport to this.
- 23,871
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Veyrons already depreciate like nothing else. Taking a £250k loss on a year-old car is one thing, taking a £1m drop would be insane. Rich folk don't get where they are by making appalling investment decisions. No one would buy one at that price.
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
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A delivery-mileage Veyron sold for £517,000 at auction last night. That car lost more money than my house is worth, and the owner didn't even drive it. Veyrons are an irrelevance, even in an entirely irrelevant market segment.
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Wow
i've seen them regularly advertised at the £750k mark, but £517k is ridiculous. Especially when Enzos are now creeping up towards the £1m mark and Mclaren F1's are reportedly now nudging £2m or more.
I suppose it just goes to show that as with all used cars, the price you see them advertised at is rarely what they'll eventually sell for.
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Organ-Donor
I believe that is the actual HP the original Veyron produced (not sure I know it was at least a couple hundred over the original's HP. But in the documentary it said part of the HP was lost in heat. I mean that thing had so much heat pumping out they said in the dyno room it actually melted the ventilation system. O_O
I think the car is very impractical and i would rather have a GT By Citroen road car. I just love the idle of the Citroen (in real life not in GT5). Not to mention the Bugatti Veyron was beaten be what a Areal Atom and quite a few other super cars on UK Top Gear? So it may be the fastest in a straight line (top speed car really). But i know it gets beat off the line buy a 1990s McClaren F1 and gets beat around track. So yeah i consider it a top speed car and nothing else.
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- z-assolluto-7-11
Volkswagen decided to just push things to the limit with the Veyron. Now they are just exploring the limits. For those saying it's not an engineering challenge, well, it is simply because they don't know what will happen beyond those speeds. The tyres might disintegrate, the aerodynamics might not be good enough, what will happen then? And you can't really compare race cars to the Veyron, as the Veyron is pure luxury, weighing at almost 2 tonnes, yet able to achieve very high speeds. And I'm blaming the depreciation on it's hype and image among car enthusiasts.
Now, with this supposedly upcoming SuperVeyron, why? The car is just like an experiment, trying to see how far a production road car can go. That's why they loss money with every Veyron they sold. They are not trying to make a profit, they are just trying to prove they can do and it's possible in a road car. They are going into a very dangerous territory here.
Now, with this supposedly upcoming SuperVeyron, why? The car is just like an experiment, trying to see how far a production road car can go. That's why they loss money with every Veyron they sold. They are not trying to make a profit, they are just trying to prove they can do and it's possible in a road car. They are going into a very dangerous territory here.
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
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It's an experiment, yes. People understand that. The thing is that while it's proven technically viable to build a car with 1000+ horsepower that does more than 250mph, it's not financially so. When the McLaren F1 was built, everyone said it was crazy money, but at no point (to my knowledge) has it proven to be an investment disaster.
Everything financial about the Veryron is a complete miss. And the sums of money involved are staggering. Even the people who actually drive them are getting rid of them because of the punitive running costs.
So, yes, VW can build them. But not for a price that the market will stand. They sell them to a few folk, who all lose horrendous amounts of money in servicing and depreciation. And again, we're talking "horrendous amounts" for people who are used to the fact that a Ferrari 599 drops twenty five grand a year in depreciation and costs a pound a mile to run.
Compare the Veyron to some of VW's other engineering challenges (e.g. the Up!) and tell me the Veyron hasn't been a disaster.
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The Veyron costs £9.40 a mile to run in tyres alone. Not forgetting the £35,000 it costs in wheels every 10,000 miles!
gamerdog6482
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That's not including the ~$100,000 oil changes.
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Wow
i've seen them regularly advertised at the £750k mark, but £517k is ridiculous. Especially when Enzos are now creeping up towards the £1m mark and Mclaren F1's are reportedly now nudging £2m or more.
I suppose it just goes to show that as with all used cars, the price you see them advertised at is rarely what they'll eventually sell for.
Amongst modern supercars, F1s are a rare exception to the depreciation rule.
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- mustang622006
Personally, I would have to re-evaluate any decision to buy a road car from a company that would do something so stupid and wasteful. You would think that they could get a whole lot of press, good press, by tearing up the racetrack instead. Which, given the amount this is costing them and their racing heritage they could probably easily accomplish.
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
They do know. It's hardly unexplored territory, and the car has probably been tested to the extreme in simulations. They've also got the old car as a data mine. Though of course, there are risks involved in doing this with a production road car before anyone else.
That's not all that remarkable. The weight won't do anything to lower the top speed, and with 1000 hp and AWD, good acceleration should come pretty easily.
The challenge would come from making Veyron achieve the required aerodynamic performance while being as aesthetically, Veyron, as it is, and then making sure that the occupants would never know they were going 250 mph without looking out the window or at the speedometer.
Well, I suppose top speed is still the biggest draw when it comes to extreme road cars. No one cares that the Caparo T1 is the fastest thing ever, and unless a driver plans to go to a race track, they'll probably never see 3g in the corners. With a straight line car, you can use plenty of power merging onto a highway, taking off from a light, or just being stupid on an empty (or not empty) road.
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Yeah, we heard you the first time. Have you actually read the article in the OP yet? Because you still aren't saying anything that the article didn't take into account.
I don't follow.
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- Zenith113
MustangManiac
Volkswagen is the most successful car company in the history of existence and you're calling them stupid and wasteful. Tell me, what experience do you have with marketing cars/brands?
You say that a track car would get more good press.
How many people have heard of a Radical SR8? How many people have heard of the Bugatti Veyron?
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Stupid and wasteful. That's the complete definition of automotive marketing in a handbasket.
VW gets to make the Veyron because they're one of the least stupid and wasteful car companies on the planet.
Their profit margin and stock portfolio are so strong that they can buy brands on a whim. Ziiip! Just bought Ducati. For a song.
And yet there is always a method to their madness. In a collapsing European market, VAG is one of the few undeniable winners. They manage the one sportscar company that actually turns a steady profit... Porsche. (Okay, Ferrari is doing well, too). They're the only owners who have managed to make Lamborghini profitable. VAG has the Midas touch.
The Bugatti is an on-paper failure. But it serves as a halo car for the entire brand. A big ol' "mine is bigger than yours" middle-finger salute to every other car maker on the planet. "We are so goddamn rich we can engineer a halo car you dweebs can only dream of." I may not like the Veyron, but I understand why they're making it.
Halo cars ALWAYS lose money. The McLaren F1 did. The Ford GT did. The Nissan GTR did, in its first generation, at least. It's a fair bet the Enzo and Carrera GT did, too. Doesn't matter. The point is that people know the cars exist. Know they're nutso special, and know who made them. That's enough.
VW gets to make the Veyron because they're one of the least stupid and wasteful car companies on the planet.
Their profit margin and stock portfolio are so strong that they can buy brands on a whim. Ziiip! Just bought Ducati. For a song.
And yet there is always a method to their madness. In a collapsing European market, VAG is one of the few undeniable winners. They manage the one sportscar company that actually turns a steady profit... Porsche. (Okay, Ferrari is doing well, too). They're the only owners who have managed to make Lamborghini profitable. VAG has the Midas touch.
The Bugatti is an on-paper failure. But it serves as a halo car for the entire brand. A big ol' "mine is bigger than yours" middle-finger salute to every other car maker on the planet. "We are so goddamn rich we can engineer a halo car you dweebs can only dream of." I may not like the Veyron, but I understand why they're making it.
Halo cars ALWAYS lose money. The McLaren F1 did. The Ford GT did. The Nissan GTR did, in its first generation, at least. It's a fair bet the Enzo and Carrera GT did, too. Doesn't matter. The point is that people know the cars exist. Know they're nutso special, and know who made them. That's enough.
