'Buttkicker' bass alternative - and 5.1 surround sound setup?

[Mr Latte]

the 'LG' ones aren't Logitech

What do you mean?

At the end of the day the ones shown I believe to be better than the Logitec speaker packages under the £100 price point. They will have more features and likely in general be a better sounding setup also typically with remote controls.

 

[sunny189]

What wattage would you recommend to not go under?

 

[ilonioum]

This one looks about the best for the price I have found so far.
See Here
LG HT306SF

Official Page
At this price however all seem (like the Logitecs) to be missing digital inputs.

However I would say this LG unit offers much more for your money and likely no worse come sound quality.

Latte, LG HT306SF is what I have and I'm very impressed with those speakers. I'm planning to remove the sub though as it has no effect at all while I have 2 TST209 next to it

For those who is interested in seeing these mounted on a cockpit click here

 

[sunny189]

Latte, LG HT306SF is what I have and I'm very impressed with those speakers. I'm planning to remove the sub though as it has no effect at all while I have 2 TST209 next to it

For those who is interested in seeing these mounted on a cockpit click here

Does the sub not produce any bass or vibration at all?

 

[ilonioum]

Does the sub not produce any bass or vibration at all?

It does however I have 5 tactile units attached directly to my rig (2 TST209 and 3 Aura Pro Bass) with a total power of 350 RMS + 5 LG speakers from this set.

These tactile units produce so much shaking that the sub is not noticeable and to be frank not needed. However if you are not planning to have tactile in your setup then it should be fine. The sound produced by this set is clear event at very high volume, I have tried 4 other sets in this price range (Yamaha, Sony, Samsung and Onkyo) before getting this. I got it for 165 euros (dealer price) so £100 is a bargain.

 

[Mr Latte]

Latte, LG HT306SF is what I have and I'm very impressed with those speakers. I'm planning to remove the sub though as it has no effect at all while I have 2 TST209 next to it

For those who is interested in seeing these mounted on a cockpit click here

Yes I thought they looked similar, have also seen them in my local Currys.
Nice looking set.

Sunny do not be conned into wattage figures. It is often a ploy and systems regulary use peak audio performance (PMPO). RMS is the figure usually to look at but after 25 years of hifi/Home cinema experience let me say it would be wise to not get suckered into wattage and power figures. Manufacturers use this constantly as a selling point.

Does the sub not produce any bass or vibration at all?

It will but none of these will produce low end frequencies like a tactile unit will. The problem you will face is the sub likely will sound bad and have "booming" where it is being overdriven at high volumes requiring the bass to be lowered or the volume.

As my friend states his tactile drown out the sub with their own deeper vibrations.
Good subs produce a larger frequency range of bass compared to tactile units, while if good quality having a nice bass tactile felt sensation. Often subs can go into mid range frequencies too around 2000Hz or more. Tactile I am aware of the max is 800Hz and on Buttkickers typically 400Hz or lower. Tactile is specifically more for the lowest sound frequencies that produce vibration effects/rumble. It is often used to enchance subwoofer bass too not just as an alternative.

 

[bearair]

can someone comment on using a tactile ( I am attempting a DIY) with a XBOX sphere setup, I am on no budget, can I crack open the sub and run the "tactile in series with the sub.

 

[sunny189]

Yes I thought they looked similar, have also seen them in my local Currys.
Nice looking set.

Sunny do not be conned into wattage figures. It is often a ploy and systems regulary use peak audio performance (PMPO). RMS is the figure usually to look at but after 25 years of hifi/Home cinema experience let me say it would be wise to not get suckered into wattage and power figures. Manufacturers use this constantly as a selling point.


It will but none of these will produce low end frequencies like a tactile unit will. The problem you will face is the sub likely will sound bad and have "booming" where it is being overdriven at high volumes requiring the bass to be lowered or the volume.





As my friend states his tactile drown out the sub with their own deeper vibrations.
Good subs produce a larger frequency range of bass compared to tactile units, while if good quality having a nice bass tactile felt sensation. Often subs can go into mid range frequencies too around 2000Hz or more. Tactile I am aware of the max is 800Hz and on Buttkickers typically 400Hz or lower. Tactile is specifically more for the lowest sound frequencies that produce vibration effects/rumble. It is often used to enchance subwoofer bass too not just as an alternative.

Ok so I think I will go with the lg speakers and sub, will I able to hook it up to my ps3 or via Hdtv?

also I want to get hole of the Aura bass shaker in the uk but can't seem to find one... Anyone know anywhere I can purchase one?

 

[sunny189]

It does however I have 5 tactile units attached directly to my rig (2 TST209 and 3 Aura Pro Bass) with a total power of 350 RMS + 5 LG speakers from this set.

These tactile units produce so much shaking that the sub is not noticeable and to be frank not needed. However if you are not planning to have tactile in your setup then it should be fine. The sound produced by this set is clear event at very high volume, I have tried 4 other sets in this price range (Yamaha, Sony, Samsung and Onkyo) before getting this. I got it for 165 euros (dealer price) so £100 is a bargain.

Do you know where i can get hold of the aura bass shaker in the uk?

 

[Mr Latte]

Can't say I know of a UK Stockist that has them.

Parts Express will have them delivered to you within 3 days from USA if you select the appropriate service. You will also have a customs bill too. Only when your buying multiple does the shipping costs work out better per unit.

So effectively your shipping and customs will take the price of one close to a single "Mini LFE Buttkicker" shown above. Sorry but UK prices suck.

Please note, you will need an additional amplifer for the tactile. It is just like an additional speaker. It may be possible to not use the subwoofer and use the tactile in its place but will have to look at the connections for that LG unit.

The LG will require you to use Red/White audio cables from a console. Plug these into the AUX of the LG and keep the HDMI going to your TV. Your console may require an additional lead to get the Red/White audio output.

can someone comment on using a tactile ( I am attempting a DIY) with a XBOX sphere setup, I am on no budget, can I crack open the sub and run the "tactile in series with the sub.

Doubtful, not recommended. Look at getting a unit like these listed which could run several tactile (not just one) instead of speakers. Care needs to be taken however with the speaker ratings though. Most tactile are 4ohm. Alternatively use suitable mono/sub amplifers and add the tactile/buttkickers.

You can easily use "Optical Splitters" to give you dual digital output from your X360 or PS3 if buying a 2nd Av reciever and decoder. This would mean one digital 5.1 for speakers, one for tactile units for "surround tactile" or call it "directional tactile" that several of us on the forums have implemented. This is much better than having multiple tactile with the same mono signal typically LFE or mixed stereo. With using "Dolby Decoding" again for tactile you get the effect for the tactile unit as the speaker gets the audio.

 

[sunny189]

Can't say I know of a UK Stockist that has them.

Parts Express will have them delivered to you within 3 days from USA if you select the appropriate service. You will also have a customs bill too. Only when your buying multiple does the shipping costs work out better per unit.

So effectively your shipping and customs will take the price of one close to a single "Mini LFE Buttkicker" shown above. Sorry but UK prices suck.

Please note, you will need an additional amplifer for the tactile. It is just like an additional speaker. It may be possible to not use the subwoofer and use the tactile in its place but will have to look at the connections for that LG unit.

The LG will require you to use Red/White audio cables from a console. Plug these into the AUX of the LG and keep the HDMI going to your TV. Your console may require an additional lead to get the Red/White audio output.



Doubtful, not recommended. Look at getting a unit like these listed which could run several tactile (not just one) instead of speakers. Care needs to be taken however with the speaker ratings though. Most tactile are 4ohm. Alternatively use suitable mono/sub amplifers and add the tactile/buttkickers.

You can easily use "Optical Splitters" to give you dual digital output from your X360 or PS3 if buying a 2nd Av reciever and decoder. This would mean one digital 5.1 for speakers, one for tactile units for surround tactile that severl of us on the forums have implemented.

Thats annoying, so any type of shaker i want to use. Im going to need to buy an amplifier also?

Is there any sort of shaker or setup for which I dont need an amp

 

[Mr Latte]

Sorry thats how it is, you need to amplify the thing.

The Buttkicker Gamer is about £150 with its own amp and powers no speakers only the tactile.

See how much you have learned today if nothing else.

 

[sunny189]

Sorry thats how it is, you need to amplify the thing.

The Buttkicker Gamer is about £150 with its own amp and powers no speakers only the tactile.

See how much you have learned today if nothing else.

Yeah I've learnt alot 👍 , How about I buy a cheap surround sound with an amp and buy a bass shaker and connect that to the surround sound amp? would that work??

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah I've learnt alot 👍 , How about I buy a cheap surround sound with an amp and buy a bass shaker and connect that to the surround sound amp? would that work??

It might be possible to do a d.i.y or be able to replace the sub with a tactile unit. Some of these all in one units have specific plugs for the cables.

In theory without seeing it may be possible to use the sub cable but connect it to the shaker. We just have to be careful that the ohm rating for the sub speaker is similar. We do not want to put too much strain on the amplifer unit or harm it.

Edit:
Just notice the LG uses 8ohms

The Shakers are usually 4ohms so you would have to be careful with the volume not to cause any harm in the amplifer overheating. Ideally two shakers wired in parallel would produce the matching 8ohms.

I have used 8ohm amplification with 4ohm load tactile in the past myself with no problems on the amplifer I had. However I would not be resoponsible and say to anyone while it may not be a problem I should not be held responsible if someone was to do so and had a problem or faulty amplifer/tactile as a result of such.

 

[VINCE__]

Dual Gamer 2's with surround added seems so less complicated. Latte we talked about this earlier last year and I still don't quite get it.

 

[Mr Latte]

Dual Gamer 2's with surround added seems so less complicated. Latte we talked about this earlier last year and I still don't quite get it.

Hi Vince my friend...

Going the Buttkicker route is simple and is why it sells so well.

The main issue with Buttkickers is that you cannot get "stereo tactile" without having to buy two units like you have. Alternatively a typical stereo amplifer used with 2x tactile units (whatever brand) produces stereo tactile in one amplifer box.

You just have to be careful just like speakers to match ohm ratings of the amplifer with the tactile. Usually 4ohms is what most tactile use. So you want an amplifer that has 4ohms or maybe even 6ohms. Some allowance isnt usually a problem.

Going fancy with multiple tactile units and using "Surround Decoding" requires any form of unit that can decode a "Dolby Digital" or "DTS" sound source into a seperate individual channel. A headphone amp for example could do this, but you need then individual channel outputs that can in turn be amplified for each tactile unit.

Often these are called a "surround decoder" as it takes an optical digital connection and decodes it having outputs in either 3.5mm (like PCs) or RCA connections:

Left
Right
Center
L Surround
R Surround
Sub / LFE

Amazon etc or places would have affordable decoders these days. I need to do a future guide that shows all the options/possibilities and one will appear over on Simology in the future.

 

[sunny189]

Im sure someone will chime in with the aura bass shaker. its essentially the same as a buttkicker but cheaper and not quite as powerful. so people mainly use it for the more suble effects like engine rumble, butnot road bumps. the buttkicker gamer is easy and effective, i've had no probs with mine but if i had more money i'd get a buttkicker LFE and shake the poo out of my rig
my point is the buttkicker is worth the 130 bucks including amp

how much is it with the amp

 

[sunny189]

Mr latte I just heard that the 5.1 speakers don't produce 'true 5.1 surround sound'
When I buy the speakers and set them up will it just be the same sound coming out of each speaker or will the sounds actually be split giving a 'true surround sound' ? :S

and would you recommend setting it up through my ps3 or through the hdtv?

 

[Mr Latte]

Of course not as the unit does not have a digital input like was put to you on the Sony unit.

This is called matrixed audio. The Logitech is the same my friend. Also surround headphones are the same in that they reproduce 5 or 7 channel surround with only a "stereo input" via (Digital Signal Processing = DSP). It is not true surround sound in a sense but processed via clever processing. First introduced in approx 1987 err I think with surround sound VCR's and developed over the years.

It would however still sound good but like I stated if you want the better or real "Digital Surround" you need to use a source with a digital input.


Regards the comment from "lemanfantastic" he is incorrect about the Aura Pro/Buttkicker comparison.
The Buttkicker Gamer Tactile unit can sustain upto 400w. However and here is the con. The Gamer II amplifers are only 90watt. Yet they are only 2ohms so that means approx only 45watts of output would go to the tactile unit being 4ohms.

Read the customer comments below on the Aura Pro however many people on these forums have them.
Here

 

[sunny189]

Of course not as the unit does not have a digital input like was put to you on the Sony unit.

This is called matrixed audio. The Logitech is the same my friend. Also surround headphones are the same in that they reproduce 5 or 7 channel surround with only a "stereo input" via (Digital Signal Processing = DSP). It is not true surround sound in a sense but processed via clever processing. First introduced in approx 1987 err I think with surround sound VCR's and developed over the years.

It would however still sound good but like I stated if you want the better or real "Digital Surround" you need to use a source with a digital input.


Regards the comment from lemanfantastic he is incorrect about the Aura Pro.
The Buttkicker Gamer Tactile unit can sustain upto 400w. However and here is the con. The Gamer II amplifers are only 90watt. Yet they are only 2ohms so that means approx only 45watts of ouput would go to the tactile unit.

That's a shame.. So really there is not point in buying a 5.1 speaker system because its not actually going to produce 'true surround sound' ... and it's going to have the same sound coming out of each speaker.. is there any cheap ones with an input?

 

[sunny189]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcpy5FpW_7M

According to that link the logitechs in that video produce true surround sound... with dedicated channels for different sounds or something...?

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes their is plenty of point as you still get a really good surround sound experience and many here will tell you so.

No you do not get the same from each speaker my friend.
Google things like "Dolby Pro Logic" and often most of these units will have "Dolby Pro Logic II X" (note X) decoding.


Here I am beginning to feel like a teacher, lol....
The Power Of The Internet
Dolby Pro Logic

We now have upto "Z" decoding which also can add an aparent height depth perception into audio front effects.

 

[Leemon]

@ MR. Latte:

I have this AV reciever : http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/technics/sa-dx950/prd_126800_2718crx.aspx

I bought it before 6 years or something like that. I have 5 speakers ( all except sub).

Can i buy aura pro shaker and connect it straight to the AV reciever? If i can, i must buy 2 or something like that. I have very little knowledge regarding this theme!

Thanks

 

[sunny189]

Yes their is plenty of point as you still get a really good surround sound experience and many here will tell you so.

No you do not get the same from each speaker my friend.
Google things like "Dolby Pro Logic" and often most of these units will have "Dolby Pro Logic II X" (note X) decoding.


Here I am beginning to feel like a teacher, lol....
The Power Of The Internet
Dolby Pro Logic

We now have upto "Z" decoding which also can add an aparent height depth into audio front effects.

Thanks alot for you help man I think I still would have been stuck
So yeah now knowing that it WILL have different sounds from each speaker Im cool with that.

I've just seen these 'Logitech X-540'
and they seem the best speakers for me, even has a wired control for bass volume and 'matrix'

 

[Mr Latte]

@ MR. Latte:

I have this AV reciever : http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/technics/sa-dx950/prd_126800_2718crx.aspx

I bought it before 6 years or something like that. I have 5 speakers ( all except sub).

Can i buy aura pro shaker and connect it straight to the AV reciever? If i can, i must buy 2 or something like that. I have very little knowledge regarding this theme!

Thanks

You sure can.
Additionally many older amps have 4ohm switching on the back or via their menus. Look up your manual.

You could have full 5 channel tactile if you wanted.
The only thing your amp doesnt do (like most) is amplify the subwoofer (LFE) output. You could add a seperate amp for that.

Their is a group of us that will be working together to help people like yourself that will become "Tactile Curious". See one of my sigs for a link their.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks alot for you help man I think I still would have been stuck
So yeah now knowing that it WILL have different sounds from each speaker Im cool with that.

I've just seen these 'Logitech X-540'
and they seem the best speakers for me, even has a wired control for bass volume and 'matrix'

I can send you an invoice later for the help...

It is your choice the LG imo is a better unit with more features. Just read into the specs, download the manuals. My own money wouldnt be going on the Logitech models, put it that way.

 

[Leemon]

You sure can.
Additionally many older amps have 4ohm switching on the back or via their menus. Look up your manual.

You could have full 5 channel tactile if you wanted.
The only thing your amp doesnt do (like most) is amplify the subwoofer (LFE) output. You could add a seperate amp for that.

Their is a group of us that will be working together to help people like yourself that will become "Tactile Curious". See one of my sigs for a link their.

Then if I order one Aura pro bass shaker i can connect it to a sub out on my AV reciever!

On my speaker is writen that they are working on 8 ohms ( mission model 700).

If I dont decide to buy aura shaker, can i buy passive sub ( its cheaper than active)?

 

[lemansfanatic]

Then if I order one Aura pro bass shaker i can connect it to a sub out on my AV reciever!

On my speaker is writen that they are working on 8 ohms ( mission model 700).

If I dont decide to buy aura shaker, can i buy passive sub ( its cheaper than active)?

He said yes you can connect it to your sub out, but only to get a signal, but your receiver wont amplify the signal so you still need a seperate amplifier to power the transducer

 

[lemansfanatic]

Basically your average home thester receiver wont power a tactile unit, its just where the signal starts out, then goes from the receiver to a dedicated amp for the transducer, then directly to the transducer itself. you need all three units unless your receiver has a powered sub out (which most dont)

 

[Mr Latte]

Sorry was busy at work for a bit.

Indeed the LFE on most Av Recievers / Amplifers is not a powered output.
However if your interested in tactile you can get good effects without a dedicated LFE unit and add one later.

Parts Express have a very popular subwoofer mono amp.
Several people on these forums are using them and they seem to be good.
You simply connect this to the sub out of your own Reciever and then connect your tactile to the new amp.

This Dayton unit

Aura Pro tactile

I would recommend you consider purchasing 1x sub amp and possibly 3x "Aura Pro" units.
Connect these as L/R & LFE out for a 2.1 tactile experience. If you have the extra money then I stongly advise to get just the two Aura Pro for L/R and the Buttkicker Advance BK4 for the LFE as it really puts out a nice strong wallop of tactile performance and is better for the LFE effects.

Buttkicker BK4 Amazon

I reckon you will be impressed even blown away with such a combination.

Later you could add a "Center" and "Surround" tactile your amp already has the channels.
Your racing games will never feel the same again.


* Please note just to be certain their is no confusion.
You just cannot add a tactile unit and connect it in with a speaker that is already connected into any AV Reciever. We are talking about "tactile" having its own seperate amplification which needs its own audio input source connected from your consoles/PC.