Buick Verano - On death row

[The87Dodge]

Does anyone know if there will be a Verano replacement? If there is, I'm sure it will be another Opel-based car.

 

[Minty]

Historical image thing, mostly. Buicks of yesteryear had the "Porthole" vents on them well back into the '40s and '50s, and seem to come and go as they please. On some models I think it looks alright, on others, I could certainly go without. I think to some extent, particularly with the crossover/SUVs, it's a way to differentiate them from the GMC lineup at the very least.

I just did some reading and had no idea of the history behind them. Knowing that now I understand why they want to have them, but they just seem like an afterthought in the design.

I wouldn't mind them if they were better integrated into the design, I'd probably really like them, but they look like they were purchased at Pepboy's on the way to the dealer, rather than thoughtfully incorporated into the design to show their heritage. Apparently that's something they plan on addressing in future models, though, so I'm looking forward to that. They look pretty slick on the 2017 Lacrosse, actually:

 

[catamount39]

Does anyone know if there will be a Verano replacement? If there is, I'm sure it will be another Opel-based car.

I'm tempted to buy a Buick and stuff Vauxhall badges/trim pieces on it.

 

[Obelisk]

The SUV thing is getting ridiculous here in the U.S...Over 60% of the customers at my job come in those things. I'm not sure why but the "bigger is safer" stereotype is gaining traction again.

Not to mention Buick and Chevy share an affordable SUV: The Trax/Encore.

I wish cars like the Verano were more popular.

 

[Robin]

It's sad that saloon's are taking such a hammering, it's the same over here. All I see these days are hatchbacks and SUV's and little in between. I'm particularly sad for Buick as I love the marque. The new LaCrosse looks great.

 

[JC_Dude]

Sedans make no sense. They're much longer than hatchbacks, but offer about the same boot space, with much more inconvenient dimensions.

 

[catamount39]

Sedans make no sense. They're much longer than hatchbacks, but offer about the same boot space, with much more inconvenient dimensions.

....I'm sorry what? Just what kind of awful mini-hatchback/sedan conversion did you buy?! Go look at a Mazda6 (especially the 5-door lift back), Camry, 3-series, Fusion and say that again.

 

[JC_Dude]

Any of these as an estate in vastly more practical than the sedan. It makes no sense to buy a sedan, unless you're a VIP and need a limo for representative purposes.

 

[catamount39]

Any of these as an estate in vastly more practical than the sedan. It makes no sense to buy a sedan, unless you're a VIP and need a limo for representative purposes.

 

[Obelisk]

Any of these as an estate in vastly more practical than the sedan. It makes no sense to buy a sedan, unless you're a VIP and need a limo for representative purposes.

Sedans are excellent and functional cars. The main purpose of a sedan is to transport both people and cargo over distance, and hatchbacks/estates allow you to choose only one or the other AFAIK.

 

[JC_Dude]

Sedans are excellent and functional cars. The main purpose of a sedan is to transport both people and cargo over distance, and hatchbacks/estates allow you to choose only one or the other AFAIK.

What do you mean? Estates/hatches have 4 or 5 seats and a huge boot. Much, MUCH more usable than in sedans, because the cargo can go all the way to the roof.

What's so hard to understand? Comapre a Passat Variant and the Limousine. The former has a lot more boot space.

 

[catamount39]

What do you mean? Estates/hatches have 4 or 5 seats and a huge boot. Much, MUCH more usable than in sedans, because the cargo can go all the way to the roof.



What's so hard to understand? Comapre a Passat Variant and the Limousine. The former has a lot more boot space.

1st off, it is possible in some sedans for 5. An actual mid-size to large-size sedan has a boot that's plenty big enough (varying by manufacturer).

2ndly, a limo only adds to the middle, and what does that have to do with anything? The sedan is a practical car, as its meant for 4 people and enough space to hold luggage and groceries. With an estate there's less space, and you have to fold down seats to get more space than a sedan. And as far as I know, you can fit only 4 adults and possibly a child or 2 in an estate with all the seats up. It isn't perfect. A sedan takes advantage of separate cargo and passenger space.

 

[Obelisk]

What do you mean? Estates/hatches have 4 or 5 seats and a huge boot. Much, MUCH more usable than in sedans, because the cargo can go all the way to the roof.

But is that cargo space necessary all of the time?

I drive a sedan to and from work and school, and I cart my friends around in it a lot. You can't do that in a hatchback because the rear legroom isn't good. Estate cars are incredibly practical, I'll give you that, but they're also a bit tall and unwieldy. So let me give you a rhectorical question:

Why would someone buy an estate car if they're only going to use all of the cargo room once or twice? In a sedan, you can just toss stutf in the back seat and be good to go. In any car with a back seat, actually. So why would someone buy an estate car or hatchback when they can buy a cheaper sedan version of the car?

I.E. the base Mazda3 for 2016 is $17,800ish and the hatchback is $18,500. Both have the same amount of cargo space IIRC. Look at the Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus and compare to their sedan counterparts.

Also, what @catamount39 says.

In short, sedans are more versatile and practical with larger groups of people. A hatch is good if you're hauling only 2 people.

 

[JC_Dude]

But is that cargo space necessary all of the time?

I drive a sedan to and from work and school, and I cart my friends around in it a lot. You can't do that in a hatchback because the rear legroom isn't good. Estate cars are incredibly practical, I'll give you that, but they're also a bit tall and unwieldy. So let me give you a rhectorical question:

Why would someone buy an estate car if they're only going to use all of the cargo room once or twice? In a sedan, you can just toss stutf in the back seat and be good to go. In any car with a back seat, actually. So why would someone buy an estate car or hatchback when they can buy a cheaper sedan version of the car?

I.E. the base Mazda3 for 2016 is $17,800ish and the hatchback is $18,500. Both have the same amount of cargo space IIRC. Look at the Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus and compare to their sedan counterparts.

Also, what @catamount39 says.

In short, sedans are more versatile and practical with larger groups of people. A hatch is good if you're hauling only 2 people.

Perhaps in the US sedans are cheaper, but in Europe they're usually more expensive than hatchbacks (if we're talking about C segment cars). In cars like the Mazda 3 sedan and hatch versions have the same platform, same wheelbase, so they have the same amount of legroom. As you mentioned they have the same amount of boot space, but in hatchbacks it's measured up to the parcel shelf and there's a lot of space available above that. As for the price difference, in Ford's case the base hatch is better equipped, dunno about Mazda and I can't change the region on Hyundai's website.

Why would I buy a hatch instead of a sedan? Simple:
-hatchbacks are always shorter (12cm in Mazda 3's case), so they're easier to park and take up less space.
-The boot opening is larger, so it's easier to fit bigger stuff.
-This one is a personal pet peeve of mine, but I hate the fact that every sedan has bare metal in the boot's celling.
-IMO hatchbacks look much better than sedans.

Now to the estates. They're much any taller than sedans. Maybe a couple of centimeters. And unless you're going to track days with it and really push it to the edge, you're not going to notice any diference in handling. Tossing stuff on the back seat is fine if you're just doing groceries, but if you have a partner and 2 kids you can't really do that. And what if you want to go on vacation with them? What if you buy something big and want to transport it in your car? Chances are a sedan won't fit your luggage, but an estate will. I'll give you that they're more expensive, but in day to day use it's not any different, certainly not inconvenient.

1st off, it is possible in some sedans for 5. An actual mid-size to large-size sedan has a boot that's plenty big enough (varying by manufacturer).

2ndly, a limo only adds to the middle, and what does that have to do with anything? The sedan is a practical car, as its meant for 4 people and enough space to hold luggage and groceries. With an estate there's less space, and you have to fold down seats to get more space than a sedan. And as far as I know, you can fit only 4 adults and possibly a child or 2 in an estate with all the seats up. It isn't perfect. A sedan takes advantage of separate cargo and passenger space.

1. I was referring to @Obelisk, who claimed wagons/hatches can't carry both cargo and passengers.

2. Limousine is just what VW calls their sedan. And how the hell does a wagon fit less stuff than a sedan? Simple example:
Passat sedan: 586l
Passat wagon: 650l (and that's up to the parcel shelf, not the roof.)

 

[catamount39]

Perhaps in the US sedans are cheaper, but in Europe they're usually more expensive than hatchbacks (if we're talking about C segment cars). In cars like the Mazda 3 sedan and hatch versions have the same platform, same wheelbase, so they have the same amount of legroom. As you mentioned they have the same amount of boot space, but in hatchbacks it's measured up to the parcel shelf and there's a lot of space available above that. As for the price difference, in Ford's case the base hatch is better equipped, dunno about Mazda and I can't change the region on Hyundai's website.

Why would I buy a hatch instead of a sedan? Simple:
-hatchbacks are always shorter (12cm in Mazda 3's case), so they're easier to park and take up less space.
-The boot opening is larger, so it's easier to fit bigger stuff.
-This one is a personal pet peeve of mine, but I hate the fact that every sedan has bare metal in the boot's celling.
-IMO hatchbacks look much better than sedans.

Now to the estates. They're much any taller than sedans. Maybe a couple of centimeters. And unless you're going to track days with it and really push it to the edge, you're not going to notice any diference in handling. Tossing stuff on the back seat is fine if you're just doing groceries, but if you have a partner and 2 kids you can't really do that. And what if you want to go on vacation with them? What if you buy something big and want to transport it in your car? Chances are a sedan won't fit your luggage, but an estate will. I'll give you that they're more expensive, but in day to day use it's not any different, certainly not inconvenient.



1. I was referring to @Obelisk, who claimed wagons/hatches can't carry both cargo and passengers.

2. Limousine is just what VW calls their sedan. And how the hell does a wagon fit less stuff than a sedan? Simple example:
Passat sedan: 586l
Passat wagon: 650l (and that's up to the parcel shelf, not the roof.)

You can't carry both people and cargo with a wagon. It's impossible to load up the maximum cargo capacity and people capacity. A sedan has set space for people, and set space for cargo. A sedan can do both at once while a hatch/estate cannot, it is a multi-purpose tool, while an estate basically is setup for one or the other.

 

[Obelisk]

You can't carry both people and cargo with a wagon. It's impossible to load up the maximum cargo capacity and people capacity. A sedan has set space for people, and set space for cargo. A sedan can do both at once while a hatch/estate cannot, it is a multi-purpose tool, while an estate basically is setup for one or the other.

Which is what I was trying to tell him earlier.

 

[JC_Dude]

What are you two on about? A wagon with all its seats up has more cargo space than the same model sedan and the same amount of space for passengers.

 

[catamount39]

What are you two on about? A wagon with all its seats up has more cargo space than the same model sedan and the same amount of space for passengers.

No it doesn't. It has the same space, with the same amount of passengers. It's only able to convert to an enormous amount of cargo space by folding everything down or a pair of children in the back by (maybe on some models) putting up the spare seats. Those extra seats are pretty pointless as they're cramped as heck, and most models don't carry them. So there's some extra space in an upwards direction, you can't block the rear window.

 

[JC_Dude]

Look at the example above. The Passat wagon has 11% more space with the seats up + the space above the parcel shelf.

 

[Obelisk]

What are you two on about? A wagon with all its seats up has more cargo space than the same model sedan and the same amount of space for passengers.

I would like to see proper sources to back up this claim - Use the Mazda3, Elantra and one car of your choice and back up your claim without cherry-picking.

 

[mustafur]

I don't understand Americans and their sedan logic, hatchbacks are infinitely more practical because the rear opening is larger you can fold the rear seat down and then the cargo space is MASSIVE, it's not like you are driving everywhere with your car with 5 people and luggage anyway and keep in mind most hatchbacks have a split fold option if you have 4 or 3 passengers making still more space for cargo then a sedan.

Plus a sedan is still 3/4 of a car I would rather an even 3/3 or 4/4 then a missing quarter.

I would like to see proper sources to back up this claim - Use the Mazda3, Elantra and one car of your choice and back up your claim without cherry-picking.

well for starters those cars don't have a Wagon option.

 

[mustafur]

delete

 

[catamount39]

well for starters those cars don't have a Wagon option.

Yes they do, they're sold as "wagons" (hatch really) and sedans here in the US.

 

[mustafur]

Yes they do, they're hatches and sold as sedans here.

Hatchback =/= Wagon.

Wagons have D pillars, Hatchbacks don't.

Also claiming a Sedan has more legroom then a hatchback is flawed if your basing it on the same car, most use the same wheelbase.

I do know of a wagon that has a smaller Wheelbase then the sedan which is the Mazda 6 meaning rear leg space is less, however headroom is more and so is cargo space.

 

[Obelisk]

I don't understand Americans and their sedan logic, hatchbacks are infinitely more practical because the rear opening is larger you can fold the rear seat down and then the cargo space is MASSIVE, it's not like you are driving everywhere with your car with 5 people and luggage anyway and keep in mind most hatchbacks have a split fold option if you have 4 or 3 passengers making still more space for cargo then a sedan.

Plus a sedan is still 3/4 of a car I would rather an even 3/3 or 4/4 then a missing quarter.


well for starters those cars don't have a Wagon option.

In most US spec hatches, you'd have to cut someone's legs off to fit them in the back - particularly if the driver is over 5'6 (which happens a lot). While hatches are practical, it just comes down to user preference. And in the US, size tends to win out and the longer and more general-purpose sedans win out.

 

[mustafur]

In most US spec hatches, you'd have to cut someone's legs off to fit them in the back - particularly if the driver is over 5'6 (which happens a lot). While hatches are practical, it just comes down to user preference. And in the US, size tends to win out and the longer and more general-purpose sedans win out.

But that doesn't make sense if your talking about the same car model just in Sedan vs Hatch form, the Wheelbase in basically every case is the same, infact in most cases space is more for rear passengers in hatchbacks due to increased rear head room.

I can use an example:

I have a Mazda 2 Hatch and my mum has the same car in sedan, rear legroom is the same because the wheelbase is identical and so is the interior length, however my car has more rear head room due to the rear not sloping downwards for the sedan shape, the rear cargo space with seats up is easily a winner for the sedan however if I fold either one, two or both my split fold rear seats i have more and with a larger opening so I can take larger objects as cargo.

My hatchback can fit a clothes drier pretty easily, yet my mums car doesn't even get close unless you leave the rear boot open and tie it down with a rope(i know this because i helped her get one a few months ago and this was literally the dilemma).

 

[JC_Dude]

I would like to see proper sources to back up this claim - Use the Mazda3, Elantra and one car of your choice and back up your claim without cherry-picking.

Sure. All the expamples below are with the seats up and up to the parcel shelves in hatch/wagon bodies.

Mazda 3 (hatch 12cm shorter):
hatch: 364l
sedan: 419l

Hyundai Elantra/GT (hatch 23cm shorter):
hatch: 376l
sedan: 417l

Ford Mondeo (Fusion):
sedan: 383l
wagon: 488l

Audi A6:
sedan: 530l
wagon: 565l

BMW 5 series:
sedan: 520l
wagon: 560l

BMW 3 series:
sedan: 480l
wagon: 496l

Renault Talisman:
sedan: 572l
wagon: 608l

Volvo S/V90
sedan: 500l
wagon: 560l

Skoda Superb:
sedan: 625l
wagon: 660l

Mercedes C Class:
sedan: 430l
wagon: 495l

Mazda 6:
sedan: 483l
wagon: 506l

And just in case you wanted to know how much space is above the parcel shelf- the Elantra GT has 651l of space all the way to the roof.

 

[Obelisk]

Sure. All the expamples below are with the seats up and up to the parcel shelves in hatch/wagon bodies.

Mazda 3 (hatch 12cm shorter):
hatch: 364l
sedan: 419l

Hyundai Elantra/GT (hatch 23cm shorter):
hatch: 376l
sedan: 417l

Ford Mondeo (Fusion):
sedan: 383l
wagon: 488l

Audi A6:
sedan: 530l
wagon: 565l

BMW 5 series:
sedan: 520l
wagon: 560l

BMW 3 series:
sedan: 480l
wagon: 496l

Renault Talisman:
sedan: 572l
wagon: 608l

Volvo S/V90
sedan: 500l
wagon: 560l

Skoda Superb:
sedan: 625l
wagon: 660l

Mercedes C Class:
sedan: 430l
wagon: 495l

Mazda 6:
sedan: 483l
wagon: 506l

And just in case you wanted to know how much space is above the parcel shelf- the Elantra GT has 651l of space all the way to the roof.

This tells me that the parcel shelf is counter-productive. The Mazda3 and Elantra have more space if looking at the hatches with parcel shelves.

So I'll say this: Even if they all have more space and more effective, why are sedans more popular?

 

[mustafur]

Sedans are more popular in the US, not exactly in most of the world.

Plus the parcel shelf is completely removable for larger items so there is no real logical reason to use it when comparing space as that would be comparing all the usable space.

 

[JC_Dude]

This tells me that the parcel shelf is counter-productive. The Mazda3 and Elantra have more space if looking at the hatches with parcel shelves.

The parcel shelf is there to hide what you have in the boot for day-to-day use. If you need the huge cargo area, leave the shelf at home and you're good to go. BTW every hatchback/wagon has a parcel shelf or a blind.

So I'll say this: Even if they all have more space and more effective, why are sedans more popular?

I don't know. In my country people buy more wagons.