Build Log: Solid Lifters High-Def Performance Machine

Solid Lifters
I notice the bad reviews. But, the problem has been recognized by Seagate and there is a fix. Most people still having problems probably don't realize there was a fix and perhaps never updated the drive drivers. The reviews are improving, and I think the gamble is worth it. If not, I'll just return them.

Thanks for pointing it out, though. 👍

EDIT: Eeep! You know what? I just reread the reviews, and it's getting worse. Hmmmm... I think I'll get two 1GB drives and RAID them, but I never used RAID for anything. I guess I have something new to look into.

I'm now going to look into the 'Green' HDD from WD. I know they have a 2GB HDD, but that's three times as much as a 1GB. Too overpriced.
Click to expand...

I would go with the 1 TB or 2 RAIDed or if you have the funds get the 1 TB and use it as storage and get a SSD solid state drive for your OS and other demanding programs. You just cant beat the speed with a SSD.
 
GilesGuthrie
I think you mean "TB"!
Click to expand...

Um... no I didn't. I'm into tiny, tiny HDDs.

:lol:

Western Digital drives have always served me well. The 2TB "green" has been reviewed and benchmarked very well. I'll be putting at least one into my system.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of the 'green' drives because they use less energy, which is a good thing, and they generate less heat which is a concern for me. But, the bad side is, they're slower and 'less performance' than the regular drives. Since I'm putting together a 'performance' PC, I don't see why I should use them at this moment. Plus, the reviews aren't as good as I'd like on the green drive I was looking at.

I'll use them in the future when I need or want to, but probably not right now. I gotta read up more on them.

I think I'll go for the Seagate 1TB Retail HDD with the great review. I think I need all the 'extras' that come with it, since I'm building a new PC from scratch with no used parts from my old PC.


NocturnalPS
I would go with the 1 TB or 2 RAIDed or if you have the funds get the 1 TB and use it as storage and get a SSD solid state drive for your OS and other demanding programs. You just cant beat the speed with a SSD.
Click to expand...

I noticed a few people buy a small HDD, but it's faster? I haven't really reviewed this any farther, but didn't notice it. Is it really that much of improvement to get a more expensive, smaller drive? I'm also not sure how easy it is to use a second 'main' drive and one for storing games, photos, videos, etc. I'm not sure how to set the 'main' drive as default for certain applications, and then use the secondary drive for storage.

So, I'd need three HDD in total: The fast drive for the OS, and what else would I put on this drive? The two 1TB Seagate's for Raid 0 for storage. I guess that's something else I need to look into.


Damn, a lot of good ideas coming from you guys. Thanks! 👍 :)
 
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Yeah, I'm speccing an 80GB solid state drive (the Intel Mainstream), I'll put the OS, apps, Lightroom and Outlook databases on it, plus the pagefile. Seek time is effectively zero, and it can run the SATA interface at full capacity. They're also very low power, silent, and cool.

But expensive.

With that in mind, the "core" storage of documents etc can be done on a slower drive, because the computer's "working" area is on the flash disk. If you buy two drives, and combine them in RAID0, you effectively write half the data to each disk. But you write it (and read it) from both disks at the same time. Performance will be improved by around 40% on average.
 
But GilesGuthrie, what would you do if one of your hard drives crash? You can't do anything because files are split between the two or more hard drives; thus you can't restore the files. If you want to keep your data a RAID 1 system would be more reliable but is a tad slower because the computer is making exact copies of the files on the two or more hard drives. If I had that desktop built I'd rather save all of the data than lose it all in a unfortunate mishap.

Also I would not consider a SSD because of the limited write cycles and of the price of the SSD's currently on the market.
 
GilesGuthrie
Yeah, I'm speccing an 80GB solid state drive (the Intel Mainstream), I'll put the OS, apps, Lightroom and Outlook databases on it, plus the pagefile. Seek time is effectively zero, and it can run the SATA interface at full capacity. They're also very low power, silent, and cool.

But expensive.

With that in mind, the "core" storage of documents etc can be done on a slower drive, because the computer's "working" area is on the flash disk. If you buy two drives, and combine them in RAID0, you effectively write half the data to each disk. But you write it (and read it) from both disks at the same time. Performance will be improved by around 40% on average.
Click to expand...

I added two items to my first post; the new HDD and a SSD HDD. Here is what I added:

Seagate ST310005N1A1AS-RK 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Retail
Model #:ST310005N1A1AS-RK
Item #:N82E16822148321


G.SKILL FM-25S2S-64GB 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail
Model #:FM-25S2S-64GB
Item #:N82E16820231220

I think this should go enough.

I didn't realize adding two HDD in RAID 0 would improve the performance, but it makes sense to me that it would. I know RAID 0 is risky, but I'll have a 750GB backup HDD via eSATA for my really important files, so I'm not worried.


nick09
But GilesGuthrie, what would you do if one of your hard drives crash? You can't do anything because files are split between the two or more hard drives; thus you can't restore the files. If you want to keep your data a RAID 1 system would be more reliable but is a tad slower because the computer is making exact copies of the files on the two or more hard drives. If I had that desktop built I'd rather save all of the data than lose it all in a unfortunate mishap.

Also I would not consider a SSD because of the limited write cycles and of the price of the SSD's currently on the market.
Click to expand...

Limited write cycles should concern me? What does that really mean?

The price is pretty high, but worth it for the performance I'm getting.
 
Write cycles as in how many times the same space can be written over. After all it is flash memory. There is a sort of life to them so I guess it might be a risk of sorts. But you could just go with a SSD for Vista to sit on and most of your more important programs on it as well. Then have a highspeed HDD for less important stuff, and a slower speed HDD for backups on the important stuff if your SSD decides to fail.
 
nick09
But GilesGuthrie, what would you do if one of your hard drives crash? You can't do anything because files are split between the two or more hard drives; thus you can't restore the files. If you want to keep your data a RAID 1 system would be more reliable but is a tad slower because the computer is making exact copies of the files on the two or more hard drives. If I had that desktop built I'd rather save all of the data than lose it all in a unfortunate mishap.

Also I would not consider a SSD because of the limited write cycles and of the price of the SSD's currently on the market.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I'm backing up all my data online to Mozy (mozy.com). $5 per month for unlimited storage. I currently have over 245GB with them. Secondly, I noticed that my house insurance policy contains a clause for up to £2,500-worth of specialist data recovery services. So I'm not actually that concerned about data loss. But I'm quite ruthless with drives. Once I get a whiff that one is failing, it gets replaced.

Have a think about how much your data is worth in the context of how much your hard drive is worth. It could be that the best blend of price, performance and reliability is to have a two-drive system with no RAID! I notice that most desktop motherboards don't seem to support RAID 1+0, which splits the array into two mirrored stripe sets.

bergauk
Write cycles as in how many times the same space can be written over. After all it is flash memory. There is a sort of life to them so I guess it might be a risk of sorts. But you could just go with a SSD for Vista to sit on and most of your more important programs on it as well. Then have a highspeed HDD for less important stuff, and a slower speed HDD for backups on the important stuff if your SSD decides to fail.
Click to expand...

The reason I've selected an Intel SSD is that it is noted for its wear-levelling. Intel claim a one-million hour lifespan for the Mainstream drives, which works out at 114 years. Probably 109 years longer than I need it then.
 
You may want to have a quick read of this before joining the SSD race. Intel did respond to this article stating that the guys doing the test were not doing the same tasks an everyday person would do so the test is complete poppycock, but still its an interesting read none the less.

Long-term performance analysis of Intel Mainstream SSDs
 
Thanks for that. It makes it worth trying to find some performance benchmarks for a pair of WD Velociraptors in RAID0.
 
Pako
What products are you holding out on?
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The RAM, the 295 (though I would like a different model 295 if the reviews are better) and the HDD is not that big of a deal breaker for me, but all are currently out of stock.

The one I'm most waiting for is the RAM. It came in just Monday, and sold out the day after. Again. If I must, I will look for different 2000 RAM modules.
 
Solid Lifters
The RAM, the 295 (though I would like a different model 295 if the reviews are better) and the HDD is not that big of a deal breaker for me, but all are currently out of stock.

The one I'm most waiting for is the RAM. It came in just Monday, and sold out the day after. Again. If I must, I will look for different 2000 RAM modules.
Click to expand...

If you dont want to wait for the 295 to be in stock, you could always SLI 2 GTX260's. Its damn close to what the 295 actually is, and maybe slightly cheaper depending on what clock speeds you go for.
 
opendriver
If you dont want to wait for the 295 to be in stock, you could always SLI 2 GTX260's. Its damn close to what the 295 actually is, and maybe slightly cheaper depending on what clock speeds you go for.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know that's an option, but I don't like the idea. I want one graphics card, and that's it. Plus, the HDMI port on back is what I like. Makes things easier.

Added to my list...

Nippon Labs ICR-BB All-in-one USB +eSATA Card Reader - Retail
Model #:ICR-BB
Item #:N82E16820816001

If you have any suggestions what I can add to my PC, please let me know! :) 👍
 
Solid Lifters
Yeah, I know that's an option, but I don't like the idea. I want one graphics card, and that's it. Plus, the HDMI port on back is what I like. Makes things easier.

*snip

If you have any suggestions what I can add to my PC, please let me know! :) 👍
Click to expand...

4 or 5 of these and a quality fan controller
 
opendriver
4 or 5 of these and a quality fan controller
Click to expand...

I've settled for two of these...

Rexus TopMotor DF121225BH 120mm Case Fan - Retail
Model #:DF121225BH
Item #:N82E16835705040
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Note (Add)
$10.09

Controlled by this...

Scythe KM02-BK 5.25" Bay Fan Controller - Retail
Model #:KM02-BK
Item #:N82E16811998055
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
Out Of Stock
ETA: 3/2/2009 9:22:00 AM
Auto-Notify
Note (Add)
$39.99 -$8.00 Instant $31.99

(Picture at above link doesn't do this controller justice, so...)

98a.jpg


I noticed the fan controller takes only 3 pin fans. I might also have a problem mounting it. My case has 'snap-in-place' 5.25" drivebays and this unit wont fit in those, I believe. Might have to do some mods to my case, which makes it a big turn off for me.
 
I got the little 2 fan controller, 3.5" Scythe controller. Nice, quality build controller. No complaints here. I'm sure their 5 controller setup is equally nice.
 
Well, a bit of bad luck for me. Looks like a few items I wanted are "Deactivated."

What is a Deactivated Item?
When a product is out-of-stock, it may show as "Deactivated" on the item page. This could mean that the item is no longer available and we are searching for a new supplier. However, if an item has reached the end of its product life cycle and will no longer be available at all, the deactivation will be permanent.
Click to expand...

I now have to find a new BDR, graphics card and the RAM hasn't been in stock at all since I made my list!

I'll keep the MB, CPU, FANS, PSU (though I've been thinking of getting one with more watts) and all the other 'pieces of the puzzle' that I have listed. I guess, it's back to searching for new replacement parts.

If there are items you think I should wait for, or consider, don't hesitate to let me know.

:cheers:

EDIT

New GPU and BD drive updated.
 
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This has been awesome ram:
http://corsair.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/vcode=PGCRS/partnum=TR3X6G1866C9DF/

And it's in stock. You wanted 6gb's right?

From my own personal experience, this is great ram. I'm sure the Kingston would be great ram, but I have had kingston in the past (this has been years now) to be very picky with timings and motherboard settings to get to run stable.

This might be worth waiting for:
http://newgskill.web-bi.net/bbs/vie...n&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=58

I would check into OCZ also:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/produc...16000_blade_series_low_voltage_triple_channel
 
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Pako
This has been awesome ram:
http://corsair.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/vcode=PGCRS/partnum=TR3X6G1866C9DF/

And it's in stock. You wanted 6gb's right?

From my own personal experience, this is great ram. I'm sure the Kingston would be great ram, but I have had kingston in the past (this has been years now) to be very picky with timings and motherboard settings to get to run stable.

This might be worth waiting for:
http://newgskill.web-bi.net/bbs/vie...n&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=58

I would check into OCZ also:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/produc...16000_blade_series_low_voltage_triple_channel
Click to expand...

Those look great, and I might go for the Corsair Dom Ram. I planed OC my Kingston choice to 2222 RAM speed, but I bet I could get that with this RAM, too.

Thanks! :cheers:

nick09
You could save yourself some money by overclocking this RAM to 2000MHz.
Click to expand...

I've seen that, but didn't want it due to 3 x 1GB. I want 2GB. I plan to buy a second RAM kit later.
 
Made an addition and deletion to my list. I got rid of the following, and added the later.

Deleted
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Media Center Kit Dual TV Tuner 1213 PCI-Express x1 Interface - Retail
Model #:1213 HAUPPAUGE
Item #:N82E16815116036
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Note (Add)
Save Cancel $149.99


Added

SiliconDust HDHomeRun Network-based Dual Digital HDTV Tuner Ethernet Interface - Retail
Model #:HDHomerun
Item #:N82E16815327005
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Note (Add) EDIT: Added this product link... http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun_atsc


Save Cancel $168.99 -$9.00 Instant $159.99



Also, almost all items are in stock! I'm trying to get them all at once, if I can. The RAM and now the fan controller are the only items that need to come into stock. I might as well get everything else, and get different RAM and the controller someplace else. But, I am benefiting from waiting and being patient. I've waited seven or so years, I can wait another few weeks, or so.
 
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GilesGuthrie
*bump*

Solid, how did you get on with the build? Or what's the status of it?
Click to expand...

opendriver
With him moving to Montana and all, im sure this is the least of his worries.

Still curious to hear the status of this though.
Click to expand...

I've decided to put this on hold. I want to wait for the 300 video card, a MB with the features I want and Windows 7. Also, I hear Cooler Master has an awesome large mid-sized case in the works. It just seems to make sense to wait.

I also changed my mind on the items I have listed. I have different everything and decided not to bother changing them, for now, since I'll probably change my mind yet again.

My current PC is still bothering me (I haven't yet cleaned it out) with temps and the usually long loading times, but I'm still patient. I've waited several years, so again, I don't see why I can't wait another few months. I hope to have everything in by late August or September, if the 300 video card and Windows 7 make it by then. If not, I'll wait until after hunting season, when I'm not that busy to build it.
 
Cool. My own build will be starting at the end of the month, and I was wondering how you'd been getting on. You seemed more ready than I was!
 

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